Solo guitar tune #1 - Days of Wine and Roses

**mr. beaumont** · 02-01-2018, 09:57 PM

Well, I wanted to get one more in too...

I know some people who are really cool, but they have lame inspirational stuff posted all over their house...one thing I always give them crap about is a wall hanging that says something about "dance like nobody's watching."

Well, this is "play like nobody's listening

"

**alltunes** · 02-02-2018, 08:51 AM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

That is great...being a flatpicker I love the plectrum approach. I suppose you are thinking melody; chord tones and supporting bass notes all at the same time?

**mr. beaumont** · 02-02-2018, 10:50 AM

Originally Posted by alltunes

That is great...being a flatpicker I love the plectrum approach. I suppose you are thinking melody; chord tones and supporting bass notes all at the same time?

I guess that's tough for me to answer, as I'm trying my damndest not to think at all here (you can hear clearly when I do think a bit, it's when things get unsteady!)

Melody is always the top thing for me. So I'm listening to the top line always, trying to move it logically to where I hear it going. I don't prehear every note, more like "touchstones," I hear the "important notes" I want to get out. I'm a bit on auto-pilot on what goes on below. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it gets rote, stock moves and shit. It's tough to be aware of so much at once...but I'm working on it...thanks for listening.

**PaulW10** · 02-02-2018, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

Well, I wanted to get one more in too...

I know some people who are really cool, but they have lame inspirational stuff posted all over their house...one thing I always give them crap about is a wall hanging that says something about "dance like nobody's watching."

Well, this is "play like nobody's listening

"

Wow Jeff that was just excellent and very enjoyable to watch. Again I really like it hearing the melody floating in a solo improv like that. I want to work on that aspect of my playing.

**sunnysideup** · 02-03-2018, 12:02 AM

So far we haven't had any modulation (unless I missed it).

Doesn't Mancini modulate up a half-step?

Bill Evans did at least 2 versions, from memory they both modulate.

Joe & Ella modulate.

Matt Otten does a very thoughtful version which modulates F - Ab if remember correctly, not strictly a solo performance, but the back track is so low it could easily be.

**TLerch** · 02-03-2018, 01:38 AM

F to Ab is the Bill Evans Modulation

**sunnysideup** · 02-03-2018, 03:13 AM

Thanks for that Tim.

I guess most of us are using the Ab pitch collection for Bbm to Eb7 in bars 7 and 8, so I guess it's a logical choice. Any other reasons why Bill might chose Ab?

Love your takes by the way.

**TLerch** · 02-03-2018, 03:30 AM

Here is an up tempo example of the common Bill Evans key change. The second 16 bars are in Ab (make note that my guitar is tuned down 1/2 step so I'm playing in E and G sorry) I think Sunnysideup might have a good idea about the iv bVII of F suggesting the new key acting as ii and V7 of Ab .
I hope you all enjoy this quick version and forgive me if I'm over sharing, I have the weekend off and I'm enjoying doing a little welcomed pondering.

all the best

**TLerch** · 02-03-2018, 08:05 PM

i think it is colloquially referred to the "Bill Evans Modulation" because he always seemed to play the tune with that modulation. I think it wouldn't be correct to refer to any min 3rd modulation on any tune in this way. There are also quite a few tunes that have a maj 3rd mod already written into the tune by the composer. It certainly gives the tune a lift, and of course you modulate back to F at the top of the form.

Tim

**rlrhett** · 02-03-2018, 08:20 PM

So where is the modulation? At the “through a door marked ‘never more’”? Or as a whole chorus?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

**sunnysideup** · 02-03-2018, 09:54 PM

Assuming the key of F, there’s a temporary new key centre of Ab over Bbm to Eb7 (they are the ii-V of Ab). This is not a full modulation.

Modulations from memory:

Manicini modulates up a half-step after a full chorus or two of AB¹AB².
Matt Otten plays the A sections in the key of F and the B sections in the key of Ab.
I haven’t listened to Bill’s version for a while or analytically, so I'm not sure if Matt Otten is following Bill's changes exactly (Matt refers to it as Toots Thielemans' version, and I think Toots does a version with Bill, so the history gets a bit complicated).

I’ve tried a version modulating up a b3 for each section = eg F, Ab, B, D in one chorus, taking you back to F for the start of the new chorus.

Playing along with the recorded versions is the best way to find out. At least for old guys like me who started before the deluge of jazz literature hit us :-)

**TLerch** · 02-03-2018, 11:04 PM

In my latest version posted above, based on Bill Evans tendency to play it this way, the modulation is on the last 16 Bars to the key of Ab. Then it would modulate back to F at the top of the form.
in bar 15-16 I played a quick ii V of F then a quick ii V of Ab all chords get two beats each, then continued to play the theme in the new key.
In Henry's orchestral version he does a neat modulation after playing the entire form in F they do a little rumba beat and play a bar each of Fmaj7 Ebmaj7 Db7 Db7 which becomes the V7 of the new key of Gb then off they go. there is also a really sweet coda that goes something like Gbmaj7 Cbmin7 Abmin7 G7#11 Gbmaj7
Tim

**TLerch** · 02-03-2018, 11:23 PM

here is an Ireal chart with the modulation to Ab

**christianm77** · 02-04-2018, 11:24 AM

I read a book years and years ago by a Hungarian theorist Erno Lendvai called 'symmetries of music' - he said that the modulations by minor third have a quality of sameness to them (because of diminished symmetry IIRC) and that moving up a minor third could create added intensity without the harmony having felt as moving away from the tonic. Listening to these changes, I certainly get that feeling.

It's quite tempting to try this with lots of standards.

**christianm77** · 02-04-2018, 11:27 AM

Kotta.info – Lendvai: Symmetries of Music

Take a look at the page about the Axis system - some interesting potential reharms for jazzers - some well known (Barry's brothers & sisters, Martino, dim symmetry etc, parallel minor.)

But other ideas, too.

EDIT: This book appears to be out of print, but I might be able to find my copy somewhere... Anyway, for the interested there is a wikipedia page Axis system - Wikipedia on his harmonic ideas.

**TLerch** · 02-04-2018, 12:46 PM

Christianm77,
One of my favorite ways to modulate a minor third goes something like this,. In the last few bars of a tune that has a iii VI7 ii V7 turn around, play iii VI7 ii V7 iii VI7 iv bVII7 which then becomes the ii and V of the new key. It utilizes the common tone of the 4th degree very nicely, do it 3 times and come back to the original key. kind of a fun way to make a long gig a little more adventurous.

cheers

**sunnysideup** · 02-05-2018, 08:51 PM

Thanks Paul.

Actually most of these voicings are vanilla or close to. It took me under an hour to get them, and that was using this method for the first time.

And I think none of the voicings is/are too advanced for any of the posters so far, including the one or two people who have expressed concerns that this group is becoming an advanced playing group.

Wes's statement of the DOWAR theme shows that you don't need "advanced" playing to make beautiful music. Of course some of Wes's stuff is mind-bogglingly difficult.

It does raise the question though, how often should we chose a new tune. If this group is going to be a real study group I don't see how it can go faster then the Practical Standards group, which often uses backtracks and is a showcase group not a study group.

**John A.** · 02-06-2018, 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by PaulW10

Thanks for posting this Sunnysideup, and to Gilles Rea. I think seeing and hearing these innovative and special voicings and the way someone like Wes approached it is really informative and useful.

I don't think there's such a thing as "special voicings," except maybe some of the stuff that a George Van Eps or Ted Greene (or Tim Lerch) did with huge stretches and barres across multiple frets. Otherwise, it's just voicings. Wes used almost exclusively 3 and 4-note chords on the top 4 strings that all of us know. There are things Wes did that most of the rest of us will never be able to reproduce. But that's to be found in the fluidity, groove, and nuance of what he did, and the way he applied a relatively small number of building blocks to great variety, not the difficulty or unusualness of the building blocks themselves. I think the big lesson in that for us mortals is to work with what we know, and not to be too caught up in the chase for magic chords and scales.

John

**PaulW10** · 02-06-2018, 01:17 PM

Originally Posted by John A.

I don't think there's such a thing as "special voicings," except maybe some of the stuff that a George Van Eps or Ted Greene (or Tim Lerch) did with huge stretches and barres across multiple frets. Otherwise, it's just voicings. Wes used almost exclusively 3 and 4-note chords on the top 4 strings that all of us know. There are things Wes did that most of the rest of us will never be able to reproduce. But that's to be found in the fluidity, groove, and nuance of what he did, and the way he applied a relatively small number of building blocks to great variety, not the difficulty or unusualness of the building blocks themselves. I think the big lesson in that for us mortals is to work with what we know, and not to be too caught up in the chase for magic chords and scales.

John

Yes good points John. Some of the voicings in the transcription were definitely new to me so I learned something from reviewing them. However I guess a better word I could have used instead of "special" is "pleasing" as I'm sure the voicings in the transcription are common to many or most of the players here.

I see what you're saying about "fluidity, groove, and nuance" of his playing and to work with what we know when approaching this art. A word I try to keep in my brain when playing is "musically". After all the point of all this is to make music the player and others will enjoy. It doesn't need to be over the top difficult to be successful.

**sunnysideup** · 02-06-2018, 08:00 PM

@PaulW, as per my previous point - a study group based on solo performance cannot reasonably be expected to go faster than a showcase group that uses backtracks - ie Practical Standards - which has a new tune every month.

Maybe people aren't posting because they are working on arrangements, maybe they've lost interest. Who knows? Personally, I've been waiting for yours :-)

A long while back I did a standard a day - this was a quick run through of the changes and the melody. It was a very useful way of determining common patterns, ear-training and reading. But it wasn't about constructing a solo performance.

Maybe "study group" is the wrong designation for this group.

**diminix** · 02-07-2018, 08:00 AM

Took this thread as an impuls to try my first chord melody. I was hoping to find out how a CM is created while doing it... Well, that was a failure--all I did was trying to come up with any chord that had the melody note on top and didn't sound too bad, somehow include some of the notes in the harmony of the bar. Realized that my resulting chord grips are almost impossible to grab, even more when changing to the next impossible grip. Filled random notes to help me change from one chord to the next, lost the overview of melody, form, rhythm, time. It just developed into something I didn't intend to make (and barely can stand to listen too). I didn't expect CM to be so hard...

The real horror began in the attempt to record it. I have bought a used Sennheiser e609, and tried to take the output of my amp into my Galaxy tab via a steinberg UR12 and put that into the video camera app. It took me days to solve uncountable problems with setting up the tab for recording. In the end I gave up after realizing that I couldn't get the USB LED on the UR12 to glow (connected to the tab via USB OTG). Took the audio interface to my office and connected it to the PC--where the recording software cannot be installed. Took audacity instead.

While trying to record with that setup I realized that I am unable to play what I have created without error. It took at least two dozen attempts until I gave up in despair. Obviously I do not have the least talent for doing this. The resulting soundtrack is a wreck, too quite, too much noise, so many screws to turn, just left it as it is.

And if all that wouldn't be enought--the finish is realizing that an MP3 file cannot be published here. So: create u-tube account and channel, find out how to make a video from an audio track, etc. What a f**k! Just wanted to get my feet wet with chord melody... Guess I need some time and distance to guitar and CM to reanimate myself.

Robert

**Gramps** · 02-07-2018, 08:33 AM

Originally Posted by diminix

Took this thread as an impuls to try my first chord melody. I was hoping to find out how a CM is created while doing it... Well, that was a failure--all I did was trying to come up with any chord that had the melody note on top and didn't sound too bad, somehow include some of the notes in the harmony of the bar. Realized that my resulting chord grips are almost impossible to grab, even more when changing to the next impossible grip. Filled random notes to help me change from one chord to the next, lost the overview of melody, form, rhythm, time. It just developed into something I didn't intend to make (and barely can stand to listen too). I didn't expect CM to be so hard...

The real horror began in the attempt to record it. I have bought a used Sennheiser e609, and tried to take the output of my amp into my Galaxy tab via a steinberg UR12 and put that into the video camera app. It took me days to solve uncountable problems with setting up the tab for recording. In the end I gave up after realizing that I couldn't get the USB LED on the UR12 to glow (connected to the tab via USB OTG). Took the audio interface to my office and connected it to the PC--where the recording software cannot be installed. Took audacity instead.

While trying to record with that setup I realized that I am unable to play what I have created without error. It took at least two dozen attempts until I gave up in despair. Obviously I do not have the least talent for doing this. The resulting soundtrack is a wreck, too quite, too much noise, so many screws to turn, just left it as it is.

And if all that wouldn't be enought--the finish is realizing that an MP3 file cannot be published here. So: create u-tube account and channel, find out how to make a video from an audio track, etc. What a f**k! Just wanted to get my feet wet with chord melody... Guess I need some time and distance to guitar and CM to reanimate myself.

Robert

Ok, Now you've done some of the heavy lifting. Learning doesn't always come easy but the second, third and fourth time you work out a CM will each be easier. Hang in there.

You can simplify recording by just turning your smartphone towards yourself and videoing it. (You're not making a record, just a sketch of what you're working on.)

BTW. Nice track. (Not a failure)

**matt.guitarteacher** · 02-07-2018, 09:45 AM

Originally Posted by diminix

Took this thread as an impuls to try my first chord melody. I was hoping to find out how a CM is created while doing it... Well, that was a failure--all I did was trying to come up with any chord that had the melody note on top and didn't sound too bad, somehow include some of the notes in the harmony of the bar. Realized that my resulting chord grips are almost impossible to grab, even more when changing to the next impossible grip. Filled random notes to help me change from one chord to the next, lost the overview of melody, form, rhythm, time. It just developed into something I didn't intend to make (and barely can stand to listen too). I didn't expect CM to be so hard...

The real horror began in the attempt to record it. I have bought a used Sennheiser e609, and tried to take the output of my amp into my Galaxy tab via a steinberg UR12 and put that into the video camera app. It took me days to solve uncountable problems with setting up the tab for recording. In the end I gave up after realizing that I couldn't get the USB LED on the UR12 to glow (connected to the tab via USB OTG). Took the audio interface to my office and connected it to the PC--where the recording software cannot be installed. Took audacity instead.

While trying to record with that setup I realized that I am unable to play what I have created without error. It took at least two dozen attempts until I gave up in despair. Obviously I do not have the least talent for doing this. The resulting soundtrack is a wreck, too quite, too much noise, so many screws to turn, just left it as it is.

And if all that wouldn't be enought--the finish is realizing that an MP3 file cannot be published here. So: create u-tube account and channel, find out how to make a video from an audio track, etc. What a f**k! Just wanted to get my feet wet with chord melody... Guess I need some time and distance to guitar and CM to reanimate myself.

Robert

Nice tone and a lot of nice voicings. Congrats on getting your first one done. It all gets easier after that. Better than many "firsts" I'm sure.

**alltunes** · 02-07-2018, 09:59 AM

Sounded very good to me Robert.

I got sidetracked from DoWaR after Chris Whiteman posted that Blue Monk solo guitar vid. Now I'm back continuing to flesh out my "Roses" arrangement currently trying to incorporate some of the Wes moves of which there are many good ones.

I think we all knew it but this thread proves there are infinite ways to play a tune on the guitar.

"Six strings this way 12 frets that way and a world of mystery in between" paraphrasing Keith Richards

**lawson-stone** · 02-07-2018, 11:00 AM

Originally Posted by diminix

Took this thread as an impuls to try my first chord melody. I was hoping to find out how a CM is created while doing it... Well, that was a failure--all I did was trying to come up with any chord that had the melody note on top and didn't sound too bad, somehow include some of the notes in the harmony of the bar. Realized that my resulting chord grips are almost impossible to grab, even more when changing to the next impossible grip. Filled random notes to help me change from one chord to the next, lost the overview of melody, form, rhythm, time. It just developed into something I didn't intend to make (and barely can stand to listen too). I didn't expect CM to be so hard...

The real horror began in the attempt to record it. I have bought a used Sennheiser e609, and tried to take the output of my amp into my Galaxy tab via a steinberg UR12 and put that into the video camera app. It took me days to solve uncountable problems with setting up the tab for recording. In the end I gave up after realizing that I couldn't get the USB LED on the UR12 to glow (connected to the tab via USB OTG). Took the audio interface to my office and connected it to the PC--where the recording software cannot be installed. Took audacity instead.

While trying to record with that setup I realized that I am unable to play what I have created without error. It took at least two dozen attempts until I gave up in despair. Obviously I do not have the least talent for doing this. The resulting soundtrack is a wreck, too quite, too much noise, so many screws to turn, just left it as it is.

And if all that wouldn't be enought--the finish is realizing that an MP3 file cannot be published here. So: create u-tube account and channel, find out how to make a video from an audio track, etc. What a f**k! Just wanted to get my feet wet with chord melody... Guess I need some time and distance to guitar and CM to reanimate myself.

Robert

Gosh it doesn't have to be so hard to do. Sometimes I just plug a decent USB mic into my iPhone, put the phone on a stand, put the mic in front of the amp, hit record (video) and play. We're not making commercial CDs here, just posting the results of our attempts to play the tune.

your tone is beautiful, so whatever you did, it sounds great. Your chord voicings are lovely too. Mistakes are not a crime at all. We all make them. I am working on an arrangement I found that uses more altered chords, like 7b5, and the grips are hard for me. So I keep working away and will post as soon as I can play through it well enough for the impact of the 7b5 chords to be heard.

Perfect recordings of brilliant performances often only serve to discourage people just getting their feet wet, so I think it's okay to let recordings just be a journal of sorts, not something I'm selling to iTunes.