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  1. #1

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    Hello, I would like to know which procedure do you follow to build chords below a given top melody note, as to arrange a tune for solo jazz guitar.

    I have read, and like, the approach given by Matt Warnock in his great article about chord-melody (The Complete Guide to Chord Melody | MATT WARNOCK GUITAR) in which you simply think about the interval the given melody top note represents in relation to the given chord, and then you look for the shape voicing that has that interval as the top note (example: melody note is A, and the fake book says the chord below the note is F. As A is the third of F, you simply play the shape of the corresponding drop-3 voicing which has the third as the top note in the formula, in this case that would be the third inversion drop-3 voicing of the F chord).

    I do have too a great book by Howard Morgen (Through Chord Melody and beyond), as well as his Trufire course Fingerboard Breakthrough.

    However I don´t understand the process Howard Morgen follows to play a chord below a given melody note. As I see it, he just plays the given chord and adds the melody note as an embellishment or extension of it , putting the emphasis in the walking bass line generated with his chords and in the voice leading among them.

    Could anyone please explain how he gets to play a determined voicing (root position, inversions etc) of a chord if he doesn´t follows the “formula” explained by Matt Warnock? There is something I´m misssing and don´t get the point... any help?

    Maybe this question is motre clear: wht´s the process to locate the correct chord for a given melody note?

    Thanks in advanced
    Last edited by eduardosanz; 02-18-2016 at 08:17 AM.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    I'm no expert, and I'm not familiar with Howard Morgan's approach. ("Then why are you commenting?")

    If I'm working out a chord melody, I usually work top down--i.e., from the melody note. Sometimes, when I'm improvising of changes, but not trying to play the melody of a tune, I might work bottom up. That is, play a voicing I like and let that dictate the melody on top.

    I wonder if Howard Morgan is thinking of a more sparse chord on, say, strings 3 and 4 (or 3, 4, and 5, or even 6) , and thinking of the melody on the top two strings as an extension of that chord. For example, in the example you gave, he could play a voicing of F, and then add an extra A on top. In that specific example, you are likely to be doubling a note because most voicings of F would have an A in them. But if the melody on top is not the third (or seventh), you are less likely to get that doubling.

    Is that at all helpful?

  4. #3
    This is my own personal opinion as a player, learning myself. No expert: there are a great many specific skills to playing chord melody. Basic technical skills of moving chord to chord in a legato way, knowledge of voicings of a given basic chord with a given melody note, knowledge of diatonic substitutions, knowledge of more advanced free harmonization were outside substitutions, walking bass etc.

    I would imagine the Matt Warnock lesson is more in line with the more basic level of just simply harmonizing the melody note with the chord. In terms of creating your own chord melodies, it's probably well worth having a pretty good grasp on that level before working too much over more advanced topics. At the same time, it's fine to also work on other people's arrangements, transcribe, arrange you're own chord substitutions that you think work only for the reason that they "sound good", and work through a course like the Morgan one knowing that you're not going to grasp all of it the first time.

    "Formulas" work better on the basic level . When you get into more advanced topics you have to have a little more knowledge and experience.

    Also, I would think that examples of chord progressions over tunes will generally get a lot of response and initiate a great conversation. I'd say maybe learn the Morgan stuff, then post a specific example of something and ask, " why does this work? ". you learn a lot from that conversation about something which you already basically know how to play.

  5. #4
    Sorry. I reread and probably wasn't what you were asking. Sounds like you're asking more about putting melody notes onto basic chords versus the drop 2 method.

    They're really just different philosophies. One is not right and the other wrong. I think Matt talks in some of his lessons about the difference between playing chord melody with a group versus solo playing, and I kind of like the distinction. It kind of points to the differences in the two approaches you're talking about, I think.

    Drop twos have the benefit of being SYSTEMATIC inversions, which have all of the essential chord tones in them. They're pretty easily modified to accommodate extensions which replace a given chord tone as well. In this way, they are very effective for systematic fretboard knowledge and not as limited to a very few chord shapes etc.

    The cons of drop 2's would be, in my opinion, the need to know 4 inversions of one chord to accommodate the four melody notes of those chord tones. Also, if you play your drop twos in inversions , you're not getting the bass line that you're looking for in a purely solo guitar setting. Most beginners have a compelling "need" to hear the bass root movement when learning chord melody at first. At least, it was for me, and by reading on the forums, many others as well. You grow out of this eventually, but it's there for most of us at the beginning and somewhat understandable. I mean, you DO need to be able to "hear" the root movement, whether you're actually playing it or not.

    When you're getting started, it's difficult to "hear" a drop-2 Cmaj9 as C and NOT E-minor, because it basically IS E min7 .

    That's where the other method has some benefit. Take a basic chord shape, and place the melody note on top. Of course, the problem there is that you have to have to have more knowledge of how to build chords in the first place to do that. In this regard, it's probably helpful to know some go-to pet voicings of other players from methods or wherever.

    I don't know if Morgan systematically lays them out , or has a lot of examples, but all of those are helpful. It's just going to be less systematic than the drop 2 process. After struggling doing it on my own for a while, I did a very similar process with Robert Conti's Chord Melody Assembly Line book . It's basically his pet voicings for all types of chords/melody note combinations . They are mostly in root position, which, again, may be very helpful in the beginning.

    Beyond not being systematic, the other cons of this method are that, it's somewhat paint by numbers and there are holes. To be fair, we ALL learn chords from what others play and don't reinvent the wheel on everything, but you're not going to get every conceivable combination of melody note and chord which you'll find in tunes. Really just a starting point from which to build. I personally think it's a very good starting point though. It really got me off the ground a lot more quickly than I was going before.

    You'll eventually want to understand chord construction of all types, including drop 2's. They're especially helpful in solving problems and holes from the other "pet voicings" etc. Also, you don't only want to play someone else's voicings forever. Then, there's all of the theory on substitution, re-harmonization etc.....

    I hope that maybe that's more helpful. Good luck.
    Last edited by matt.guitarteacher; 02-18-2016 at 11:17 AM.

  6. #5

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    By the way, this piqued my curiosity, so I took a look at the Amazon preview of a book by Morgan, "Through Chord Melody and Beyond." There (starting on p. 10), he does the "top-down" strategy like Matt Warnock.

    http://www.amazon.com/Through-Melody.../dp/0739049844

  7. #6

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    Why don't we take a specific song and analyze it? Issues like choice of key, bass patterns, and melody. Hopefully talking in real musical terms, not the horrid xxxx0123 style terms but real notation or notes on which string. Pick a tune. Start with a ballad.

    Start with the melody within a specific key and the bass note of the root chords of the progression. As you proceed one can always 'walk the bass'. Anyone like The Nearness of You. Isn't It Romantic. The Second Time Around.

    Any Jimmy van Heusen song is great. But Beautiful, Here's That Rainy Day.....

    Just my opinion but where people go off track sometimes is believing that they have to "memorize" inversions, etc. The harmony is the convergence of the inner harmonic voices. With chord melody it is all about voice leading properly.
    Last edited by targuit; 02-18-2016 at 11:54 AM.

  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by targuit View Post
    Why don't we take a specific song and analyze it? Issues like choice of key, bass patterns, and melody. Hopefully talking in real musical terms, not the horrid xxxx0123 style terms but real notation or notes on which string. Pick a tune. Start with a ballad.

    Start with the melody within a specific key and the bass note of the root chords of the progression. As you proceed one can always 'walk the bass'. Anyone like The Nearness of You. Isn't It Romantic. The Second Time Around.

    Any Jimmy van Heusen song is great. But Beautiful, Here's That Rainy Day.....

    Just my opinion but where people go off track sometimes is believing that they have to "memorize" inversions, etc. The harmony is the convergence of the inner harmonic voices. With chord melody it is all about voice leading properly.
    I agree: a concrete example is helpful. Eduardo, what tune are you working on?

    (I disagree that using tab is "horrid" or not real music, though that's a dispute for another thread. Indeed, it's already been beaten to death. I just don't want to scare away the OP or others who are not (yet) comfortable with staff notation.)

  9. #8

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    What I intend Dingus is to talk at least musically. For example.

    If talking about a chord in a certain measure indicate a Bm7b5 at the sixth fret rather than an xxx000 type diagram. If someone is so much a beginner that they don't know what that means, then we can explain, but let's pretend we know music nomenclature and chord types. Anyone with chord book should be able to follow along. Ignorance is not an excuse for remaining so.

    There is also a good reason for this. Too many here think of music visually. It is about developing one's ears and at least the veneer of musicianship.

  10. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by targuit View Post
    Hopefully talking in real musical terms, not the horrid xxxx0123 style terms but real notation or notes on which string.
    Jay, why don't you start a thread on this or shut up about it forever? This is belligerent, obnoxious and personally insulting to many members of this forum. There are even some who read and play better than you do but still use it.

    Start your own thread on this, and stop pounding it in every other thread.

  11. #10

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    Matt - rather than hyperventilate like a petulant child, why don't we do a concrete song? I'm trying to elevate the level of discussion while you do your best to attack individuals. I made no reference to you. Why do you attack me? Because I'm trying to get individuals to a 'higher plane' of musicianship? Tsk, tsk.... do you really think that pianists discuss music with diagrams of the piano?

    You pick the song, Matt, and let's see what happens. I would call attention to the monitors of the level of vindictiveness in your posts.
    Last edited by targuit; 02-18-2016 at 05:31 PM.

  12. #11
    https://tapatalk.com/shareLink?url=h...hare_fid=59439
    The dreaded XXXX'S, Segovia scales, and the "insanity" of blank key signatures.

  13. #12

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    All of me
    All the things you are
    Besame Mucho
    Corcovado
    Cry Me a River
    Desafinado
    Darn that dream
    Estate
    ...Waltz for Debby.

    A world of tunes to choose from. Speak up. (I edited out one of my gratuitous comments here. Too much of Carlo Rossi's finest red talking.)
    Last edited by targuit; 02-19-2016 at 09:40 AM.

  14. #13

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    Eduardo, I'm not sure about Matt or Howard's method... so I can't speak to theirs.

    For me, my current approach may be too advanced to talk about here for this thread, but if you're interested you can check out my thesis in the chords and comping area... it's all about a new approach to harmonic development on the fretboard, and it's all about the top-down mentality... starting with the melody note and working down within an organized system. It's all based on triads.

    That said, when I originally started studying jazz guitar, my first teacher would just give me lead sheets and tell me to arrange a chord melody for them. I'd never heard of drop 2 or drop 3, I didn't have many (or any) memorized chord shapes (though I found and memorized a bunch quickly doing this) that I could pick from. I just knew basic chord-construction theory, and I knew the notes on the fretboard decently well.

    He had me find the melody note on the fretboard (usually on the 1st or 2nd string) and then fill in other 'necessary' notes underneath it wherever I could find them to fit. And he had me playing a chord shape for every single melody note. It was tedious at the beginning. But with a few weeks, it started getting significantly easier. Again, I'd never heard of the concept of drop 2 or 3 or whatever. Those things may be helpful to some. But they're certainly not necessary. And if you're getting to caught up on them to even know how to begin, they might be making matters worse.

    Generally, in the beginning, I think it's a good idea to steer clear of inversions. Others may disagree. I just think it's good to take things one step at a time. Find a new shape for each melody note. Do everything root position. Just find ways to make it work. Go slow. Keep everything simple. Eventually, you'll start to get good enough at that that you'll just get bored and start to crave something more. And then you can use your ears or theory, or a shift in your philosophy, to help accomplish that.

    Just my 2 cents.

  15. #14

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    Thank you all for your great answers. I guess it is a matter of keep working in the fretboard, as I feel my theory background is solid enough.

    Good idea to introduce a standard and talk in practical terms. I´m doubting in beggining with Autumn LEaves vs Blue Bossa. Opinions?

    By the way, do you guys think the Barry Harris approach would be aplicable to harmonizing melodies as well as it is to comping? (Maybe a subject for another thread).

    Thanks again

    PS: Very interesting your thesis Jordan Klemon. I´ll spend loads of time there...
    Last edited by eduardosanz; 02-19-2016 at 08:31 AM.

  16. #15

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    Either of those songs would be fun, Eduardo. If you have a preference, let us know. And what key you prefer. I see Blue Bossa a lot in Cm7 as I recall, while Autumn Leaves is often in Em or Gm, though I also like performing it in Dm as nod to Andrea Bocelli's version, French lyrics in part and all.

    It is true that because there is no simple app or way of posting actual notation to illustrate that ways of demonstrating voice leading and such are more tedious, but I still think one could discuss issues that arise in terms of execution. Hopefully not mine....

    Here is a YT link to a fine version of Blue Bossa. Achim includes a link to his transcription though I have not checked that out. He does a beautiful job of articulating the melody and improvisation in my opinion. I like his playing very much. This is not a chord melody solo version but one can create a facsimile though not with the full solo lead work.

    Last edited by targuit; 02-19-2016 at 10:03 AM.

  17. #16

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    Eduardo - Another song whose melody and structure lend themselves really well to a chord melody solo approach is Georgia On My Mind, principally because the melody is so well integrated in the chords and voice leading. This tune I would perform in F or E for vocals as well, but it works in almost any key.

  18. #17

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    Eduardo,
    Blue Bossa is a great choice. To answer a previous question, yes, the "Barry Harris" system works well for chord melody. There are at least two books on this: The Barry Harris System for Guitar by Alan Kingston and the Drop 2 Book by Randy Vincent.

    I have the Vincent book, but not the Kingstone book. I like it a lot. (It's about more than the "barry Harris" system, and he doesn't use that term, but his approach shares a lot in common.) Vincent actually uses Blue Bossa as a vehicle, I believe.

    In any case, the idea is to use an inversion of the chord that puts the desired melody note on top. For scale degrees that are not in the chord (such as F in C minor), you can use a fully diminished chord. This discussion inspired me to try to chart out the first few measures. Let me know how this works for you, and if you have questions:
    Howard Morgen arranging process-blue-bossa-drop-2-1-jpg
    Last edited by dingusmingus; 02-19-2016 at 12:11 PM.

  19. #18

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    Thanks a lot dingusmingus.

    I´ll work on it and tell you how it goes. Thanks.

    PS: I´ve sent u a PM.

  20. #19

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    It's good to be able to play a chord with any combination of outer voices that you like.

    Attention to the counterpoint between the top and bottom notes can help make some really compelling arrangements.

  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by dingusmingus View Post
    Eduardo,
    Blue Bossa is a great choice. To answer a previous question, yes, the "Barry Harris" system works well for chord melody. There are at least two books on this: The Barry Harris System for Guitar by Alan Kingston and the Drop 2 Book by Randy Vincent.

    I have the Vincent book, but not the Kingstone book. I like it a lot. (It's about more than the "barry Harris" system, and he doesn't use that term, but his approach shares a lot in common.) Vincent actually uses Blue Bossa as a vehicle, I believe.

    In any case, the idea is to use an inversion of the chord that puts the desired melody note on top. For scale degrees that are not in the chord (such as F in C minor), you can use a fully diminished chord. This discussion inspired me to try to chart out the first few measures. Let me know how this works for you, and if you have questions:
    Howard Morgen arranging process-blue-bossa-drop-2-1-jpg
    As I understand it this is the basic technique that Wes used as well?

    Barry Harris did absolutely not originate this system by the way - it derives from the practice of 4 way close block chord writing in horns during the big band era, also adopted on piano by George Shearing among others. On the guitar, 4 way close is impractical (maybe Ben Monder can do it lol) so most of us use Drop 2.

    In essence, by using this harmony, you are turning the guitar into a little big band sax section :-) Wes always sounds like an orchestra to me when he starts his block chords....

    BH further abstracts the system to become an 8 note scale allowing more elaborate variations, but you need to start on this basic step and get that properly internalised before moving on...

    Incidentally, using these Drop2 voicings give you a tenth on the outside most of the time, which sounds good... Drop 3's give parallel 12ths (5ths) which are less pleasing to my ears.

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by dasein View Post
    It's good to be able to play a chord with any combination of outer voices that you like.

    Attention to the counterpoint between the top and bottom notes can help make some really compelling arrangements.
    Loads of people talk about bass melody - playing the melody with the bass (root) notes of the chords and maybe adding a little walking using neighbour tones on upbeats when that's secure - as a very good first step for learning a tune and preparing it for solo performance. Often when I do this the result is almost enough in itself.

    I think you can expand this again by exploring inversions. It's good to get the bass line a bit more melodic eventually since a lot of jazz basslines jump around by fourths and things and I'm not crazy about that sound all the time. But that's a next step.

    I reckon that if you can do the BH block chord thing, play single note lines and play two part counterpoint you have a good set of working tools to use to play solo guitar. If you transpose the tunes to guitar friendly keys you can use open strings liberally too.

    Peter Bernstein uses open strings in flat keys just for the Evuls lol.
    Last edited by christianm77; 02-20-2016 at 07:16 AM.

  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    As I understand it this is the basic technique that Wes used as well?

    Barry Harris did absolutely not originate this system by the way - it derives from the practice of 4 way close block chord writing in horns during the big band era, also adopted on piano by George Shearing among others. On the guitar, 4 way close is impractical (maybe Ben Monder can do it lol) so most of us use Drop 2.

    In essence, by using this harmony, you are turning the guitar into a little big band sax section
    Thats exactly what Randy Vincent explains in his Drop 2 book (page 3).

    I like, though, your way of describing the Barry Harris methodology as a kind of "abstraction". I think you pretty well define it.

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by targuit View Post
    Eduardo - Another song whose melody and structure lend themselves really well to a chord melody solo approach is Georgia On My Mind, principally because the melody is so well integrated in the chords and voice leading. This tune I would perform in F or E for vocals as well, but it works in almost any key.
    Why don't YOU post a clip of a jazz standard that demonstrates the outstanding musicianship you advocate? I hear a lot of talk but not a lot of playing. Show us your approach. Play a tune chord-melody style, then give us a chorus of improvised line playing, then maybe a block-chord type improvisation.

    With the vast experience you keep telling us you have, I don't know why you can't just turn on a camera and make a clip of your own music. Notation is fine, but actual playing, that's real music.
    - Lawson
    "Whenever you come near the human race, there's layers and layers of nonsense." - Thornton Wilder, Our Town

  25. #24

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    Hi, Lawson!

    My intention is to do just that with two or three audio videos on my YouTube channel ASAP. Having "retired" (read forced out of business thanks to our corrupt and misguided Federal unfunded mandates upon the once noble profession of medicine) last October, I am still copying medical records of patients for their new doctors. (I never adopted EMRs being close to retirement age and having the intelligence to see through the fraud that they are.) So I copy paper records. Over a thousand patients. Sisyphean task like cleaning the Aegean stables and every bit as remunerative.

    In addition, I'm completing the financial aid paperwork for my son who is graduating as the top male student in his high school - not just his class - this spring. He is and will always be my priority as long as there is breath in my body. Amazingly talented guy. Priorities, Lawson.

    I record using a Korg D1200 standalone recorder. No computer DAW at present. I then record the wav.files as a CD-R, and transfer them to iTunes to convert to files acceptable for Windows Moviemaker. Then put a picture or two there for some visual interest. I like to record at least a few songs on the CD. The only problem is that technically I'm not that good at that part - converting the files, Windows movie maker, uploading to YT. I do it so infrequently lately that I have to review it. I is actually far easier for me to record the music than to create videos.

    I record with a $69 MXL 990 large diaphragm condenser directly into the Korg preamps with a classical Yamaha guitar that cost me about $200 in Italy back in the early Eighties. I don't own an archtop. I do have a Godin LGX-SA but I am experiencing problems recording into the Korg via its 'guitar input', so I have not been able to use it for some time. Finally and to boot I am having troubles with the Korg - something is loose inside the chassis and - no joke - I have to press on the top and sides to get anything recorded to the left master bus to sound properly. After all this, I use no Autotune and do not 'comp' tracks - every track is a complete unretouched take.

    So finally, I have three songs recorded that are ready to be put on the CD. I'd like to record two or more before I 'finalize' the disc. Tonight I'm going to record Alfie and It Could Happen to You. Already recorded are The Days of Wine and Roses and Here's That Rainy Day. I have to decide between a couple of others. Maybe I'll record Georgia On My Mind tonight as well.
    Last edited by targuit; 02-20-2016 at 08:15 PM.

  26. #25

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    I've done a lot of those things. Put 3 kids through college, married off 2 of them, #3 this summer. Done all the financial aid papers, plus working full time and more. Managing a farm with horses and lots of maintenance and chores.

    It's not hard to make a recording just to share with everyone what you're working on. It needn't take more than is needed to write 3 or 4 forum messages. Fire up your smart-phone to take video, plug in the guitar to the amp or snuggle up to the microphone, and play something. These posts are typically "rough drafts" of works in progress. If I waited until I really had what I wanted, I'd never post. I make a point every day just to turn on the video recording of my laptop and record about 7 minutes of myself playing something. Then I watch it, and after I'm done being a little sick, I delete the file. Sometimes a section is worth sharing, even if only as a kind of cry for help! Those I pop onto YouTube and link here.

    Players are only really interested in the advice of other players. Only playing makes that point. Nothing illustrates a point of theory better than a played example given by the teacher.

    Despite the semi-adversarial tone we sometimes have here, I have never been badly treated for posting something that was, shall we say, less than Joe Pass/Johnny Smith/Wes Montgomery redivivus,if you know what I mean. People have always been kind and helpful when I've posted some of my rough work, even people I've had pretty fierce debates with.

    I hope you'll think about not needing to post anything perfect. Just illustrate what you're trying to explain by putting up some playing. Doesn't have to be fancy.
    Last edited by lawson-stone; 02-20-2016 at 09:16 PM.
    - Lawson
    "Whenever you come near the human race, there's layers and layers of nonsense." - Thornton Wilder, Our Town

  27. #26

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    Hi, Lawson!

    I'm pretty content, as I recorded versions of Georgia On My Mind and Alfie tonight. The format I recorded was three tracks - rhythm guitar, vocal, and 'lead' guitar. I did Georgia first and Alfie last. I like them both.

    You must understand that the path of overdubbing yourself is not easy. But tonight despite the difficult I was reasonably content with the outcome, especially Alfie.

    As I said, it is easier for me to record than to post videos. However, these will go up. But I am not as tech proficient as you are. Ironically, I once posted a request for help with posting videos. The silence was deafening . I still use my cell phone as ....wait for it ... a phone primarily. But I aspire to a better level of artistry than a cell phone video.

    Don't fret, Lawson. I will post these recordings very soon. Within the limitations of overdubbing oneself I will leave it to you to judge.

    Here - I've given you an assignment. Post your videos of Alfie and Georgia. That is only fair, no?. LOL....
    Last edited by targuit; 02-21-2016 at 04:08 AM.

  28. #27

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    "This is going to be fun."
    Last edited by targuit; 02-21-2016 at 04:29 AM.

  29. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by eduardosanz View Post
    By the way, do you guys think the Barry Harris approach would be aplicable to harmonizing melodies as well as it is to comping? (Maybe a subject for another thread...
    Yes you can do that. Have a look at this example I did a while back. It's a harmonization of the first few bars of My Romance using the Barry Harris method.
    Attached Images Attached Images Howard Morgen arranging process-image-jpg 

  30. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by targuit View Post
    Hi, Lawson!

    I'm pretty content, as I recorded versions of Georgia On My Mind and Alfie tonight. The format I recorded was three tracks - rhythm guitar, vocal, and 'lead' guitar. I did Georgia first and Alfie last. I like them both.

    You must understand that the path of overdubbing yourself is not easy. But tonight despite the difficult I was reasonably content with the outcome, especially Alfie.

    As I said, it is easier for me to record than to post videos. However, these will go up. But I am not as tech proficient as you are. Ironically, I once posted a request for help with posting videos. The silence was deafening . I still use my cell phone as ....wait for it ... a phone primarily. But I aspire to a better level of artistry than a cell phone video.

    Don't fret, Lawson. I will post these recordings very soon. Within the limitations of overdubbing oneself I will leave it to you to judge.

    Here - I've given you an assignment. Post your videos of Alfie and Georgia. That is only fair, no?. LOL....
    I use my phone all the time for recording, as I'm away from home, it takes two seconds, and very little time to upload.

    I'm not sure people are looking for a polished bit of music they are just excited to hear you play.

    The most enjoyment I get is HEARING all this and watching everyone improve. This includes myself.

  31. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by targuit View Post
    Hi, Lawson!

    I'm pretty content, as I recorded versions of Georgia On My Mind and Alfie tonight. The format I recorded was three tracks - rhythm guitar, vocal, and 'lead' guitar. I did Georgia first and Alfie last. I like them both.

    You must understand that the path of overdubbing yourself is not easy. But tonight despite the difficult I was reasonably content with the outcome, especially Alfie.

    As I said, it is easier for me to record than to post videos. However, these will go up. But I am not as tech proficient as you are. Ironically, I once posted a request for help with posting videos. The silence was deafening . I still use my cell phone as ....wait for it ... a phone primarily. But I aspire to a better level of artistry than a cell phone video.

    Don't fret, Lawson. I will post these recordings very soon. Within the limitations of overdubbing oneself I will leave it to you to judge.

    Here - I've given you an assignment. Post your videos of Alfie and Georgia. That is only fair, no?. LOL....
    To post a video (I'm assuming you don't have a smart phone, I don't either):

    1) make your video. Just about any video format is accepted by YouTube these days. Put it on your computer.
    2) upload it to YouTube. (There is an Upload option when you are logged in to your YouTube account. From here, browse on your computer to wherever you put the video file).
    3) once it's up on you tube, click the 'share' button underneath it on the YouTube page, this will give you the link. Copy and paste this link into your post on this forum.

    Simple.

  32. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by targuit View Post
    Hi, Lawson!

    I'm pretty content, as I recorded versions of Georgia On My Mind and Alfie tonight. The format I recorded was three tracks - rhythm guitar, vocal, and 'lead' guitar. I did Georgia first and Alfie last. I like them both.

    You must understand that the path of overdubbing yourself is not easy. But tonight despite the difficult I was reasonably content with the outcome, especially Alfie.

    As I said, it is easier for me to record than to post videos. However, these will go up. But I am not as tech proficient as you are. Ironically, I once posted a request for help with posting videos. The silence was deafening . I still use my cell phone as ....wait for it ... a phone primarily. But I aspire to a better level of artistry than a cell phone video.

    Don't fret, Lawson. I will post these recordings very soon. Within the limitations of overdubbing oneself I will leave it to you to judge.

    Here - I've given you an assignment. Post your videos of Alfie and Georgia. That is only fair, no?. LOL....
    Jay,
    You don't give me or anyone "assignments." I don't want to learn Alfie or Georgia. I'm working on other tunes. I'm not interested in recording my vocals, though I enjoy singing when no harm will come to hearers in my vicinity! Neither I nor anyone else have asked you to do anything except back up what you preach and lecture to us about and illustrate it. If it's stuff that's part and parcel of your musical life, it should be easy to pop 3 minutes of it up there to show us what you're talking.

    I imagine the reason nobody much replied to the request for help is that this is a jazz guitar forum, not a basic internet education forum. Posting files to public servers and posting links to them on a forum is a basic skill, kind of like reading music or tuning a guitar. If someone posted "How do I tune my guitar" likely few would respond.

    I am trying my best to avoid thinking of a phrase my friends from Texas use a lot: "All hat and no cattle."
    - Lawson
    "Whenever you come near the human race, there's layers and layers of nonsense." - Thornton Wilder, Our Town

  33. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop View Post
    Yes you can do that. Have a look at this example I did a while back. It's a harmonization of the first few bars of My Romance using the Barry Harris method.
    This is great--very useful!

  34. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by dingusmingus View Post
    This is great--very useful!
    There was more stuff in the original document, hopefully you can see it here:

    Barry Harris chord movements - My Romance

  35. #34

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    Graham - I appreciate what you suggest. I do not have a camcorder or camera that has a good video capability. But last night I recorded both Georgia On My Mind and Alfie. I am reasonably content with both. I will have two goals today - one to upload the financial aid documents for my son's college applications and two to upload a couple of videos to Youtube as expeditiously as possible. I'll leave it to any reasonable person to determine which task has the priority.

    Lawson - It is quite apparent that what is 'good for the goose' seems not to apply to the gander. I spent the past thirty years taking care of people in medicine, not whiling away my time on computers. I apologize to you for my lack of tech savvy and fancy gadgets, which as a doctor in the US today after years of price fixing by the Federal and State government and rapacious health insurance executives screwing physicians and patients, I cannot afford. (Of course, the pat line is that 'all doctors are rich' - LOL!) But that is another issue.

    I neglected to mention as well that my brilliant son as a teenager also tends to monopolize the home computer with iTunes which I use to convert the files. I am on a Macbook now which, hard to believe I know, does not have iTunes loaded, as I used it for business. I am sure I can find some way to get my videos up. I have done it in the past.

    Your comments about "all hat, no cowboy" will be embarrassing in the end, but not to me. I would suggest you contain your comments until I have the opportunity to post, which will be soon. Whether you like my playing or not will not be up to me, but whether I can play competently will be quite obvious.

    Funny, I thought that a healthy measure of civility and mutual respect had been restored on the forum. Apparently not. That includes former mean spirited comments by moderators as well as some obstinate posters. None of whom seem to have distinguished themselves in music. More's the pity.
    Last edited by targuit; 02-21-2016 at 10:33 AM.

  36. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by targuit View Post
    Your comments about "all hat, no cowboy" will be embarrassing in the end, but not to me. I would suggest you contain your comments until I have the opportunity to post, which will be soon. Whether you like my playing or not will not be up to me, but whether I can play competently will be quite obvious.

    Funny, I thought that a healthy measure of civility and mutual respect had been restored on the forum. Apparently not. That includes former mean spirited comments by moderators as well as some obstinate posters. None of whom seem to have distinguished themselves in music. More's the pity.
    I think you would have done well to end your post right before the quoted part above. In fairness you have been saying "soon" for about four years, Jay. Just leave it at the not being good with technology, and don't at all the rest.

    That you will undoubtedly "show us" soon doesn't change the fact that you, to date, have done more talking than playing. That's not an assassination of your character. Just a fact. There's really no reason to take offense at it.
    Last edited by matt.guitarteacher; 02-21-2016 at 10:51 AM.

  37. #36

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    Lawson -

    Since you are so skeptical of my ability (and I am not claiming to be the next "Joe Pass" though I can play much of his repertoire), perhaps you would inform us of which songs you are working on. Shame that you don't care for Alfie. Burt Bacharach, an esteemed composer in most musicians' eyes, deemed that song perhaps the finest of his works and that of Hal David, the brilliant lyricist. I tend to agree with Burt's assessment. It is a beautiful and challenging song. Perhaps you will give the lyrics some serious listening.

    Georgia On My Mind is usually a staple in the repertoire of jazz musicians, even if it is not Giant Steps with its vast audience. Written by a fellow by the name of Hoagy Carmichael.

    I am not a preacher nor a troll. I have composed some songs that perhaps you have not heard. One was a song I wrote in jest one morning at the breakfast table to entertain my son back in 2009 or so when Bernie Madoff's Ponzi scheme costing investors billions of dollars was finally uncovered after decades of incompetence on the part of the SEC and banks. Funny who the real fraudsters turn out to be, isn't it?

    Another was a song I wrote in 48 hours trying to make a deadline for a songwriting competition. It is called My Destiny. Although I'm rather proud of the lyrics and melody, I would like to re-record it in a more stripped down version. Another original again written to a tight deadline of a couple of days for another competition is a tune called City Lights - it is unusual in that it is a New Orleans style blues in which I play all the parts on my Roland GR-20 guitar synth. The only part I did not play myself on the guitar through the synth is the percussion Korg track. Due to the lack of time for editing it is too busy a tune - needed some serious editing - but the funniest thing is that when it was up on my YT site, one bright light complained "but where is the guitar? I don't hear it!" Perhaps it was one of our moderators here.

    But if you would like, I can once again post a link to my lonely Sound Click site - Jay Dreams. Interestingly they suggested that both tunes did rather well in their individual categories. I am a bit skeptical of rankings on these sites. I bet they tell everyone that their songs made better than top Twenty at one point.

    Edit - In the links I subsequently posted to my Soundclick originals (two), they actually had it as high as two or three in their Blues category. Out of several thousands. Don't know if the rating are real. But even a blind squirrel finds a nut sometimes. Actually two for two....
    Last edited by targuit; 02-21-2016 at 11:43 AM.

  38. #37

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    Matt - I simply speak what I perceive to be the truth. Sometimes it hurts. I recall many insults directed to me personally. Or is that a fabrication of my mind? One moderator called me a fraud and other terms. Of course, my songs were not on the level of his creativity.

    Did you ever listen to the links I posted for Sound Click? I'll see if I can repost them. Please listen with headphones as I hate the tinny sound of computer speakers.

    http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=10064955

    http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=10065052
    Last edited by targuit; 02-21-2016 at 11:24 AM.

  39. #38

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    So where have all the cowboys gone?
    Long time passing.
    Where have all the cowboys gone?
    Long time ago.
    Where have all the cowboys gone?
    Gone to church every one.
    When will they ever learn?
    When will they ever learn?

  40. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by targuit View Post
    Matt - I simply speak what I perceive to be the truth. Sometimes it hurts. I recall many insults directed to me personally. Or is that a fabrication of my mind? One moderator called me a fraud and other terms. Of course, my songs were not on the level of his creativity.

    Did you ever listen to the links I posted for Sound Click? I'll see if I can repost them. Please listen with headphones as I hate the tinny sound of computer speakers.

    http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=10064955

    http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=10065052
    Thanks Jay,

    I think that's all people wanted, we can now get a much better idea of where you are at with your development as a musician.

    Keep em coming!

    55

  41. #40

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    Thanks a lot grahambop. That was great

  42. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by targuit View Post
    Matt - I simply speak what I perceive to be the truth. Sometimes it hurts. I recall many insults directed to me personally. Or is that a fabrication of my mind? One moderator called me a fraud and other terms. Of course, my songs were not on the level of his creativity.

    Did you ever listen to the links I posted for Sound Click? I'll see if I can repost them. Please listen with headphones as I hate the tinny sound of computer speakers.

    http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=10064955

    http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=10065052
    That's cool. We've heard them. Thank you for posting them. If you posted some of the jazz standards you're always commenting on, it would help . It's not a big deal really. But if you want them to leave you alone about it, there is a point to be made that you talk about it and don't post them. Meanwhile, you challenge everyone on the forum to post something of a solo arrangement of specific jazz standards in a combative way.

    No one is making you do that. Whatever makes you happy. I'm happy to hear you play whatever.
    Last edited by matt.guitarteacher; 02-21-2016 at 02:21 PM.

  43. #42

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    No, actually I was hoping to hear some of your original music. But I will not malign you if you cannot produce it on demand or to accommodate my mood. I would point out that the blues tune I wrote and played entirely via the synth, which has latency issues, is an original.

    And I don't recall "challenging" anyone beyond suggesting that if my opinions need to be backed up by tangible musical product, I don't know why yours or anyone else here should not be held to the same standard. At least I do deliver once in a while....

  44. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by targuit View Post
    No, actually I was hoping to hear some of your original music. But I will not malign you if you cannot produce it on demand or to accommodate my mood. I would point out that the blues tune I wrote and played entirely via the synth, which has latency issues, is an original.

    And I don't recall "challenging" anyone beyond suggesting that if my opinions need to be backed up by tangible musical product, I don't know why yours or anyone else here should not be held to the same standard. At least I do deliver once in a while....
    Matt and Lawson have posted loads of videos playing jazz guitar, in various threads. You have posted one! They've got nothing to prove.

  45. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by targuit View Post
    No, actually I was hoping to hear some of your original music. But I will not malign you if you cannot produce it on demand or to accommodate my mood. I would point out that the blues tune I wrote and played entirely via the synth, which has latency issues, is an original.

    And I don't recall "challenging" anyone beyond suggesting that if my opinions need to be backed up by tangible musical product, I don't know why yours or anyone else here should not be held to the same standard. At least I do deliver once in a while....
    Okay, Jay. I have posted crap phone versions of standards a couple times in the last month or two. Very rough , humbling stuff. Lawson posts stuff as well. You challenged reg to post specific things, and he has actually taken the time to do so. You challenged Lawson to post Georgia, in this very thread, I think, didn't you?

    Anyway, it would be a lot more sensible for you to post something FIRST, if you are going to challenge people. I've got a crap version of Georgia posted in a Georgia practical standards thread here somewhere. It's complete with vocals in a bad key and solo guitar, as you always require, even though I didn't originally do it for YOUR sake. For the record, I have , in the past, upon your specific challenge, posted a solo version of a tune , before you did. It's your turn.

    Name the tune and you post it FIRST. there's no need to talk about how embarrassed we're going to be when we see you're playing. That's just obnoxious and not flattering to yourself. Please stop, for YOUR sake . I will post my best amateur version of anything you suggest. I like posting things occasionally. It keeps me humble, and from talking to highly of myself. It's a good spiritual exercise as well as revealing things about myself musically.

    I don't think I'm sandbagging or being too self-deprecating to say that I am an amateur and student in Jazz . There's nothing wrong with admitting where you are.

  46. #45
    It would also be respectful to start another thread on this topic. Jay, your track record of the derailing threads and making them about yourself is not great.

  47. #46

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    Matt -

    There is no way to appease you. No way.

    Let me tell you something very clearly. I don't like to post crap. And what I recorded last night will be up ASAP.

  48. #47
    Great. I never requested for you to play anything in this thread. I'm not dissatisfied. I simply commented on why there is some validity to what was said and how you might think about the way you talk about these things.

    Regarding posting crap, whatever.....

    You haven't posted ANYTHING, crap or otherwise, since "out of nowhere", however many months ago that was . Is that one still up? I don't really know. In the meantime, you have challenged countless individuals on this forum to post their own playing of pieces, which you choose, under very specific guidelines. You challenge and say that you will post something as well. And then, nothing. Whatever.

    I don't care what you post, Jay. I'm not demanding that you post anything. If you read this kind of statement as a demand that you post something, you are misunderstanding. I don't care.
    Last edited by matt.guitarteacher; 02-21-2016 at 03:30 PM.

  49. #48
    I've started another thread:
    https://tapatalk.com/shareLink?url=h...hare_fid=59439
    The not-Howard Morgan thread
    Last edited by matt.guitarteacher; 02-21-2016 at 03:37 PM.

  50. #49

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    This thread was about "chord melody." Did I ever mention how stupid i think that term is?

    Anyway, if we're going to have a measuring contest, can we at least measure that? No vocals, no multi-tracking...just...chord melody.

    Hey! Maybe we can make this educational...we're we to take a tune and describe our process...maybe?
    Jeff Matz, Jazz Guitar:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/jeffreymatz

    "Jazz is like life...it goes on longer than you think, and as soon as you're like 'oh, I get it,' it ends."

    --The Ghost of Duke Ellington

  51. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont View Post
    This thread was about "chord melody." Did I ever mention how stupid i think that term is?

    Anyway, if we're going to have a measuring contest, can we at least measure that? No vocals, no multi-tracking...just...chord melody.

    Hey! Maybe we can make this educational...we're we to take a tune and describe our process...maybe?
    That's a great idea, actually.