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  1. #51

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    I don't think there's a big conflict between mechanics and feel. We only get one shot at "natural" learning and that's childhood. After that, we learn mechanics until we internalize the rules, we use the rules until we develop a repertoire of musical language, we listen and absorb (like doing research) until we have something to say, and finally we start playing out of feel. I don't think we can play "by feel" stuff we have never worked out the mechanics on unless we learned it maybe by rote somewhere. I find the language learning experience to parallel my jazz experience very closely.

    I'm going to drop my tempo to see what I can do with more expressive playing.

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  3. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulW10

    Very nice rlrhett! Nice chord accompaniment and selections. By the way there are no time pressures. We were originally thinking of adding one song per month, but people can add to each thread whenever they're ready.
    Ahhh, I thought we were doing a tune a WEEK!

    Probably good thing I didn't know. I would have fiddled and fussed and never actually posted a vid.

  4. #53

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    Funny, all this talk of slow playing. I listened to Frank Sinatra's version in order to learn the tune. Very up tempo compared to what I now have learned is a more standard take. I guess since I have some extra time maybe I can try a different interpretation.

  5. #54

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    after listening to a couple other versions I've tried a couple of new things. 1st thing is rubato, which is really hard because it always sounds like taking time to form a voicing or to think about where to go rather than a musical choice. 2nd thing is the melody down lower which i really like. 3rd is keeping an F bass note through the B section until getting to the A- then I went back to playing the roots. 4th thing was trying to split up the A and B sections by playing less harmonic stuff in the A and playing softer.

  6. #55

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    If any version would be considered "canonic" it would have to be Mancini himself conducting his own orchestra. The tempo is about 85 bpm.

  7. #56

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    And hey: here is HERB ELLIS doing it solo, rubato, lots of fills and stuff, including a blues passage!


  8. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    Anyway...days...of wine and roses
    Nice. I like the way you seem to recall it. Glad you didn't go back and relearn it first.

    Funny. I didn't even think about the noise. My wife said, "how can you even hear that?". BTW your vid titles are always amusing as well. Especially like the suggested videos that went along with this title.


  9. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone
    And hey: here is HERB ELLIS doing it solo, rubato, lots of fills and stuff, including a blues passage!

    This is the version that does it for me.




    John

  10. #59

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    The recording and uploading took me hours! And I thought I had it edited but couldn't save it! I need some training!

    I was hoping I'd have this memorized before posting to avoid a few errors, but what the heck!! I get nervous as heck when the recording starts!

  11. #60

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    Paul,
    Beautiful playing - and some real nice tone. You seem to be playing the guitar effortlessly.
    I just love the clarity of the Lee Ritenour.

  12. #61

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    sounds great paul!! that guitar is awesome!

  13. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulW10



    The recording and uploading took me hours! And I thought I had it edited but couldn't save it! I need some training!

    I was hoping I'd have this memorized before posting to avoid a few errors, but what the heck!! I get nervous as heck when the recording starts!
    That's a very nice, clean arrangement and performance. Sounds really good. Not sure what errors you're referring to; I didn't notice anything.

    Edit: Ok, caught a couple of minor glitches, but you recovered and stayed in time, so you can keep the gig.

    John
    Last edited by John A.; 01-24-2018 at 09:05 AM.

  14. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by alltunes
    Okay here's an early version. I was working on this before this thread so had stolen a few ideas already...some are my own

    Nice. I really enjoyed the tone you are getting out of that Tele. Nice ending.


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  15. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone
    So here's my "real time" stab at the first 16 measures. I'm thinking out loud while working down the lead sheet and seeing what voicings seem to work. Not a finished version at all, just a first run with more than my fair share of mistakes.

    This should make anyone feel much, much better about their own efforts!

    Lawson, you underestimate yourself. I always listening to your playing.


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  16. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by nick1994


    here's my version, a bit rough because I had to use a pick because one of my nails broke so I cut them.
    I loved your runs and fills. Very Joe Pass.


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  17. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone
    Here's my second installment thinking out loud through this tune.

    The guitar sound for some reason isn't so great--to boomy, which resulted from poor microphones placement vis. the amp. I hope it doesnt' detract too much.

    Your chromatic movement from G minor to Bflat minor reminded me of Jim Hall. I heard Jim Hall play that on a recording and I have been using it ever since.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  18. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by sunnysideup
    Great thread, now I just need to find a decent recording method, my Android isn't helping much.

    By the way, I'm not a pro at all.

    I think I should post something before I make any other comment - sort of price of entry - and that will probably take a week or two.
    Any camera or phone will do for the recording.
    I purchased a Zoom Q8 which I have been using.


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  19. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    Putting this first take out there, really more so I can listen to others...my kids are loud in this one, talking about TaTa's, which isn't anything dirty, its the local pizza place they love..

    Anyway...days...of wine and roses

    Very nice.


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  20. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
    "In time rubato...." That's what I'm going for as well. Want to be able to pat my foot while laying back. Anyway. Probably too much here, but an attempt at basic. Great tune...

    Voicings etc:
    Very nice. Interesting to hear this chord Melody on a nylon stringed Guitar. It seems to alter your approach because it resonates differently from a steel stringed Guitar.


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  21. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by rlrhett
    Well I had a couple of hours last night, so here is my contribution. My inclination is to try to refine it or get a clean take, but if I do that I probably will just never actually post anything. It will be a real challenge to do one a week, but I know I'm going to learn tons by doing it. Thanks for getting this started!

    Nice. I love that sound. What type/brand of Guitar is that ?


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  22. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone
    And hey: here is HERB ELLIS doing it solo, rubato, lots of fills and stuff, including a blues passage!

    Nice. I don’t think I have ever heard Herb Ellis play solo guitar.


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  23. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulW10



    The recording and uploading took me hours! And I thought I had it edited but couldn't save it! I need some training!

    I was hoping I'd have this memorized before posting to avoid a few errors, but what the heck!! I get nervous as heck when the recording starts!
    Very nice. I like the thumb pick/finger approach. Reminiscent of my old guitar teacher Lorne Lofsky.


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  24. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulW10

    The recording and uploading took me hours! And I thought I had it edited but couldn't save it! I need some training!

    I was hoping I'd have this memorized before posting to avoid a few errors, but what the heck!! I get nervous as heck when the recording starts!
    Very beautiful and meditative treatment with some interesting subs and harmonic moves. Well played!

  25. #74

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    I've cleared some time today to listen and comment on the others...actually, I've already listened, and y'all are killin! Great work, people.

  26. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by andyb
    After thinking about it for a few days I have decided to join, I think that this group should take over from the Jeff Arnold study group now. I have mixed feelings about that, but if my starting the Jeff Arnold group has inspired this one then thats great.

    I dont have anything to post yet, and when I do it will be the most basic thing you can imagine.

    andyb
    I wouldn’t abandon the Jeff Arnold thing. They are different. One is about memorizing a set piece and learning from a composer, this one is about composing and learning from the process.

    For all our emphasis on originality, learning by copying is an important skill. I don’t know if Jeff Arnold did DOWAR in his book, but at most I would suggest learning and playing that for this thread. Frankly I’m disappointed in myself that I didn’t have the discipline to learn someone else’s arrangement and participate in your group. I know I would have learned a lot.


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  27. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by QAman
    Paul,
    Beautiful playing - and some real nice tone. You seem to be playing the guitar effortlessly.
    I just love the clarity of the Lee Ritenour.
    Thanks very much Steve! And thanks forever for selling me the guitar. It really does play effortlessly. I swear I can sound the notes by just blowing on the strings!!

    If anyone is ever in the market for a guitar, I suggest contacting QAman first to see what he may have to offer. You couldn't deal with a nicer and more knowledgeable person.

    Quote Originally Posted by nick1994
    sounds great paul!! that guitar is awesome!

    Thanks very much Nick. I've only had the guitar for a short while and I'm really loving it.


    Quote Originally Posted by John A.
    That's a very nice, clean arrangement and performance. Sounds really good. Not sure what errors you're referring to; I didn't notice anything.

    Edit: Ok, caught a couple of minor glitches, but you recovered and stayed in time, so you can keep the gig.

    John

    Thanks John! I do get a case of the nerves when recording and tend to leave out some things that I can normally include when playing for myself. It's something on hoping that participating in this group will help me work on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doublea A
    Very nice. I like the thumb pick/finger approach. Reminiscent of my old guitar teacher Lorne Lofsky.
    Thanks very much. I started playing guitar with a flatpick and still do. However, for solo guitar like this I first started with Howard Morgen fingerstyle materials and made myself go with that style. I never could make the full transition so started incorporating the pick. I really like the pick...it's a Blue Chip I've had for several years.

    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone
    Very beautiful and meditative treatment with some interesting subs and harmonic moves. Well played!
    Thanks very much Lawson!! I think I copied a lot of them from you in your real time arranging videos you posted which were great!

  28. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by rlrhett
    I wouldn’t abandon the Jeff Arnold thing. They are different. One is about memorizing a set piece and learning from a composer, this one is about composing and learning from the process.

    For all our emphasis on originality, learning by copying is an important skill. I don’t know if Jeff Arnold did DOWAR in his book, but at most I would suggest learning and playing that for this thread. Frankly I’m disappointed in myself that I didn’t have the discipline to learn someone else’s arrangement and participate in your group. I know I would have learned a lot.
    Andyb, I agree. I wouldn't abandon the Jeff Arnold thread either. That thread definitely inspired this one but the threads have different goals and offer participants different things.

  29. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulW10
    Hi Doubleea! That's the camera I bought as well. Have you happened to try the Zoom editing software you can download for it? It does simple edits, but I can't get it to save the changes. I spent a lot of time trying to get it to work last night and I still ended up showing me turning off the camera in my post because I couldn't save my edits! I finally gave up.
    I have not tried the editing software. In fact I never edit my clips (as you see by my hand coming towards the camera ominously). I will give the editing software a try and get back to you.

  30. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doublea A
    Nice. I love that sound. What type/brand of Guitar is that ?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Thanks. I plan on playing around with the arrangement now that I have a month to work on it. I played it very straight, being the first time through. I think I have some more ideas waiting to come out.

    The guitar is a modern take on an acoustic archtop made by an obscure luthier from Southern California. Trying to capture some of the acoustic, non-amplified magic of a 30's L5 or Epi De Luxe. It has a carbon fiber soundboard which makes it's acoustic voice very loud and clear. It also weighs about 4lbs total, so it is nice to hang on a strap. There are only 4 out there "in the wild", half of which are being played with nylon strings and have a round soundhole (like my avatar). I have it on good authority that the luthier has 5 on order so there should be more out there soon.

    How do I know so much? I'm that obscure luthier toiling away trying to get a few more built! I've been building guitars for over 15 years as therapy and hobby business. I developed these guitars only in the last couple of years, and now have to deal with the stress of actual backorders and people waiting on their guitars. The adage is true: careful what you wish for. But it is hard to innovate in guitar building, and I'm proud of what I've come up with.

  31. #80

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    Hey Guys,
    Here is my rendition. Its such a beautiful melody that I'm trying to get it to sing as much as I can. The harmony is pretty much regular stuff except in a few spots where I move the bass a little to make a connection. The groove is the thing I have a challenge with on this one. I'm trying to play it with a pulse and light swing without over powering the sweetness of the melody.



    thanks for listening
    all the best
    Tim

  32. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by TLerch
    Hey Guys,
    Here is my rendition. Its such a beautiful melody that I'm trying to get it to sing as much as I can. The harmony is pretty much regular stuff except in a few spots where I move the bass a little to make a connection. The groove is the thing I have a challenge with on this one. I'm trying to play it with a pulse and light swing without over powering the sweetness of the melody.



    thanks for listening
    all the best
    Tim
    Aw jeez, which one of you guys told Lerch about this? Now he's gone and ruined it AGAIN with taste, groove, and virtuosity. Again!! How many times do I have to tell you guys? Sheesh. Some people.

    John

  33. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by TLerch
    Hey Guys,
    Here is my rendition. Its such a beautiful melody that I'm trying to get it to sing as much as I can. The harmony is pretty much regular stuff except in a few spots where I move the bass a little to make a connection. The groove is the thing I have a challenge with on this one. I'm trying to play it with a pulse and light swing without over powering the sweetness of the melody.



    thanks for listening
    all the best
    Tim
    Ha! That triplet head shake at :35 doh....

    Love it. Great playing as always. I need a little more of your "regular stuff" harmony apparently. :-) Thanks for posting, Tim. All the best.

  34. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by TLerch
    Hey Guys,
    Here is my rendition. Its such a beautiful melody that I'm trying to get it to sing as much as I can. The harmony is pretty much regular stuff except in a few spots where I move the bass a little to make a connection. The groove is the thing I have a challenge with on this one. I'm trying to play it with a pulse and light swing without over powering the sweetness of the melody.



    thanks for listening
    all the best
    Tim
    Holey moley that was awesome Tim!! Thanks for recording and posting that. I was really hoping famous and prominent players like yourself may join in here to give us inspiration. Very cool!!
    Paul

  35. #84

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    Nice, we got TL in, now it's a party!

    So folks, just a suggestion...this seems to be a friendly and supportive group...now, we've given each other a lot of pats on the back, but maybe, if someone is seeking some comments and critique on their take, can I suggest they just tag their post #c&cwelcome?

    I'm going to tag mine now.

  36. #85

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    thanks Guys, I didn't talk about my choices etc in the video because i wasn't sure if that's what the group was into. if there was some interest I could make another vid discussing some of the choices etc. (if I can remember what I did )
    So far there are some really nice renditions all of them are cool each in its own way.
    Tim
    Last edited by TLerch; 01-24-2018 at 09:23 PM.

  37. #86

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    So after doing the "Talk through" clips, I decided to day to try a couple of straight "play through" clips. Gotta say, though, as good as everyone sounds, I'm a little hesitant to put this up. Let's just say it's still a work in progress.

    For fun, two guitars: a 1954 Gibson L50 with the DeArmond "Guitar Mike" pickup, and an Epiphone Zephyr Regent Re-Issue with a P90-Bucker type pickup installed. Don't know how I feel about either of these, yet...

    Any kind observations and helpful advice other players can offer are welcome.

    Last edited by lawson-stone; 01-25-2018 at 09:39 AM.

  38. #87

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    I wanted to give some feedback to people, indivually...

    John A., when you start swinging, man, it sounds great. Great little bluesy inflections. Honestly, I know you hear some rough edges, I hear a first take that by the third or so would have all the kinks worked out.

    Lawson. You sound so relaxed playing your own ideas...not that you asked for any advice, but I'm not sure why you spend a lot of time here playing other people's ideas out of instructional materials, your own ideas are much better, and they're YOU. Well, except for the Raney group, that shit is GOLD.

    Alltunes, some very cool voicing in there...including some open strings, which I love.

    Nick1994, didn't want to leave you out, but for whatever reason, I'm not able to see anything in your post.

    Matt, I'm feeling the "in time rubato." You've definitely inspired me to go for another take...

    Rlhett...first of all props, for changing key...looking forward to hearing the whole thing...I can hear you thinking through this tune in your playing, and I like that, no stock, canned moves.

    My iPad is acting funky, let me post this and see who I missed in a bit...

  39. #88

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    Paul w, those rolling arpeggios really add to the romanticism of your take. Very nice!

    Ah, nick, sound cloud was being a jerk (because it's a shit app) lots to enjoy here. You seem to get cooking once you start improvising. Nice.

    And Tim, so many lovely Ted Greene nods here, but still all you. I particularly like you our little grace note approaches to so many of the melody notes...brings that blues sense to it, which is never a bad thing.

  40. #89

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    I've been enjoying everyone's submissions so far! Here's my attempt, warts and all...



    Paul

  41. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by PaulD
    I've been enjoying everyone's submissions so far! Here's my attempt, warts and all...



    Paul
    Dang. Warts? I could do with some "warts" like that myself.

  42. #91

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    When I learn a new tune I usually search the internet for ideas. If I hit upon this thread it would be like hitting the jackpot!
    I enjoyed listening and or watching each and every performance above...there are so many ideas and approaches to learn from.

    Anybody willing to post a few chord grips? Doesn't have to be the whole performance...maybe just a snippet here and there? I'm getting better but sometimes I can't pick up a chord from just watching/listening.

    For PC users; Movie Maker from Microsoft is a free program with a fairly intuitive interface for video editing.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  43. #92

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    Quote Originally Posted by TLerch
    Hey Guys,
    Here is my rendition. Its such a beautiful melody that I'm trying to get it to sing as much as I can. The harmony is pretty much regular stuff except in a few spots where I move the bass a little to make a connection. The groove is the thing I have a challenge with on this one. I'm trying to play it with a pulse and light swing without over powering the sweetness of the melody.


    thanks for listening
    all the best
    Tim
    That was just beautiful. And you definitely have the pulse and swing feel that makes it sound like jazz and not just, say, a classical player who is playing a finger-style arrangement of a standard. It has a lilt that I just love. I always struggle with this stuff because I basically don't like the George Van Epps/Ted Greene model of chord-melody because it's so much stretchy chords and hard fingerings that almost need to be memorized as a fixed arrangement... but they are so beautiful that I hate not being able to play that way. But my hands just can't do the stretches and often very complex fingering, and that's after playing guitar 55 years, and playing jazz for 30 years.

    Your treatment here hits a wonderful middle-ground between the technical complexity of the Ted Greene approach and the freedom and use of more accessible "grips" that Joe Pass advocated. Plus, and this is just subjective, it feels like jazz to me. I would love to hear how a chord-melodic improvisational chorus would sound.

    So... the pitching here just got way faster, folks!

  44. #93

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    I wanted to give some feedback to people, indivually...

    ...
    Lawson. You sound so relaxed playing your own ideas...not that you asked for any advice, but I'm not sure why you spend a lot of time here playing other people's ideas out of instructional materials, your own ideas are much better, and they're YOU. Well, except for the Raney group, that shit is GOLD.

    ...
    Jeff,
    You know how much I respect both your playing and your opinions, and I also respect your total immersion in your family's life! Something about a jazz guy playing something and kids playing in the background... LOUDLY... made me happy for you.

    Thanks for your insight here. I have a problem with how to use my ideas. I have a lot of ideas, but when I play, somehow the same old crap comes out and everything I play sounds the same. I tend to try out other people's arrangements and material to fertilize my mind. Admittedly, the Jeff Arnold book is so basic I am finding it a little frustrating.

    The Raney stuff is just so exciting to play... and I learn so much working through those solos. It's like a master class in bebop. I still haven't been able to work a lot of the phrases into my own playing, but I can tell my sense of time has vastly improved, the tempos at which I'm comfortable are way higher than when I started, so I'm happy learning the Raney stuff.

    Like the man says, it'll have to do until the real thing comes along!

  45. #94

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulD
    I've been enjoying everyone's submissions so far! Here's my attempt, warts and all...



    Paul
    So I listened to this a few times. My initial reaction was, wow! Hangs together really well technically, lots of ideas, kept me on the edge of my seat. Then I listened a couple of times more with your "warts and all" disclaimer in mind and, OK, I can now spot the warts. So, maybe not "perfect" but it's a real performance with a bunch of great ideas, which is what really counts. There's a beginning that had me anticipating what's coming next, a middle with some some twists and turns, and closure. There's an aesthetic. There's clearly an approach to solo guitar. If I'm sitting in a cafe, and there's this guy in the corner with an archtop and a tip jar, I'd be like "yeah, that's pretty hip. I'm gonna go drop some semoleans in the bucket." Not, "man, he kinda stuttered on a couple of notes and I think he added a beat or two in the head; get this guy outta here!" I really only hear that if I'm listening for it. If I'm listening for enjoyment, it doesn't register. Great stuff.

    John

  46. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by alltunes
    Anybody willing to post a few chord grips? Doesn't have to be the whole performance...maybe just a snippet here and there? I'm getting better but sometimes I can't pick up a chord from just watching/listening.
    Hey alltunes, I think this is a great idea. It's what I imagined the thread largely being-about when first brought up.

    Probably would be really helpful to make requests about certain sections, measures, or even timestamps if it's a specific video/audio. I'd imagine that general requests would be well received too . Something like: "How is everyone dealing with the Eb7#11 voicings in measure 2? Can we post some fingerings for those?" or "Jeff, what are you playing at 3:30-3:36 in your video?" etc.

    Just a thought.

  47. #96

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    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone
    So after doing the "Talk through" clips, I decided to day to try a couple of straight "play through" clips. Gotta say, though, as good as everyone sounds, I'm a little hesitant to put this up. Let's just say it's still a work in progress.

    For fun, two guitars: a 1954 Gibson L50 with the DeArmond "Guitar Mike" pickup, and an Epiphone Zephyr Regent Re-Issue with a P90-Bucker type pickup installed. Don't know how I feel about either of these, yet...

    Any kind observations and helpful advice other players can offer are welcome.
    Wow Lawson those are great! It's very impressive your command of chord voicings and being able to harmonize a substantial portion if not most of the melody line. I would really like to be able to develop that skill more. I also really liked it when you played octaves, another thing I'd like to do more of myself. Both of your takes were very enjoyable to listen to. Like your video cover too...hilarious!

    I couldn't decide which guitar I liked better. Definitely two distinctive tones and both were quite nice.

  48. #97

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulD
    I've been enjoying everyone's submissions so far! Here's my attempt, warts and all...

    Paul
    That was incredibly enjoyable Paul. Wow. Loved your take on the basic tune. And the improv part was really something. I really like your slides, pulls-offs etc. And great guitar tone! You've really created your own style which is everybody's ultimate goal!

  49. #98

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    Quote Originally Posted by nick1994

    after listening to a couple other versions I've tried a couple of new things. 1st thing is rubato, which is really hard because it always sounds like taking time to form a voicing or to think about where to go rather than a musical choice. 2nd thing is the melody down lower which i really like. 3rd is keeping an F bass note through the B section until getting to the A- then I went back to playing the roots. 4th thing was trying to split up the A and B sections by playing less harmonic stuff in the A and playing softer.

    Hi Nick,

    Somehow I missed your second post until just now. I really like it a lot. I personally enjoy hearing a rubato and contemplative feel from solo guitar like you get here. I also like the lower octave melody notes in the opening. I usually play everything up an octave from as written first then go back to a lower register when changing, but I like the reverse way of that like you do here. Nice.

  50. #99

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    Hi Guys,
    Here is a overview/breakdown of my version followed by few improvised choruses.
    enjoy I hope it is helpful.


    all the best
    Tim

  51. #100

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    Quote Originally Posted by TLerch
    Hi Guys,
    Here is a overview/breakdown of my version followed by few improvised choruses.
    enjoy I hope it is helpful.

    all the best
    Tim
    Wow Tim. Thanks so much for taking the time to do this for us. I'm at work but had to stop and watch it. There's a wealth of info here for a group like ours. I want to get home and try and absorb some with my guitar in hand.
    Thanks again!