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08-07-2016 11:48 PM
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Really nice, Jordan. Beautifully conceived, gracefully executed. Thank you!
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Top shelf Jordan, thanks for bringing your gift to us.
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World class.
Originally Posted by jordanklemons
"My music masterclass" should be knocking at your door. Insane grasp of harmony played with soul and finesse.
#gobsmacked
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Jordan, your arrangement is beautiful.
Looking forward a new one )
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Thank you K. Originally Posted by citizenk74
Really nice, Jordan. Beautifully conceived, gracefully executed. Thank you!
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Thanks 55. I've understood harmony for many many years. But it wasn't until more recently, while studying harmony (and it's melodic implications) with a pianist that things REALLY started to click for me. I think a real understanding of harmony goes so much deeper than we tend to talk about it as. It often seems like a glossed over, side-conversation to being able to play through changes. But the more I study it and fall in love with it, the more I'm convinced that's really where it's all at. Especially seeing the relationships between harmony and melody. I've spent a lot of time and energy exploring that world. Glad it comes across on some level. Originally Posted by 55bar
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When you are feeling up to it I'd love to have a Skype chat/lesson from you. Originally Posted by jordanklemons
Regards
Craig
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Yeah for sure Craig. Would be happy to connect with you. I have chemo tomorrow. Should be my last treatment! Though, they did tell me about a month ago that THAT one would be my last and it wasn't. But I think this time around, this really will be the final infusion.
I'm not really committing to much of anything until all of that is behind me. But I'll PM you with some details and we reconnect in a week or two and talk about it.
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I've been following your progress on Facebook, good luck with the chemo jk, Originally Posted by jordanklemons
Ps, did you try the lapstrap?
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This should be in the new exciting unknown players thread.
Sent from my D6503 using Tapatalk
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Such a great independent respect by and for the harmonic and the melodic. A great dialog of elements that lets each go their own way. Nicely done. This is the kind of duo at the same time approach I find so inspiring and stimulating as a listener and a player. Not enough of this around. Thanks for posting this. I really enjoyed it!
And a fresh look at a piece it's way too easy to fall into cliche in.
Bravo
David
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Ah man... can't tell you how nice it was to get home from the hospital today, where I was receiving my final chemo treatment, and find this message waiting for me. Very kind of you. And completely spot on to what I've been after in my playing for a long time. Glad you enjoyed it! Originally Posted by TruthHertz
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I slowed this down to 50% to figure out what you are doing. Love it
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Yikes. Under the microscope. Find anything worthwhile? Originally Posted by eh6794
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Great stuff
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Ya. I liked the whole thing. My biggest problem was understanding what gives jazz that cool jazz sound like the first line you play. A lot of that, I believe, is integrating the augmented triad in the correct place. I started understanding this a month or two ago. Originally Posted by jordanklemons
My back went out last month, so I have had a lot of time with the metronome and learning new things.
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Ouch... Sorry to hear about the back. I threw mine out about 11 years ago... not fun.
I don't want to say too much to confuse the matter at hand, as I think it's important for each of us to understand and conceptualize and integrate this stuff in our personal ways... sometimes I think it's best to just let others figure stuff out on their own.
I just want to point out one little thing though. That first line, before the melody starts, it could theoretically be viewed as an augmented triad with a minor 3rd added in as well. It's not how I hear it or built the line, but it could be analyzed that way. It's over a Bb7 (specifically a Bb7b13#9 chord) and it's essentially just a basic Gb major triad. By organizing it that way, it tonicizes the Gb, Bb, and Db... which means the root, #9 and b13 become the strongest and most stable notes. To hide the fact that it's just a basic major triad, I added a D natural note into the triad. Normally the D natural (which would be the major 3rd of the Bb7 chord) would be viewed (and heard) as a stable note... but if you listen and analyze how I phrased that line, every time I play a D natural note, I resolve it down to the Db. So I don't actually treat the major 3rd as a stable note... I treat it as a tension note which resolves down to the #9. That's a pretty big difference to me. In the augmented triad, the major 3rd would be the stable note. It's a subtle difference... and I think you should organize the notes the way you hear them. Just wanted to offer a little view of where that line came from. To me, learning to fully utilize the extensions and unstable "non-chord tones" as resolution points is a great way to get that "cool jazz sound". For me anyways. I just love what's possible with harmony. You can get away with so much.
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That's looking at it on a much different level. What made you choose Gb over Bb? Trial and error?
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Oy, that's actually a really deep question given how short and simple it looks and sounds. Originally Posted by eh6794
So I've spent a lot of time studying harmony, specifically from a pianist's perspective, and specifically organized using triads (sometimes upper structure... sometimes not). When I talk about a pianist's perspective, I simply mean that they have the ability to play a basic chord (like maybe the 1-3-b7 shell voicing) of a Bb7 chord in their left hand, and still have their right hand to play something totally different... like maybe a triad.
There are 6 different major triads (just major, not including minor, augmented, diminished, sus, etc) that can sit on top of a basic dominant 7 chord that will each affect the 7 chord in their own way. One triad that could work is that basic root position triad... like you asked about why I didn't just use a Bb triad. That does work. It yields a completely neutral dominant 7 chord. Superimposing Bb major over a Bb7 chord just gives a Bb7 chord. And it will cause the Bb-D-F notes to function as the most stable melody notes. But there are still 5 other major triads that work as well. One of those triads is the Gb major. If we superimpose the major triad built on the b6 of a dominant chord over the dominant chord, it gives us the 7b13#9 (or the 7#9#5... depending on the context). Completely different sound. Much darker and more intense than if we used the Bb triad. It reorganizes which notes are the most stable. So as I pointed out, the major 3rd in that line you brought up functions as a tension note. If I used a basic Bb triad, it would serve as a melodic resolution point. Neither are right or wrong, they're just different colors and emotions available to us. The next melody note (the 2nd note as we descend down towards the Ebmaj7) is a G note. There's only a few triads that contain that G note AND work within the tonality of Bb7. I went with a G major triad. Superimposing a G major triad yields a Bb13b9 chord. Very sweet sounding and romantic. Almost the feeling of dipping a lover while ballroom dancing together. But the bigger issue for me is that it incorporates the melody note, so it embraces it into the harmony. It's no longer seen as just a Bb7 chord with this "extension" that I have to find a way to glue onto it somehow. It's actually now part of the harmony. If you look at those two melody notes (Bb moving down to G) I harmonized the first note with the Gb triad (because it contains the Bb and I just love the intensity of that tonality) and then I harmonized the G note with a G major triad because it contains the G note. My voicings were made to incorporate those triads into the sound... with other notes added to fill out the harmony and to mask the simplicity of the triad.
Not sure if that answers your question or just confuses the issue even worse. It's a huge topic that's not easy to delve deep into through typed word. I've tried a few times here on the forum. Generally never went over that well, so I try not to bring it up too often. My goal, especially with a ballad like this, is to make every melody note feel completely embraced by the harmony so there's never a feeling of bi-tonality (a chord, with a melody note that sounds or feels separate).
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I did understand what you were talking about. It is interesting how you look at things. I wouldn't mind you sharing more in the future. I'm a physics major, so I like dissect things. Originally Posted by jordanklemons
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Yotam does something similar in his tune
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Wow, beautiful piece... not sure if I've heard this one before. So without transcribing some of it, it's hard to know if he's using the exact same harmonic/melodic technique we're talking about... but it's definitely possible. Nothing that I invented. I will say there's a sense of clarity to the harmony and to his lines that reminds me a lot of the type of clarity I've found using triads. That's ultimately what I love about organizing harmony this way. It's really that triads are such a simple and pure system for delivering harmony, that's there's something about them that's so pure and bell-like... they just offer such a great sense of clarity to the music. No matter how complex we make them, they just shine through. Always reminds me of like a Bill Evans type sound. Which I definitely hear in this piece.
Glad what I said earlier made sense. As for sharing more in the future... I've started some threads about the topic in the past but was usually met with way to much resistance for it to be worth the time and energy to fight about any of this. I know I posted my thesis here somewhere which I wrote about this topic. I also used to teach some via Skype and in person and have worked on some of this stuff with students... but at the moment, I'm taking a break from teaching until my health is back up to par.
I'm also trying to relearn how to play right now, and I'm trying to write out some books for my own sake... sort of like creating my own curriculum since I know what I want and need in my playing, I just need to sit and relearn all of it again. I may potentially make some of those books available through my website as they come to fruition. That might be another option.
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Jordan,
It's good to hear (and see) you again here. Great music is intellectually satisfying and emotionally honest. That was great music. The ensuing thread and discussion has left my head spinning---but in a good way!
Thanks so much for posting the clip.
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When the books are ready, I'll get some. Looking forward to that
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Grant Green, What is This Thing
Today, 01:59 PM in Ear Training, Transcribing & Reading