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  1. #151
    I just thought it was cool that if you basically know your diatonic 7th chords in drop 2, you also know your 6ths and 9ths for all chord types as well, by default. Of course there's a lot to be done with further extensions as well .

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #152

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher View Post
    I just thought it was cool that if you basically know your diatonic 7th chords in drop 2, you also know your 6ths and 9ths for all chord types as well, by default. Of course there's a lot to be done with further extensions as well .
    Yes, it's an economy of information that pays off in improvising as you are making lots of decisions in the flow of things. Less to think about.
    - Lawson
    "Whenever you come near the human race, there's layers and layers of nonsense." - Thornton Wilder, Our Town

  4. #153

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    Here's some stuff about quartal chords. This probably represents the total sum of my knowledge on this subject!
    Attached Images Attached Images

  5. #154

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop View Post
    Here's some stuff about quartal chords. This probably represents the total sum of my knowledge on this subject!
    many thanks! And thank you as well for the blank grid.

    I actually have two chord-grid rubber stamps, but no ink-pads!
    - Lawson
    "Whenever you come near the human race, there's layers and layers of nonsense." - Thornton Wilder, Our Town

  6. #155

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher View Post
    These diatonic subs are really handy for when things get too low in CM. In recent threads, we've had people describing the frustration of being stuck with basically playing a power chord because the melody note was a real low note as voiced in the original chord. Well, the fifth of the chord could now be played as the third of the lower diatonic sub and give you a little more color and fingering options.
    Regarding the melody being low, I think Howard Morgen writes about playing the melody in the bass with harmony above and also jumping octaves sometimes. Darn I can't remember in which book I saw that, lol.

  7. #156

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    I've put another "sketch" up over in the "Songs" section. It's "When You Wish Upon a Star" inspired by finding a Joe Pass clip on YouTube in which he goes totally Joe Pass all over this tune.

    I don't. But I don't think I do it fatal damage either.

    Check it out, and your advice has been so incredibly useful to me, I look forward to hearing (over there probably) your suggestions (except for "STOP IT!").

    I don't think I'm alone in thinking this thread has become extremely meaty and rich. Some serious ideas have been floating around, and I've learned some helpful stuff.
    - Lawson
    "Whenever you come near the human race, there's layers and layers of nonsense." - Thornton Wilder, Our Town

  8. #157

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    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone View Post

    I don't think I'm alone in thinking this thread has become extremely meaty and rich. Some serious ideas have been floating around, and I've learned some helpful stuff.
    The thread has become trully useful. Too much invaluable information for me to digest as fast indeed. Gracefully all the chit-chat derived to an amazing torrent of advice and information.

    Thank you all!

  9. #158
    destinytot Guest
    Love this: Arranging For Five Guitars (by Dave70, perhaps?).

    PS It says 'five guitars', but you can use this system on one guitar (by not doubling the melody in the bass - or by having another instrument play that part).
    Last edited by destinytot; 02-25-2016 at 07:46 AM.

  10. #159

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    Quote Originally Posted by destinytot View Post
    Love this: Arranging For Five Guitars (by Dave70, perhaps?).

    PS It says 'five guitars', but you can use this system on one guitar (by not doubling the melody in the bass - or by having another instrument play that part).
    Nice, but I can't take credit for it. Different Dave.

  11. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by destinytot View Post
    Love this: Arranging For Five Guitars (by Dave70, perhaps?).

    PS It says 'five guitars', but you can use this system on one guitar (by not doubling the melody in the bass - or by having another instrument play that part).
    Yeah. This has some good basic principles for dealing with six in place of major seven etc. , but these are basically close voiced in aren't going to lay out on the guitar as well, much of the time. This page is actually pretty good visual for referencing stacked voicings and understanding what you're "dropping" in drop two, three etc.

    I just think if you're talking about beginners and getting started with chord melody, close voicings would probably be pretty far down the list in terms of priorities. Mike, you're a better player than I, by far, and a more gracious one as well, so I'll defer to you if you have other thoughts. These are just what I see looking at it.

    If I had to take a guess at priorities for a rank beginner, from my own experience and what I've seen from others, it would probably be something like:

    1. Working on understanding and instantly "knowing" the chord tones represented on the higher strings which can be used for melody chords/voicings you already know, (majoring in those with root in the bass?) .

    2. A set of starting reference go-to voicings for CM from great players or from a teacher. (Joe pass has been mentioned. Robert Conti addresses it pretty specifically and in a purposefully limited manner in the beginning.)

    3. Shell voicings, (with or without bass) plus melody note added to the top, for workarounds of problem spots and for holes in knowledge at the beginning.

    4. Chord subs, diatonic and otherwise.

    5. Systematic inversions of chords using drop two, drop three ( and with replacement of roots with 9th, 3rds with 11ths etc. etc.) really working on purposeful and systematic fretboard knowledge at that point.

    If you had to prioritize things for #5 above, I'd think: drop 2 , drop 3 , and then "others" ( including close voice) would be order priorities for chord melody.

    .... anyway, that's completely me talking out of my arse. I would appreciate other's thoughts and criticisms. it's some point, there's a diminishing returns in being very systematic , as opposed to just working on subs of more outside harmony or whatever.

    These are just my initial thoughts. Numbers 3 thru 5 I would kind of think are happening at same time, maybe. It's hard to tell someone else what they should do . This is just my gut feeling on it. Your thoughts?
    Last edited by matt.guitarteacher; 02-25-2016 at 10:36 AM.

  12. #161

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    Here's a solo version of 'In The Wee Small Hours' I did a few years ago. I can't remember how I played that bit at the beginning where there's a descending harmony. I'll have to study the video and figure it out!


  13. #162

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop View Post
    Here's a solo version of 'In The Wee Small Hours' I did a few years ago. I can't remember how I played that bit at the beginning where there's a descending harmony. I'll have to study the video and figure it out!
    thanks for that! Lovely presentation of a wonderful song.
    - Lawson
    "Whenever you come near the human race, there's layers and layers of nonsense." - Thornton Wilder, Our Town

  14. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop View Post
    Here's a solo version of 'In The Wee Small Hours' I did a few years ago. I can't remember how I played that bit at the beginning where there's a descending harmony. I'll have to study the video and figure it out!

    Wow, Graham . Really nice, especially for that many choruses. Do you do solo numbers as part of your set ?

  15. #164

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher View Post
    Yeah. This has some good basic principles for dealing with six in place of major seven etc. , but these are basically close voiced in aren't going to lay out on the guitar as well, much of the time. This page is actually pretty good visual for referencing stacked voicings and understanding what you're "dropping" in drop two, three etc.

    I just think if you're talking about beginners and getting started with chord melody, close voicings would probably be pretty far down the list in terms of priorities. Mike, you're a better player than I, by far, and a more gracious one as well, so I'll defer to you if you have other thoughts. These are just what I see looking at it.

    If I had to take a guess at priorities for a rank beginner, from my own experience and what I've seen from others, it would probably be something like:

    1. Working on understanding and instantly "knowing" the chord tones represented on the higher strings which can be used for melody chords/voicings you already know, (majoring in those with root in the bass?) .

    2. A set of starting reference go-to voicings for CM from great players or from a teacher. (Joe pass has been mentioned. Robert Conti addresses it pretty specifically and in a purposefully limited manner in the beginning.)

    3. Shell voicings, (with or without bass) plus melody note added to the top, for workarounds of problem spots and for holes in knowledge at the beginning.

    4. Chord subs, diatonic and otherwise.

    5. Systematic inversions of chords using drop two, drop three ( and with replacement of roots with 9th, 3rds with 11ths etc. etc.) really working on purposeful and systematic fretboard knowledge at that point.

    If you had to prioritize things for #5 above, I'd think: drop 2 , drop 3 , and then "others" ( including close voice) would be order priorities for chord melody.

    .... anyway, that's completely me talking out of my arse. I would appreciate other's thoughts and criticisms. it's some point, there's a diminishing returns in being very systematic , as opposed to just working on subs of more outside harmony or whatever.

    These are just my initial thoughts. Numbers 3 thru 5 I would kind of think are happening at same time, maybe. It's hard to tell someone else what they should do . This is just my gut feeling on it. Your thoughts?
    Matt
    You summarize nicely the basic skills one needs under their belt to play in this style. In the development of guitar technique, the process of playing the harmonized diatonic scale has become pretty well established and I think we do well very quickly to master those fundamental voicings, summarized well by you above.

    When I worked through the Mel Bay Guitar Melody-Chord System 'way back before color television, that was what I learned, was that notes of the scale should always be thought of as sitting on top of chords. At some point I stopped thinking of isolated notes, but of notes floating on a pond of harmonic ideas. The "non-stacked" chords are part, I think, of the guitar's charm. We can easily play these more open voicings that pianists have to stretch a bit to find.

    An exercise I enjoy, and still do simply because it never gets old (for me) is to pick any note on the guitar and see how many different chords I can play with that note "on top." I give myself extra points if I can name the chord. Then I take a note and use it as a pedal tone to see how many different progressions I can play with that note on top. Some are chromatic, some ii-V-I, whatever. Another fun exercise is to make the chord stay the same and see how many notes I can find, or how many sequences of notes I can find, that I can play from that chord.

    Somehow that exercise always helps me lock into a chord-melodic mentality.
    - Lawson
    "Whenever you come near the human race, there's layers and layers of nonsense." - Thornton Wilder, Our Town

  16. #165

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher View Post
    Wow, Graham . Really nice, especially for that many choruses. Do you do solo numbers as part of your set ?
    Thanks Matt. I just play at home mainly, so in a way everything I do tends to be 'solo'. But I don't really do that many tunes in a proper 'solo arrangement' like this. I'm getting into it more though. In the past I've focussed much more on single-note playing, but now I'm really getting into the whole 'chords and harmony' side of things. Sort of a resolution for this year, if you like.

    I think I 'got the bug' when there was that recent discussion about the Barry Harris approach, and I got Alan Kingstone's book. Since then I've got the Randy Vincent drop 2 book and the Barry Galbraith comping book, so it's chords all the way now!

  17. #166

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    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone View Post
    thanks for that! Lovely presentation of a wonderful song.
    thankyou!

  18. #167

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    I always said I thought Graham was one of the best at his style on the Forum.

    Now he will become a beast at chord melody as well.

  19. #168

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    Amazing Graham!

  20. #169

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    Graham's post of "Wee Small Hours" reminded me... what a harmonically interesting tune this is. And it's slow enough that you can milk the changes. The basic lead-sheet changes alone offer some very tasty ideas. I am thinking about posting a clip, nothing as developed as Graham's but just in the interest of keeping the conversation going in such a helpful direction.
    - Lawson
    "Whenever you come near the human race, there's layers and layers of nonsense." - Thornton Wilder, Our Town

  21. #170

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop View Post
    Thanks Matt. I just play at home mainly, so in a way everything I do tends to be 'solo'. But I don't really do that many tunes in a proper 'solo arrangement' like this. I'm getting into it more though. In the past I've focussed much more on single-note playing, but now I'm really getting into the whole 'chords and harmony' side of things. Sort of a resolution for this year, if you like.

    I think I 'got the bug' when there was that recent discussion about the Barry Harris approach, and I got Alan Kingstone's book. Since then I've got the Randy Vincent drop 2 book and the Barry Galbraith comping book, so it's chords all the way now!
    Graham,
    As a mature, or advanced player who has decided to move this direction, what would you say are the most helpful things you've learned from these books? I hear a lot about Barry Harris but haven't really explored what his approach is. What were some of the best take-aways you got from these?

    I also love the way your line playing comes through. I still tend to play chords or lines, and haven't been very good at integrating them. My line playing is also pretty much "white bread" and poorly developed, so I have trouble incorporating it into my solo guitar playing.
    - Lawson
    "Whenever you come near the human race, there's layers and layers of nonsense." - Thornton Wilder, Our Town

  22. #171

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    Quote Originally Posted by targuit View Post
    I always said I thought Graham was one of the best at his style on the Forum.

    Now he will become a beast at chord melody as well.
    haha thanks Jay. I will see what I can do!

  23. #172
    destinytot Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher View Post
    Yeah. This has some good basic principles for dealing with six in place of major seven etc. , but these are basically close voiced in aren't going to lay out on the guitar as well, much of the time. This page is actually pretty good visual for referencing stacked voicings and understanding what you're "dropping" in drop two, three etc.

    I just think if you're talking about beginners and getting started with chord melody, close voicings would probably be pretty far down the list in terms of priorities. Mike, you're a better player than I, by far, and a more gracious one as well, so I'll defer to you if you have other thoughts. These are just what I see looking at it.

    If I had to take a guess at priorities for a rank beginner, from my own experience and what I've seen from others, it would probably be something like:

    1. Working on understanding and instantly "knowing" the chord tones represented on the higher strings which can be used for melody chords/voicings you already know, (majoring in those with root in the bass?) .

    2. A set of starting reference go-to voicings for CM from great players or from a teacher. (Joe pass has been mentioned. Robert Conti addresses it pretty specifically and in a purposefully limited manner in the beginning.)

    3. Shell voicings, (with or without bass) plus melody note added to the top, for workarounds of problem spots and for holes in knowledge at the beginning.

    4. Chord subs, diatonic and otherwise.

    5. Systematic inversions of chords using drop two, drop three ( and with replacement of roots with 9th, 3rds with 11ths etc. etc.) really working on purposeful and systematic fretboard knowledge at that point.

    If you had to prioritize things for #5 above, I'd think: drop 2 , drop 3 , and then "others" ( including close voice) would be order priorities for chord melody.

    .... anyway, that's completely me talking out of my arse. I would appreciate other's thoughts and criticisms. it's some point, there's a diminishing returns in being very systematic , as opposed to just working on subs of more outside harmony or whatever.

    These are just my initial thoughts. Numbers 3 thru 5 I would kind of think are happening at same time, maybe. It's hard to tell someone else what they should do . This is just my gut feeling on it. Your thoughts?
    Wow, Matt! I see that as a huge topic and challenge, one where it's easy to over-water the plant and (unintentionally) do more harm than good. I'm mulling it over, and I'll post tonight.

  24. #173

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    Quote Originally Posted by eduardosanz View Post
    Amazing Graham!
    thankyou!

  25. #174

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    Inspired by Graham, I've posted in the "Songs" area my beginning/intermediate level treatment of "Wee Small Hours of the Morning."
    - Lawson
    "Whenever you come near the human race, there's layers and layers of nonsense." - Thornton Wilder, Our Town

  26. #175

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    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone View Post
    Graham,
    As a mature, or advanced player who has decided to move this direction, what would you say are the most helpful things you've learned from these books? I hear a lot about Barry Harris but haven't really explored what his approach is. What were some of the best take-aways you got from these?

    I also love the way your line playing comes through. I still tend to play chords or lines, and haven't been very good at integrating them. My line playing is also pretty much "white bread" and poorly developed, so I have trouble incorporating it into my solo guitar playing.
    Ok those are good questions! The Barry Harris thing gives you a way of creating lots of movement going from one chord to another. Really it's a bit like creating a 'scale' out of chords, rather than single notes. The advantage is that all the chords are inversions of a maj6 (or min6) alternating with diminished chords. So that makes for a lot less chords to learn. Alan Kingstone's book covers this very thoroughly plus some extra stuff. The main takeaway for me is that it got me thinking about how to create more movement of the chords and inner harmonies than I would otherwise, and some tools to do it with.

    I've only just gone through the Randy Vincent book. It covers a fair bit of the Barry Harris method, but it also has some useful additions, like adjusting that approach when it doesn't always fit. I haven't studied the Galbraith book yet but listening to the CD, there are some great comping examples applied to well known tunes.

    I do find it quite hard to integrate single lines and chords when playing solo tunes. My method is to try and work out a sort of framework of the most important chords, try and really internalise it, and then hopefully that gives me some space to play single lines, but still hit a chord often enough to keep the sense of the chord progression going. So it's less improvised than when I play single note solos, I sort of have a plan to follow, maybe even some phrases worked out. To be honest I cannot just improvise that stuff like Joe Pass or somebody!

    By the way if you want to see some of the results of what I got from the Barry Harris method, see this thread:

    Barry Harris chord movements - My Romance

  27. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop View Post
    In the past I've focussed much more on single-note playing, but now I'm really getting into the whole 'chords and harmony' side of things. Sort of a resolution for this year, if you like.
    I'm kind of the opposite, but probably not as far along as you in either category. :-) I spent a lot of time working CM, like a large part of 2-3 years. Now I'm really trying to get the single line stuff together more, but I'm mostly an at-home player as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop View Post
    I do find it quite hard to integrate single lines and chords when playing solo tunes. My method is to try and work out a sort of framework of the most important chords, try and really internalise it, and then hopefully that gives me some space to play single lines, but still hit a chord often enough to keep the sense of the chord progression going. So it's less improvised than when I play single note solos, I sort of have a plan to follow, maybe even some phrases worked out. To be honest I cannot just improvise that stuff like Joe Pass or somebody!
    I kind of accidentally fell into this way of playing a year or two ago while working through some of Jimmy Amadie's enclosure stuff. At the same time I had been looking at Bert Ligon's similar material. Anyway, one of Ligon's big principles with learning new vocabulary is "on, before, after". In other words any line you're working, practice it beginning on the beat, before the beat, and after the beat. Since I had been playing so much with chords anyway, I just added the extra bit of making the chord the after or before bit rather than a single note. Once you start practicing simple lines beginning with a chord, then, same line but now, the chord's the target, it develops your ability to articulate chords at any time you hear them in your head...and far beyond the specific chords/lines you're practicing specifically. You can pretty quickly learn to translate the articulation concepts to anything you can play.

    And there lies my real problem. There's just so much work left for the single-line stuff for me. I kind of got into the jazz part of it later, after kind of falling in love with chord melody playing. But the articulation of integrated chord/melodic playing is not really the hurdle. It's an independent skill which I think you could work up pretty easily, and with your solid line playing... I'm telling you, it's not the hurdle you might think. Mostly just a simple articulation exercise. You've already got everything else in place. Whatever lines you're working, just practice beginning or ending with a simple shell voicing reference or whatever. Once you learn the feel and hearing, you should be able to apply to anything you can actually play, chords or single lines.

    I always thought that the integration part was "end game" stuff, but you can work on it at even at lower levels, like where I'm at. It's really just part of the "smoke and mirrors" thing.

  28. #177

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    You guys might be interested in an article on Howard:

    http://www.howardmorgen.com/docs/How...cle_8_2007.pdf

  29. #178

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    Quote Originally Posted by targuit View Post
    Just jumped up out of my pile of medical records under which I am temporarily ....err...buried (don't like to use those terms), but I was just wondering if anyone is familiar with a Kurt Rosenwinkel "clinic" (as Joe Pass used to say, "makes me feel like a doctor or something...") in which Kurt talks about how he approaches CM style playing using Body and Soul for illustration. I won't link it so as not to disrupt the flow here, but one can find it on YouTube by searching his name and Body and Soul. Unfortunately the video seems to cut off Kurt's head in the frame which is a bit annoying, but his playing is very nice and his explanations articulate.

    If you want to hear that fellow Peter Mazza I mentioned before do his thing with All the things you are, one can search that on YT as well. I'm not crazy about it as a listener myself, but his approach is different in terms of harmony.

    I intend to try and do some real spontaneous solo recording with my Tascam DR-05 of some of the tunes here, as I believe I can upload them more directly to my YT site. Got to finish a couple of more records in the pile before that - my wife is a tough taskmaster. She knows me too well...
    I re posted that last week

    Great vid.

  30. #179
    destinytot Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop View Post
    thankyou!
    Really enjoyed that - particularly the 'pretty' lines and double-time feel in the middle section.

  31. #180
    destinytot Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by targuit View Post
    I always said I thought Graham was one of the best at his style on the Forum.

    Now he will become a beast at chord melody as well.
    Lyrical, like Chet Baker - but advantaged by the guitar's capacity for chords/harmony!

  32. #181
    destinytot Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher View Post
    Yeah. This has some good basic principles for dealing with six in place of major seven etc. , but these are basically close voiced in aren't going to lay out on the guitar as well, much of the time. This page is actually pretty good visual for referencing stacked voicings and understanding what you're "dropping" in drop two, three etc.

    I just think if you're talking about beginners and getting started with chord melody, close voicings would probably be pretty far down the list in terms of priorities. Mike, you're a better player than I, by far, and a more gracious one as well, so I'll defer to you if you have other thoughts. These are just what I see looking at it.

    If I had to take a guess at priorities for a rank beginner, from my own experience and what I've seen from others, it would probably be something like:

    1. Working on understanding and instantly "knowing" the chord tones represented on the higher strings which can be used for melody chords/voicings you already know, (majoring in those with root in the bass?) .

    2. A set of starting reference go-to voicings for CM from great players or from a teacher. (Joe pass has been mentioned. Robert Conti addresses it pretty specifically and in a purposefully limited manner in the beginning.)

    3. Shell voicings, (with or without bass) plus melody note added to the top, for workarounds of problem spots and for holes in knowledge at the beginning.

    4. Chord subs, diatonic and otherwise.

    5. Systematic inversions of chords using drop two, drop three ( and with replacement of roots with 9th, 3rds with 11ths etc. etc.) really working on purposeful and systematic fretboard knowledge at that point.

    If you had to prioritize things for #5 above, I'd think: drop 2 , drop 3 , and then "others" ( including close voice) would be order priorities for chord melody.

    .... anyway, that's completely me talking out of my arse. I would appreciate other's thoughts and criticisms. it's some point, there's a diminishing returns in being very systematic , as opposed to just working on subs of more outside harmony or whatever.

    These are just my initial thoughts. Numbers 3 thru 5 I would kind of think are happening at same time, maybe. It's hard to tell someone else what they should do . This is just my gut feeling on it. Your thoughts?
    Following up on my short reply yesterday.

    I've pondered the list, and these five areas seem great to me - very systematic.

    It already seems to be implied (if not 'embedded') in the above list - which seems to cover a lot of physical considerations - but, for me, the music/tunes/songs need to be what drives those considerations.

    I think it's fair to say that ('pre-fab') voicings/fingerings/shapes are (obviously) useful tools - at any level of competence - but it's harmful to let those devices become a substitute for understanding how music works.

    I'll add that ear training is far more important to me than practising guitar - except when I'm preparing a 'performance' of some kind.

    Re. that last point I think Howard Morgen had a real gift for teaching music on guitar - in a way that empowers even 'rank beginners' to access beautiful sounds.
    Last edited by destinytot; 02-26-2016 at 05:46 AM.

  33. #182

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    One has to add that Matt's work and results are manifest in the music he has put up here. I am impressed.

    I have to admit, perhaps with my ADHD I have never approached things in as analytical and systematic way. I assume it is probably too late and improbable for me to change. But sometimes dedication and persistence pay off. I am going to take a chance and risk being seen as a fool.

    I am an emotional player at heart. I get moved by the music. When I hear Matt, Lawson, or Mike and others play certain songs, emotions well up in my heart and resonate in my being. This has been a very thoughtful week or so, and one suffused with emotions of joy and great sadness for some on the forum whose Mothers have passed away. The joy has been to participate in the creation - ok, not THE CREATION - but that of hearing the great talent, dedication, and determination of you all expressed in your music. The sadness the reminder of mortality and loss of those whose voices and comfort we will never again hear and experience on this earth. I feel that I have participated vicariously in the joy as well as the sadness. But the one thing that binds these emotions together is love. Love and passion for music as well as love for our parents and our children, a force that, like the subatomic forces holding the atom together, binds us to our fellows. Sometimes we forget that, and we fall into strife and divisions that drive us apart. But I believe that music is healing and gives us a gateway to a healing place for us individually and collectively.

    I don't know if there is a Heaven, or whether if there is, they admit the fallen like me. I don't know if I will ever be reunited with my Father in an afterlife, an amazing and brave man who conquered adversity and obstacles I can only imagine being strong enough to endure, whom I have thought of and missed nearly every day since one sad day in July many years ago when I was young and my future lay before me like an open road. After the shock and numbness of loss, music was my solace along with the love of my Mother and sisters. Music has always been a healing force like time and memories and a gateway to experience even if only transiently a greater power. And I suppose that is why it is a constant in my life as it is in those of us here, seekers of a greater truth and beauty to soothe our individual pain.

    I apologize for my arrogance, my moments of obstinacy and obtuseness. I hope you will forgive this post - out of place and irrelevant - but the power of music and its seduction and beauty seem so evident, and with the coincidence of the deep losses in the lives of some on this forum this week, I have more than once been literally moved to tears by the emotions unleashed. I am not ashamed to admit that. I would not do so to strangers, yet I feel you all are more than acquaintances, but in some deeper sense friends who can come together to aid each other work through adversity and pain each in our way. I deeply appreciate that, and like any man facing his mortality, I ask for forgiveness.

    Maybe it is all just a dress rehearsal.
    Last edited by targuit; 02-26-2016 at 07:48 AM.

  34. #183

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher View Post
    But the articulation of integrated chord/melodic playing is not really the hurdle. It's an independent skill which I think you could work up pretty easily, and with your solid line playing... I'm telling you, it's not the hurdle you might think. Mostly just a simple articulation exercise. You've already got everything else in place. Whatever lines you're working, just practice beginning or ending with a simple shell voicing reference or whatever. Once you learn the feel and hearing, you should be able to apply to anything you can actually play, chords or single lines.

    I always thought that the integration part was "end game" stuff, but you can work on it at even at lower levels, like where I'm at. It's really just part of the "smoke and mirrors" thing.
    Yes I think you're right, I just need to practise more stuff like this (it's not something I've been doing much). I tend to play lines that I visualise as being related to or built around chord forms anyway (I think Joe Pass said the same), so it should not be too difficult to join the 2 things up a bit.

  35. #184

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    Quote Originally Posted by destinytot View Post
    Really enjoyed that - particularly the 'pretty' lines and double-time feel in the middle section.
    Thankyou very much Mike! I must do some more solo stuff, it's a lot of fun working these things out.

  36. #185
    Jay, thank you for the kind words and for your thoughts generally as well. Good post . Thanks again.

  37. #186

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    Quote Originally Posted by destinytot View Post
    Lyrical, like Chet Baker - but advantaged by the guitar's capacity for chords/harmony!
    Thanks Mike - it's perceptive of you to say that (and greatly appreciated) - Chet Baker has been a massive influence on me. Just the way his lines are so melodic and unfussy, and beautifully poised. I've listened to so much of his stuff over the years that I can hear very 'Chet-like' lines in my head whenever I think about it.

    Whenever I'm undecided exactly how to phrase something, I often imagine how Chet might have played it.

  38. #187

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    Quote Originally Posted by targuit View Post
    ...

    I don't know if there is a Heaven, or whether if there is, they admit the fallen like me. ...
    Well Jay if only the un-fallen go to heaven, it's going to be a place with a lot of vacancies. Heaven is, I think, for those who keep their compass pointed that way, even if they might stray onto the wrong road sometimes.

    You've made a very heart-felt, transparent statement here. I regret also my harshness and testiness, and think this thread has been a rarity in the annals of internet conversations. It got off track, got harsh, and then got turned back and even transposed to a completely fresh level because the folks involved just decided to reach higher.

    That includes you. Forgiveness, grace, isn't just an act, it's ultimately the air we breathe, the water we swim in.
    - Lawson
    "Whenever you come near the human race, there's layers and layers of nonsense." - Thornton Wilder, Our Town

  39. #188

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    Nice post, Jay. I can appreciate what you're saying there.

    I may have disagreed with you on some things, I've probably 'pulled your leg' (as we Brits say), probably a bit too unkindly at times. But I always felt you were someone who really loves music and that's the important thing. And you've always been so appreciative of my playing, that means a great deal to me.

    I sometimes think everyone here is like those folks inside the wagon-circle in the old Westerns. We are the ones who love music, jazz, guitar. We're on the same side really, despite disagreements or arguments. The real enemy is something that's going on outside the wagon-circle, whatever it might be.


    (Oooh, you've made me go all philosophical!)

  40. #189

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    I have found a new tune I want to try solo-guitar: "If I Only Had a Brain."

    Not a commentary on anything, btw, but while I was shaving this morning, enjoying a particularly finely honed 70 year old straight razor, I was listening to jazzradio.com's jazz guitar channel, and James Chirillo came on playing this tune. It has a straight-up AABA structure and sounds like it could be fun to do. Plus it's familiar to people, has a little implied humor, and could be a set-freshening change of pace.

    I will be back with thoughts after I've experimented with it a bit.
    - Lawson
    "Whenever you come near the human race, there's layers and layers of nonsense." - Thornton Wilder, Our Town

  41. #190
    destinytot Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by destinytot View Post
    Love this: Arranging For Five Guitars (by Dave70, perhaps?).

    PS It says 'five guitars', but you can use this system on one guitar (by not doubling the melody in the bass - or by having another instrument play that part).

  42. #191

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    Thanks to all for the kind words.

    But I just spent hours putting together an audio video with some photos created with a version of Windows Movie Maker. Drives me a bit crazy. I had recorded some tunes last night - My Foolish Heart and Over the Rainbow - as just a simple guitar plus vocal track - live. No dynamics, no Autotune, no reverb other than the room - my studio (living room). So I created this project video with the intention to edit it with a better recording. As an aging old fa...gent..., I can't see print without my pair of classy CVS close vision glasses. But even with those it is a struggle to read the print of the lyrics. So I messed up a bit and even repeated a phrase in part because I couldn't see the page well. So many excuses, but the truth.

    So what do you think? Should I put up this 'imperfect' video on YT? My intention had been to figure out and load up the pictures and then re -record the tune during daylight, which helps my vision quite a bit. But I guess I finalized the project, not realizing I apparently cannot re-edit to substitute a better take. (...sigh...) I don't know what I'm worried about - after all, it's not like I'm Kanye and anyone is likely to Tweet the news on the deformed video. It is just a work tape recorded on my Tascam DR-05.

    Now that I have figured out at least partly how to use that Movie Maker program, I will quickly do another with Over the Rainbow and I think Days of Wine and Roses, as an instrumental this last one. But should I put up this Frankenstein monster of a video I did anyway? I suppose I could always take it down and replace it later.
    Last edited by targuit; 02-26-2016 at 02:27 PM.

  43. #192

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    I'd say put one up. You've seen what I post, it's far from being without flaws or gaffs. On one I even inserted my own heckling text boxes!

    Most of us on this thread anyhow are struggling to play even at an intermediate level and everybody seems very gracious about our efforts. Advice and counsel are given, but it's always positive and helpful.

    You have to decide what you want to do, of course. But I genuinely just enjoy seeing others' playing when I've had conversations with them, it adds to my sense of what they're like, who they are, etc.

    We're all in this together, you know?

    And I give anybody an extra dose of credit for singing. I can sing, and do sing at home, being an old coffee-house refugee from the folkie-hippie era; but I've never had the courage to try to sing jazz tunes. My wife likes to hear me sing "Wee Small Hours" but that's about it.

    You can always take something down and replace it with something that's better down the road.

    Here's a clip of "out-takes" I did on another thread where we were trying to learn a Jimmy Raney solo and posting our work each week. We all posted these pretty nice clips, you know, but I decided to pull the curtain back:

    - Lawson
    "Whenever you come near the human race, there's layers and layers of nonsense." - Thornton Wilder, Our Town

  44. #193

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    Thanks, Lawson.

    For someone with a perfectionist streak, perfect can be the enemy of the good. And I appreciate your good humor. My personality is complex. ADHD causes one to procrastinate. Having to do my taxes this year for my son's financial aid applications made it the first time I have filed ahead of April 15th in the years I have filed as a taxpayer. Not something I'm proud of. Just the facts. Curiously or perhaps significantly, two of my original songs were written in a deadline situation where I had no choice. What the heck? I can always take 'em down.

    This last week or two has been so positive in many respects. I am grateful for that. It is not easy to leave your profession behind - economically and psychologically. But I will survive that. We all have our foibles. Let it all hang out.

  45. #194

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    I just posted in "Songs" a basic treatment of "Body and Soul" for solo guitar. I'll post it here too since we're talking along the lines of arranging for solo guitar. This is my NEW 1999 ES165 "Herb Ellis" recently purchased from Joe DeNisco, who cares for guitars better than most people care for children.

    At about 1:10 or so there is some static that I can't figure out where it came from. Sorry about that!



    Comments, advice, counsel are of course welcome.
    - Lawson
    "Whenever you come near the human race, there's layers and layers of nonsense." - Thornton Wilder, Our Town

  46. #195
    Hi!
    listen to my last original composition "Magritte"

    cheers
    HB
    PS
    you do have such a beautiful name!" Lawson-Stone"

  47. #196
    destinytot Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone View Post
    I'd say put one up. You've seen what I post, it's far from being without flaws or gaffs. On one I even inserted my own heckling text boxes!

    Most of us on this thread anyhow are struggling to play even at an intermediate level and everybody seems very gracious about our efforts. Advice and counsel are given, but it's always positive and helpful.

    You have to decide what you want to do, of course. But I genuinely just enjoy seeing others' playing when I've had conversations with them, it adds to my sense of what they're like, who they are, etc.

    We're all in this together, you know?

    And I give anybody an extra dose of credit for singing. I can sing, and do sing at home, being an old coffee-house refugee from the folkie-hippie era; but I've never had the courage to try to sing jazz tunes. My wife likes to hear me sing "Wee Small Hours" but that's about it.

    You can always take something down and replace it with something that's better down the road.

    Here's a clip of "out-takes" I did on another thread where we were trying to learn a Jimmy Raney solo and posting our work each week. We all posted these pretty nice clips, you know, but I decided to pull the curtain back:

    This is hilarious - nicely done!

  48. #197
    destinytot Guest
    Previously posted elsewhere - trying out new toys a few weeks ago (Key 9, Joyo American and looper pedals & AER amp) on LIKE SOMEONE IN LOVE:

  49. #198

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    Another take on Body and Soul by Howard Morgen himself:


  50. #199

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    Mine is coming today. I have to wait for my family to wake up and get going before I rerecord a tune or two in my living room. My perfectionist streak is a bear - I just couldn't leave the recording I made as such. But the hardest part for me - dealing with Windows Movie Maker 2.6 (I think) - is done, so I just need to get a better recording without repeating a measure in the middle due to my lousy close vision and paste the song into the video. Now that I've got the hang of it, I will try to put up a couple. The video itself is the typical slideshow - hope the sunsets look nice or at least better than I do. I'm going to put up one of Body and Soul myself, too.

  51. #200
    This is Penthouse Serenade.

    Pretty straight, cheesy, old tune. Tons of quarter-note triplets. A few years I stumbled upon something, while playing this, that taught me a lot about phrasing, and which really helped with everything else I played afterwords. The second two videos are me just kind of practicing this as an etude for 8th note triplets. I did it with a click for the sake of clarity, though I don't usually use one.
    Anyway, you can use the triplet pattern to kind of move the beat around and mess with the phrasing. This is especially easy to do with this bridge because it's all straight quarter notes. Pretty fun exercise. Not sure the written description makes a lot of sense, but I always find this interesting. Easily amused I guess... :-)

    This second video is just a subdivision exercise. Straight Triplet play-thru of bridge with click. It opens with quarter-note triplets. For that section, I'm playing 2 eighth-note triplets for each quarter-note triplet. (So, there is an 8th-note triplet between between each melody note).

    Later, when the melody goes to "regular" quarter-notes, I'm also playing three 8th-note triplets for each quarter note. So, the least common denominator throughout is the 8th-note triplet.

    Here, I play the bridge straight once, and then "sub" quarter note triplets for the regular quarter notes. The first iteration begins with melody note on the beat. Then next begins with the thumb on the beat, displacing the melody note by one 8th-note triplet. I, then, move it around in various other ways on repeats. Triplet as reference for phrasing variations:
    Last edited by matt.guitarteacher; 02-28-2016 at 07:35 AM.