Conti Assembly Line Question

[fumblefingers]

It's a good jumping off point.

The "play only what you understand" argument is silly. I Mickey Baker'd my jazz for a good while back in the day until I actually knew some things. Like countless others, none of that rote playing hindered my understanding of theoretical concepts later.

I don't think there are many people here who can honestly say that they just started with notes on the fretboard and created all their own scales, chord voicings, and ways to do everything from chord melody to arranging on their own. Are we honestly gonna say that's a better way for beginners? It's very akin to saying the transcribing is a worthless waste of time.

I'm sorry, but Conti's book is no worse than anyone else's chord melody book that I've seen. I think it's much better. Maybe lighter on theory, but it's also much more practical than most of what's out there.

When you've had enough of this book, move on to something with a little more meat.

Tell me about it. I play a little classical guitar as a sideline and run through 30-80 studies at a time (easy ones that is) and i'm not doin' analysis on any of 'em!

then when i get with my teacher, he asks me all kinds of questions (what about the form, this phrase, that cadence, that chord, how shall we emphasize this line, fingering, etc. etc. the whole damn thing. yes, he's a composer and college educator too)

[MarkRhodes]

it seems to me that either one is learning harmony and arranging on the guitar (instant or otherwise) or they are not.

are we espousing that one should slavishly play chords that one teacher wrote down without understanding what one is doing? really?

if yes, then what do you do when you don't have the "master's" books around?

Conti has a once-common view of learning to play jazz: you learn it by playing it. In playing it, you come to more clearly hear it, and when you clearly hear it, the understanding of the theory behind it is more easily understood. This is how many first-rate players, some legends even, learned to play. As Clark Terry preached: imitate, assimilate, innovate.

If you were famliar with Conti's material, you would know that he says repeatedly, "Experiment with this, play it the way that sounds good to you. You don't have to play it like I play it. Just keep playing and learn good tunes." (He says that was the advice Wes gave him when he--Conti--was a kid. "Play the guitar as much as you can and learn good tunes." That's still good advice.

[fumblefingers]

i understand what everybody is saying here. for example, i'm a big Berklee and Leavitt fan. i think Berklee's library just keeps getting better and better. i'll recommend Leavitt to anybody, and yet i don' analyze those chord melodies either, i just play them. you do have to get things under your hands.

but if one is really desiring to become a great chord melody player - and - get beyond playing others' arrangements, they will have to know harmony and arranging too. a little helps a lot. more is better. put another way - how does one become like Leavitt or Conti themselves? education, whether formal or informal, is the key. or so it seems to me.

[fumblefingers]

Conti has a once-common view of learning to play jazz: you learn it by playing it. In playing it, you come to more clearly hear it, and when you clearly hear it, the understanding of the theory behind it is more easily understood. This is how many first-rate players, some legends even, learned to play. As Clark Terry preached: imitate, assimilate, innovate.

If you were famliar with Conti's material, you would know that he says repeatedly, "Experiment with this, play it the way that sounds good to you. You don't have to play it like I play it. Just keep playing and learn good tunes." (He says that was the advice Wes gave him when he--Conti--was a kid. "Play the guitar as much as you can and learn good tunes." That's still good advice.

yeah i know all of that. that's the "street" way, the historical way, almost the only way for many if not most legendary jazz masters. (although I think you skimmed over the "assimilate" part - severely).

but today? it's a choice. jazz pedagogy has exploded since the 1970s. today one has to practically hide from information, and with it, the ability to build knowledge.

i know of another self taught master who admitted that one could go to a school and learn it all faster than he did. he's right, they can. but its even better than that - they don't have to go to a school (college) if they don't want to.