-
And if so what do you think of them? And also his therory on playing Jazz lines?
thx
Ken
-
09-20-2007 11:34 AM
-
I have a number of Conti's products and they are well made and well laid out. He has a pretty good system for creating chord melody, and for developing lines.
The downside to his approach is, it is self limiting imo. It is a cut and paste approach, so not really improvising imo. However, I do think it is a good place to start, and I have enjoyed his stuff.
Also, by all accounts, Robert is a very nice and generous man. I have no qualms about recommending his products but it is a one size fits all method.
-
I have several of his chord solo books and they sound nice and you can see how it really works. I also have his Chord melody assembly line, not sure if this is the real way chord meoldies are constructed, i love love more imput from others who may have used this system.
Thx
Ken
-
The time I really like using his chord melody method is where there is a strong melody, but harmonically, there isn't a whole lot going on. With Conti's approach, you can spice it up by applying a chord for each melody note if you want it that dense. So applying this to say an Eagles tune like "Desparado" really makes it a wonderful chord melody tune.
Or, you can thin it out more with single notes. But if you have a simple chord progression with plain vanilla changes, you can really breath some life into it by utilizing his method.
However, some will argue this approach is not jazz. One of the keystones of jazz is improvisation, including chord melody. This method calls for a specific chord for each specific note.
-
Well i think it's jazz and it gives you an idea how a chord solo looks and then you can add to it by adding some lines in between chords. I do have his Jazz lines books and i must say it is a completly different approach to improv. Not sure what route i should go.
ken
-
One of the common situations is with the glut of books, videos, competent teachers, and helpful websites like this, it is easy to get overwhelmed by it all.
My mo includes starting a book, getting a couple of pages or so into it, and then losing interest and moving to something else before fully exploring the first one.
I have started studying improv with Tony DeCaprio the past couple of months Tony DeCaprio - Jazz Guitarist Maestro via streaming video lessons online, and am going to stick with him. It seems to be a situation of finding something you like, and just hanging in there with it.
BTW, if anyone is looking for an absolute master to study with, Tony is great. Real time video, he pops up on your media player, and you can im questions. He tailors the lesson to suit you, and then sends you the file via heavy mail. You can then rewatch anytime you like, and burn to dvd if you wish.
I have studied with a number of people over the years, and I can't recommend Tony enough.
-
I think Conti would be a bit overwhelming for the average player. It's easy to get lost in chord melody as there are many alternatives for harmonization. But regardless, the key is really knowing the tune before attempting Conti.
-
Yes Conti's chord melodies do sound very nice...Although i'm not crazy about his Jazz lines book. i have thesame probelms alot of people do, going from one thing to another. I can play over changes fairly easliy, but it sounds to much like scales... I need lines sound good and would like to include the melody in my lines
Ken
-
I felt compelled to write this note because of how much I have already learned from Robert Conti, and there is more to learn!
I have only had about two dozen lessons in my whole life. However, I am an avid reader of guitar methods and I have learned a lot over the years from others or on the job. A big opportunity for me is to do more transcribing and work on developing my ear for changes.
I have been playing every chord melody arrangement Robert Conti has published in JJG. My wife hears these songs and a a result, she bought me some Robert Conti books for Xmas; Jazz lines, Chord Melody Assembly Line, and Intro/Endings. Then I bought two of his chord melody collections. And for my birthday, The Formula and Precision Technique will be arriving next week. I am completely overwelmed! I was just wishing for "The Formula" so I could understand his concepts on re-harmonization.
Conti says over and over not to play his arrangements and lines note for note - but to mix thing up, play fragments, connect different phrases (learn the licks and how to apply them), play every other chord. In other words, don't limit yourself to anything rigid, this is jazz!
The Jazz Lines - The book is based fundamentally on one simple little trick of moving patterns to create altered lines. I wish I had thought of that! As an intro to the concept, watch DVD on how he apples the concept to Green Dolphin Street. There are a lot of good licks and harmonic devices and bluesy quotes. Robert Conti's technique is really developed, strong sweep picking with an ability to skip strings at will. I am not a strong reader but I have gotten through the book. Next steps: Play though it a couple more times to get everything, layout some changes in BIAB and cycle through the keys with his lines.
The Chord Assembly line - I have read other books on this concept, this is a good intro to chord melody. Adding voice leading extensions to written changes to pickup the melody is how I play chord melody. Conti had some chords I don't normally use, and there are many I use he didn't list in the book. Joe Pass, Van Moretti, and the original Micky Baker V1 methods are a good compliment.
Chord Melody Arrangements - I love these arrangements. Conti's method of chord grids and alternate harmonies allows one to read the changes and chops quickly. It is required to know the basic song changes (with voice leading) and keep them in your head when playing the arrangements. At any time you loose the "Conti" line, play the std form until the lines come back into your head. This helps me recognize Conti's line substitutions. The point is, one doesn't have to play all the chords (I know, because it is there and I am trying to learn them). These arrangements are like a rich dessert, even a little goes a long way.
The Formula - Remember, this is the book I wanted to buy (my wife is a Saint). I hope to understand from this book the 'rules' of Conti's lines to help me apply them to songs I play.
Long story short, I want to internalize the substitute lines; chromatic transitions, ascenting/decending changes, tri-tone tricks, etc. It really adds depth and I like this style. Robert Conti method quickly teaches how to do this without having to invest the time to transcribe the changes off records (if I even could), this is why I rave about his work.
Highly recommended, I expect I'll spend the rest of the year working on all the books I have been gifted.
Robert Conti is a real master.
-
I certainly see the appeal of Robert Conti's approach, and I like his playing (own 2 of his cds), and as I stated above, I sometimes use parts of his chord melody approach when arranging tunes. However, it is a paint by numbers approach.
His lines get you some vocabulary quickly, and show you how to use those same lines in a variety of contexts, so you get alot of mileage out of them. However, this approach will only take you so far. Imo, Conti (a great guy by all accounts) can really help beginners and those who aren't very good readers get up and running pretty quickly.
-
I think john4jazz pretty much summed it up. So far for me, Conti is the only thing I've bought that really explained it in a way I could understand.
I look at his chord melodies as an outline or a shell and the more I play the arrangement, the more I add my 2 cents.
His prices are very reasonable. Lessons with a teacher are about 25 bucks per half hour.
With Conti, you get a 3 or 4 hour dvd.
Luthier Jimmy Foster once told me that when you learn someone else's chord melody, you're being forced to think like them. He told me to play it like I hear it in my head. (easier said than done)
So, with Conti's stuff you're able to hear the possibilities, then make it your own.
So, I tried Jimmy's advice and it blew my mind.(not a big explosion)
I recommend Conti's stuff.
-
I've studied with Conti, as I mentioned on another thread. Honestly, he's a great jazz player--certainly a unique style. He's also a great guy.
Conti's lines and approach to chord melody, substitutions, etc. are great things to look at and learn, but beyond that... dissect it. Learn why he's doing what he's doing. Just playing something that Conti showed you will not make you a better jazz player. Here's what will:
Take a Conti line. Learn it. Apply it over several chord changes. Internalize the sound. Then, analyze the line. For instance on a 2-5-1, one of his lines might use a strong ii arpeggio with an occasional b5. (I'm just making this up...) Learn what that sounds like. Lastly, do two things.
1) Take his lines and change them. Make them your own.
2) Take the concept that his line was based on (again, for example, the ii arpeggio...) and create your own lines.
Conti's methods are a way of getting players on their feet. He helps players achieve a jazz "sound." Get your ear used to that sound... then go make your own.
-
The Robert Cont chord-melody books are fantastic...especially for beginners... who want to start playing jazz tunes on their own with no other instrument.
I think a lot of people with mildly negative comment in previous comments are misunderstanding what those books are meant to do....
The Chord-Melody Assembly Line will
1) teach you jazzy sounding chords.
2) teach you how to play any of the 3 main family of chords (major, minor, dominant) with ANY given melody note on top in one or two versions.
Hell...forget jazz...that last one is something ANY guitar player should learn to do. It's useful in all styles.
3) teach you to play short songs (typically the head of a jazz tune) by yourself
It won't teach you to improvise inside the arrangement and was never intended to...but the target audience of this product (intermediate level players) doesn't have the background for that anyways.
It won't teach you how to handle your 2nd and 3rd passes through the progression.
The system works best with ballads. You won't really be able to use the system (to the letter) on an medium, up-tempo tune since it is very chord intensive.
Still very worthwhile and very meaty. A good brain and hand work-out.
The Formula builds on top of the Assembly Line and gives you some more chord choices for a given melody note and shows you how to fill in the spaces when a melody note is held for more than a beat. It will also get you using and internalizing the cycle of fourths in a big way. Again, a great brain workout.
It's tough to find anything bad to say about his chord melody books and arrangements. There's nothing in there that is not worth learning.
I wouldn't however, only learn to play play this style of chord melody exclusively. You should also look at some of Howard Morgan's stuff (for example) to see different approaches which are less chord heavy and have a bit more air in the arrangements.
-
I like his no-nonsense and no-BS anti-method approach. His playing sounds as good as anyone. What's the problem?
-
thanks for some references, going to check them out
Originally Posted by peterk1
-
HI there. I have Conti's The Formula and some of his chord melody's arrangements...anyway I have a dilemma..should I buy the CM Assembly Line? I'm starting on CM ( I have Jody Fisher,Mickey Baker, Howard Morgen and Arnie Berle) and Conti's Assembly Line may be a bit redundant..any way curiosity killed the (Jazz) cat..should I buy it? (it's pricey).
-
I have a lot of the same stuff you have listed there, and I don't think the CM Assembly Line will be redundant. If anything it will solidify and make more useful the stuff you learned in the other books. It's organized much better than any other CM method book I've seen....but with a narrower focus.
I went through it 2 years ago and it still serves as a good reference. I keep going back to it to see what the possibilities are for a given melody chord over a given chord. I bought the book-only version first and thn when the DVD versions came out I bought it again.
-
thanks a lot.! I will give it a try.
-
I agree with Peterk, I don't think it would be redunant at all. In fact, one of the things Conti does really well imo, is all the examples of possibilities for various chord progressions and melodies. The Formula lays out why he does what he does, and the Assembly Line gives you lots of really practical examples. Originally Posted by nomelite
I think that is the correct order. His stuff is layed out differently than anybody else's and since we all connect with various styles of teaching differently, I think it is a good idea to have a variety of takes on the same topic.
-
thanks again Derek!
-
The Formula is more advanced than the assembly line (unless I have his product names mixed up). It would be more natural to do them in the opposite order.
Assembly line teaches basic CM.
Formula teaches more advanced reharmonizations using the basic CM.
Assembly line is going to teach you how to get a chord with a given melody note and how to string them together.
-
Thanks again for your input, peterk1. What happened is that I'd bought The Formula because I was more interested in chord substitution than in Chord Melody. Now I'm really interested in CM and that's why it seems I have to complete the picture with CM AL. thank you!
-
I don't think it matters too much what you are studying - but that you are actually studying and following a plan that you complete. You'll need to create your own plan based on how much time you can give it - and also plan that you'll probably have to play through everyhting at least fifty times before its beginning to be ingrained in you head amd hands. Howard Roberrts said he had to play througgh a tune about fifty time before he was ready to work out improvising around it so...
By establishing the 50x routine you can then work out how long it will take to learn each line - I'd suggest you give yourself 10x per day for five days and then work out how long it is taking you to finish one line - say 30seconds a line slowly - so a book with 100 staves is going to take you 100 x 50 times x 30secs = 2500 minutes = 42 hours. Add some regular breaks to your practice routine and the best you'll manage is two hours of playing with probably another 30% of breaks. That's about a month of real tough working. Even if you take two months - its better than dipping in and out of a buffet bar of material with no structure to your study.
I think my appraoch to practice changed quite a bit after reading the books on 10,000 hours to become an expert - such as The Talent Code or Talent is Overrated. It's all about the quality of your practice is what research shows.
-
Re Robert Conti-I have used his system for CM and it works.Once you see how he reharmonises various tunes it gives you the basis to go on and learn how to do your own arrangements.Dont knock the guy after all he played at the Bellagio in Las Vegas for ten years so he must have been doing something right. As he says tunes/chord melodies evoke memories and while you may want to play blistering lines just watch the audiences eyes glaze over as you get to the second chorus! We all want to be great jazz guitarists but even Wes had to play "tunes" to get a wider audience.Joe Pass was also very melodic.So watch and learn,stick with one teacher that makes sense to you otherwise you will just be a collector of "how to books"
-
Jazzuki +1
Reply With Quote
Grant Green, What is This Thing
Today, 01:59 PM in Ear Training, Transcribing & Reading