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Hi fellow guitar lovers. So, as title says, how do you learn fingerstyle jazz guitar?
First, I'm not a beginner, I play classical guitar at about grade 8, also some fingerstyle. I make fingerstyle arrangements of pop tunes and even compose a little, but when I hear something like this:
I'm totally overwhelmed. I mean I could learn these pieces by score or even by ear with some effort, but how can I make such style my own? I want to arrange, compose and improvise like this.
As I said I do make arrangements, but I rely on my ear almost completely so if I arrange for example traditional tune it goes like this - I learn melody and play it with chords that just sound good to me (not necessarily the ones that supposed to be in original). And though it sounds nice, I think I don't really understand what I am doing. And even though I know classical music theory, what jazz musicians do looks like a magic to me. I've tried reading some jazz books, but they jump to complex things immediately and I don't know what to do with this information of how to use it.
Sorry for such a random outburst, but can anyone please point me to the right direction?
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12-09-2015 01:35 PM
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My distillation from the limited knowledge I have is this:
Many of the hall of fame players were essentially self taught. They jumped into the pool or ran out on the playing field and just got after it. Their aptitude and drive allowed them to later mix and learn from others players as peers or sometimes as protege and mentor like Lee Morgan and Dizzy but the work is and was largely done on their own.
Monk nailed it when he said something or other about a genius being most like himself.
Use what you have and don't be second guessing your ability, just work and work hard at figuring things out. Reading is not the answer. Doing is what is called for. Then, and only then, instead of asking lazy mans questions and wanting to know everything you can ask very specific questions and the books may be able to help and not waste valuable time. It is likely there are things you do better than some of your favorite players. Because you can't play like them is nothing new. It's likely your favorite players felt the same thing when they were coming up and couldn't copy the players they had as their benchmarks. Read Miles' comments about his playing and what he could and couldn't do.
Jazz is built on the blues and it forms 2 or maybe 3 of the 4 cornerstones of the building we call jazz. It's not very complicated as a launching pad. However, coming at it from a classical Western music standpoint is like putting a metric wrench on an SAE bolt. Generally it works but for a craftsman it's lame and leaves you scratching your head asking what is wrong.
My Rosetta stone translator is that most of the jazz composers are thinking SAE patterns to your metric pattern and you're trying to reduce everything to 12 diatonic keys. You recognize the patterns don't match up and are looking for an answer. The SAE pattern in my opinion is simply a minor pentatonic form. When I hear a song such as In Walked Bud there is no need to go grab the Real Book to know what key it's centered on and what Monk was thinking. The first chord happens to be Fm in this case so soloing over the entire song with F minor pent works just fine. The diatonic writing in the Real Book will show the key as Ab major. This is the translation you are searching for and why it is the Rosetta stone. Take the key from the sheet music and use the minor pent form or reverse engineer it from whatever minor pent key you are soloing in and know that the key will be written in the relative major.
For me I see two primary devices being used in bebop/hard bop. What I call a packed minor pentatonic along with a half tone/whole tone scale.
The packed pentatonic for me is the blues scale with the 2nd and maj7 added. This allows the chromatic runs we commonly hear in bebop without stepping in the potholes or on the notes that lose the sense of a key center. When you start adding notes the scale can then be called whatever you want, bebop scale is one that sometimes gets thrown around.
The half tone scale is used to break up the pattern and keep things aurally interesting. Start off using it in the 9th measure of the blues (or you can think of it as the 1st measure of the 3rd set of 4) and then figure out where else you like it. This is why I'm often left shaking my head when I read in the posts here you need to practice major scales. Let's go learn to do a pick and roll on the basketball court that gets stuffed every single time before we now spend more time unlearning what we labored hours to learn. Unless you are playing Latin songs you need the major scale like you need a pair of white socks for a black tie affair. So use the pentatonic scale as your jumping off point and to it then add the 2nd or 9th depending on whether you care to call it William or Bill, then a b5 in my world or #11 in your world and then a maj 7 as needed. This allows plenty of chromatic runs for rhythmic effect and you can cram alot of notes in each measure when you stay relaxed.
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Hi Art_Harmonic,
Let me try to answer your question.. you can learn finger style technique by doing a few things..
Most valuable process you have already started, listening to guitarists who use the technique. This is most important.
(check out Ben Monder if you haven't already)
Don't use a pick (goes without saying right?)
As you go, you will learn some chords that sound best if you play all notes at once, some requiring all 5 fingers of your right hand (not a fast arpeggio via a pick). You can systematically practice each finger, combinations, all at once, etc -- come up with your own ways to practice the technique. There are many books out there, perhaps a few you worked out of already?
Practice with a metronome at a very slow tempo (as slow as yours can go). Be aware of not just your right hand technique, but listen to the full duration of each note. As much of the objective is to start each note at the next click (perfectly in time), try thinking of each note ending at the next click, and focus on making the duration or the tail of each note as important as the next note. Focus on eliminating any space in between the notes, and unnecessary movement in both hands (going from one note to the next in left hand) or (your right hand technique). Slow tempo is crucial. Listen to yourself and make adjustments.
Great you have studied some classical theory - AND that you make your own arrangements of tunes using the technique. Might I add, there is no such thing as "jazz chords". While there may be some chords only used in the style of jazz, really they are just Chords. All chords are simply that, Chords. (Many of the jazz harmonies are derived from classical music). Don't feel overwhelmed, rather that magic you say about jazz is most likely chords you may not have heard before, to rhythms that you might not have made you feel such a feeling. This 'magic' will keep your fire burning your whole life, so to speak. Embrace that. *But really, start checking out jazz harmonies. What makes a Maj7b5 chord a third from the root a 7#9b13? (or any chord appealing to your ear)? Tackle each chord you get in a chart hands on and try to figure out for yourself what it is. The study of harmony will be a snowball effect. More things you pick up, the more you can understand what a musician is doing. This takes a lot time, and I bet at each stage you will still feel you are only scratching the surface. Welcome aboard!
"It sounds nice, but I don't always understand what I'm doing". To make the style your own, follow what sounds nice to you, and of course try to understand what you are doing. Music can be effective and moving to someone without them knowing anything about it. Even to the one learning music.
Keep following your ear. Listen. Study. Practice.Last edited by fishytank1land; 12-11-2015 at 12:34 PM.
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Is there a course with structure to learn this style?
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Andrew York has written a series of books Jazz Guitar for Classical Cats, might be worth looking at.
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Mauro Giuliani's 120 Studies for Right Hand Development
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Probably. Jody Fisher- of the OP's sample video- has quite a few lessons on YouTube and of course one can probably take lessons from him.
Originally Posted by Marty Grass
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Learn them by ear, not by score. The effort of doing that, it seems to me, makes it more a part of your musical vocabulary. You absorb it more directly than learning by score and it starts to come out (disclaimer- I suck at this, it seems. I can pick up single note lines but have a harder time hearing chords well- and of course, because it's harder, I don't practice it as much which would be the cure for it being harder... Originally Posted by art_harmonic
Now, it seems that for the most part Joe Pass's solo jazz playing was mostly extemporaneous- he could play a song in any key (and would get bored and start switching keys at times), but most of us really can't do that. Another approach is Gene Bertoncini's solo pieces which are somewhat arranged with room for improvisation. Do listen to Gene, his playing is wonderful.
I start with learning the melody and seeing how it relates to the chords. I like hearing the melody or the lead line clearly with chords underneath, like a pianist playing the melody with the right hand and chords underneath. I don't like it to be too dense- some guys try to put a chord with every single note and to me it's often clunky sounding. The music should flow- often the melody by itself or the lead line by itself is fully sufficient. Don't overcomplicate.
I would think that a classical guitar background would be a good platform for this but may not have included much information about how to improvise. I suggest an old Howard Roberts idea- lean to improvise singing along with the lead line or melody of a recording; once you can sing it, you can find it on the guitar more easily. Eventually playing is like singing- you know where the sharps and flats are by ear and you just play them correctly. George Benson demonstrates this by scatting and playing what he scats.
Jody Fisher also has a bunch of very short, very digestible instructional videos on YouTube.
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What Jody is doing is very hard with a pick.
Listen to his right hand fingers, he doesn't pluck/hit the strings the same way. He alters his touch. Take your thumbs flesh and hit the E string with varying degrees of pressure; each time it will have a different sound. Now take your index fingernail and pluck the strings the same way. Now alter your fingers on the same strings; it should never sound the same. You get to a point where you control what you are doing.
More importantly, listen to his flow and rhythm. He is playing a fluid rhythm; it's not steady 8th notes.
I can't verbalize what I am thinking as well as some of the educated guitarists on this site, so the words I'm using may be confusing, but what I described above is the difference between a good musician and an amazing musician.
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You can make the style your own by copying the players music and licks. Some of the greatest jazz guitarists in the world were known to listen to records and figure out songs note by note. Basically, you fake it till you make it. Heck, sounds like you already have a good foundation, at least as far as Classical music goes. My suggestion to you is two fold. Number one, pick up a chord melody book, link is below. A Steve Crowell book cost like $20 or get another jazz players chord melody book. Number two, play and listen to jazz guitar from your favorite guitarists and start copying their licks, with all the nuances. Pick up on their timing, their use of timing, space and everything in between. Below are two links, one is on jazz theory and the other is to Steve Crowell's Chord Melody Books. Remember, there are many great chord melody books out there by other players other than Steve Crowell but that's who I started with. The pics are included only as educational materials as you clearly can't see much but it shows you how he arranges songs, music on one side with numbers underneath and on the opposite page are the numbered chord with their names and voicing to use. Bottom line is first learn the chord melody, then finger style it on your own. Another reason to buy books from the below link is, chordmelody sends you free handouts that are chord melodies done by Stacy McKee.
Steven Crowell Jazz Guitar Course
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Absolute MUST --gotta develop the right hand
M. Giulliani's "120 studies for the right hand " will help.
If you don't have the right hand technique, the repertoire will fail .
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From your post it seems that the problem is not in fingerstyle but in knowledge of jazz approaches to harmony- correct?
If you know and understand classical theory of functional tonality you should not have much problem to go through some basic jazz concepts...
But jazz does not have a theory elaborated and so integral as classical music ... often each player has its own approach.. besides to a great extent it is still liveing art and perception is changing...
So you must be prepared that not all the questions will have one definite answer and in many cases it will be worth to look from very different perspective...
What I would recommend to a guy with classical background...
General issues
1) Consider that though jazz often uses the means of classical tonality - they are usually localized, that is treated as one of a cocept for certain harmonic changes...
2) Another point jazz approaches are often strictly practical and do not necessarily represent actual harmonic situation of the whole musical piece or musical language (as in classical), rather they are elaborated to make it more convinient and facile to re-act in realtime playing..
3) after all - jazz is not about making arrangements and play it through, it's about playing and creating on the spot. You can do both opf course, but you should remember this because that's what the methods keep as a final goal too...
More practical
harmonically jazz operates with 7th chords - not triads... try to feel the difference deeply... Classical triads have 4-voices usually with one voice doubling one note, if you operate with 7th chords you have absolutely different tool for harmonization.. also 4-voices but no doubling...
First play the major scale with root in bass in chords.. try to get comfortable with the sound...
Then try to harmonize any melody you know with it, first thing you'll see that you can hardly harmonize the tonic note with tonic 7th chord in melody... which would be very common in classics.
Get the common drop 3, drop 3 shapes for guitar (all are available on this website)
Note: you can come across 'playing in triads' in jazz.. again here we have practical approach, in most cases it means triad over some bass or chord (making complex 7th chord as a final sound) and has nothing to do with classical triad concept
after this you could try to go through some typical jazz approach... like ii-v-i .. to dig into how it works...
I once came across Joe Pass Guitar Style book... though to me it does not have much about Joe's playing... but it describes 'classic' jazz concepts and chord classification very clearly...
I thin Barry Harris method as described by Allan Kingston for guitar is also very interesting and integral approach... but to my mind it is better to ago into it when you have already understanding of general jazz concepts.
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As you may have noticed by now, you should try to get your questions more precisely...
I try to answer the question, as I understand it:
There are quite a few method books and videos on the market on how to do chord-melody. Jody Fisher himself has written some of them and he also does an online workshop on the topic. I haven't checked them out, so I can't recommend a specific one.
There are some "free" video-masterclasses of Joe Pass and Charlie Byrd on youtube.
I've got most of my "solo-guitar-style" from this masterclass:
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Ask and ye shall receive.
Fingerstyle Guitar Lessons with Martin Taylor | ArtistWorks
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If you're very serious about this I would also recommend Berklee Online
Guitar Chords 101
Guitar Chords 201
Music Theory 201
Getting Inside Harmony II
Music Theory 301
Arranging 1: Rhythm Section
But that will cost you $9K
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You need to learn to play jazz.
- You need to know how to play a melody with jazz phrasing and how to solo
- You need to learn how to comp
- You need to learn how the bass works
Then when you can do these three things you need to be able to suggest that all these things are happening on the guitar at the same time. You can do this through counterpoint.
If you can play grade 8 classical, your left hand chops will be good enough for the present. There's more pressing work to be done IMOLast edited by christianm77; 12-18-2015 at 06:06 PM.
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Sounds to me like he's getting at the harmonic how-to's as well. I'd like some good resources as well for this for the complex , holistic stuff. I know a lot of it's probably compositional/theory materials and studies.
You also DO need to understand that Jody Fisher didn't start out playing that way.There's a whole learning process. First just learning to play the basic tune, like a jazz standard with standard progression. Then transcribe some versions with different harmony, even re-harmonization. I'm sure Jody did a lot of that in the beginning. No doubt he studied harmony/ composition as well.
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Thank you all for so much response, I'm digging into it, so much information and so much great advice, it gonna take time to digest all your comments, so I'm reading everything slowly, like a textbook
I guess what I'm looking for is systematic approach, something to structure my studies. In classical there is method books and syllables like RCM or ABRSM, is there anything like that in jazz?
Right now I picked some jazz tunes and trying to arrange them, also reading some books. The problem is that the books are overloaded with scales, chords, but I feel that there is very little system in it, so I think I'm learning more when I'm just arranging. I've read that jazz musicians don't associate improvisation with they key (like if the tune is in C major or A minor - just improvise in this scale), but use different modes and play them over specific chord, is that so? So to improvise a solo line you basically need to learn all the modes and which chord it corresponds?
Sorry for possibly stupid questions, though I have experience in classical, jazz is totally new world for me.
One thing that I was thinking of - I don't intend to play in ensemble, but jazz is mostly in uncomfortable keys with a lot of flats (oriented on wind players, I guess). I like more classical/fingerstyle approach to arranging, with extensive use of open strings and more connected phrasing/chord changes, so I stick with comfortable for guitar keys (C,D,E,A,G). Is it ok or I should follow flats tradition?
And the last one for now - can you recommend some good players in this style (unaccompanied fingerstyle jazz)? Something that I can learn from by listening/watching, I appreciate youtube links or just some names.
Thank you all again.
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