Solo Guitar

**Groyniad** · 04-19-2016, 01:33 PM

just not into it

except for this guy - who i rather like

thoughts?

to me this sounds much much more interesting than other solo guitar i've heard

i love how determined he is to take 'liberties' - the tune may be getting a bit of a hard time here - but i think its pretty happy with his presentation

to me e.g. jp sounds dull in comparison

the most important thing about pb's thing here is that the tune stands out effortlessly from the accompaniment - that's a minimum condition of success i think

**drbhrb** · 04-20-2016, 10:08 AM

Lol at "this guy" to describe Peter Bernstein. Agreed though - he is one of the best jazz guitarists of all time IMO. I particularly love the way he plays melodies either solo or in a group. He really knows the tunes inside and out.

I also agree about feeling pretty meh about solo guitar in general. I can't listen to the Joe Pass stuff for more than a track or two and I'd say he is one of the better cases where at least every chorus is different and interesting. There's nothing more boring than a pre arranged solo guitar piece where the guitarist has only worked out one way to play the A sections. Yikes.

**Groyniad** · 04-20-2016, 01:37 PM

so there's been a wee discussion on a different thread about joe pass and his role in the tradition

i think there's more to interest the general listener here in bernstein's treatments of these tunes than i find in jp's treatments.

i mean - there's very little i like about jp's solo guitar work despite being a total guitar-geek. i don't think its him - i think he does it just about as well as it can be done - i think its the solo-guitar thing.

--

but i do like what pb does - such lovely loose time

**dcharles** · 04-20-2016, 02:37 PM

Just put my 2 cents in on the other current related thread about chord melody. I feel like the main reason for all the solo jazz guitar dislike is the fact that it is so consistently lacking in rhythmic solidity. Its like guitarists are expected to be sloppy as a default, and I've found it to be true. But I play acoustic rhythm/van eps chordal improv/plectrum solo type stuff and place an absolute premium on rhythm. And it just makes everything better. I am a former piano player, so I always appreciated the guitar's ability to do a decent job of approximating what a piano can do. But maybe a lot of you also don't enjoy solo classical guitar or piano music? And that's totally fine. I have always enjoyed the potential, skill, and personality of solo instrumental music of many genres. But its not all I like by any means!

**dcharles** · 04-20-2016, 02:38 PM

Oh and regarding Joe Pass- I hear you. There are a few times a year when I dig out the first Virtuoso LP and that's it. Its cool, but not my first choice for most of my listening!

**mr. beaumont** · 04-20-2016, 02:44 PM

I hate being beat over the head with time. The beauty of solo performance is that time can ebb and flow and be organic.

Too often, solo jazz guitar is "look what I can do!"

**wintermoon** · 04-20-2016, 03:06 PM

**lawson-stone** · 04-20-2016, 03:18 PM

Is anybody seriously claiming that Joe Pass, playing solo guitar, does not swing? Joe Pass? Doesn't SWING?

Traditionally, the first chorus of many standards is played rubato, and Joe does this--remember, he's improvising the whole thing. It's like a literature or philosophy professor reading a section of the set text of the day prior to moving into the explanation. But the vast majority of Joe Pass' solo performances build a very hard-swinging set of choruses.

You can say some thing against Joe Pass' playing, but he doesn't have a propulsive drive, he doesn't swing?

Nuts.

**lawson-stone** · 04-20-2016, 03:28 PM

You can criticize parts of this, but seriously, does this lack drive, time, and swing?

**drbhrb** · 04-20-2016, 03:38 PM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

Is anybody seriously claiming that Joe Pass, playing solo guitar, does not swing? Joe Pass? Doesn't SWING?

Traditionally, the first chorus of many standards is played rubato, and Joe does this--remember, he's improvising the whole thing. It's like a literature or philosophy professor reading a section of the set text of the day prior to moving into the explanation. But the vast majority of Joe Pass' solo performances build a very hard-swinging set of choruses.

You can say some thing against Joe Pass' playing, but he doesn't have a propulsive drive, he doesn't swing?

Nuts.

He has rhythm but the nuts and bolts of his approach to solo playing - switching between bass, chords, single note runs, chord/melody - constantly interrupts the groove. I don't enjoy it.

**lawson-stone** · 04-20-2016, 05:45 PM

Originally Posted by drbhrb

He has rhythm but the nuts and bolts of his approach to solo playing - switching between bass, chords, single note runs, chord/melody - constantly interrupts the groove. I don't enjoy it.

That's odd because the one thing that is said repeatedly, by players and critics alike, is that Joe Pass' solo playing has a relentless swing and time. "Groove" doesn't mean (IMO) that we don't have to stop listening, stop following what the player is doing. I don't find his approach at all interruptive.

**matt.guitarteacher** · 04-20-2016, 06:50 PM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

That's odd because the one thing that is said repeatedly, by players and critics alike, is that Joe Pass' solo playing has a relentless swing and time. "Groove" doesn't mean (IMO) that we don't have to stop listening, stop following what the player is doing. I don't find his approach at all interruptive.

I don't think anyone is saying he has bad time. But there's a tendency to change feels often within a tune. Probably just a personal taste issue. I don't like it on EVERYTHING. Summertime is very cool, but there's a little bit of that shifting change of feel in much of his solo work. Again, it's not right or wrong , but just matter of personal taste. I can see how some don't care for it. I like a certain measure of it.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

**dcharles** · 04-20-2016, 08:12 PM

Lawson,

That Joe Pass example is excellent. Its has everything great about a solo performance. I was not thinking of JP as a bad example per se. Maybe its just that it seems to me a lot of other guitarists have tried and failed at doing what he did.

Mr B,

Good point. I wasn't thinking strict time exactly. More like feel. I think you can have good rubato feel and sloppy rubato feel.

**lawson-stone** · 04-20-2016, 09:52 PM

Originally Posted by dcharles

Lawson,

That Joe Pass example is excellent. Its has everything great about a solo performance. I was not thinking of JP as a bad example per se. Maybe its just that it seems to me a lot of other guitarists have tried and failed at doing what he did.

Mr B,

Good point. I wasn't thinking strict time exactly. More like feel. I think you can have good rubato feel and sloppy rubato feel.

That's certainly right. No doubt, many tried and failed, or simply couldn't achieve that level of integration. But still, must a player be a Paginini-like genius or face the withering scorn of our displeasure?

I guess I've become more forgiving of amateur efforts (my own included!) than I used to be.

**whiskey02** · 04-21-2016, 09:06 AM

Jody Fisher is amazing!

**Larry Feldman** · 04-22-2016, 11:27 PM

Really dig that Joe Pass video. He knew those standards inside and out, and had such an amazing ear to take them to different keys, and play the melody in different registers. He changed the tempos and the groove and made it a tour de force of a performance. Made my evening.

**targuit** · 04-23-2016, 11:28 AM

Originally Posted by Groyniad

just not into it

except for this guy - who i rather like

thoughts?

to me this sounds much much more interesting than other solo guitar i've heard

i love how determined he is to take 'liberties' - the tune may be getting a bit of a hard time here - but i think its pretty happy with his presentation

to me e.g. jp sounds dull in comparison

the most important thing about pb's thing here is that the tune stands out effortlessly from the accompaniment - that's a minimum condition of success i think

You have a good point. As someone who plays a bit of keyboards, it is funny how relatively easier it is to play this tune on a keyboard. This is not as easy to play well on guitar, at least I find it so in the key of G.