Robert Conti - The Formula

[tbeltrans]

Hey, Tony, great playing! That Conti guitar sounds super. "When I Fall In Love" is such a great tune.

Question: does the spot for the guitar cable ever rub against your leg when you play? (I noticed Jimmy Bruno's guitar seems to have the cable coming out of the strap pin---that seems like a great place for a cable to me!)

You really walk the walk. It's a pleasure to hear you play.

Just placed an order for "The Formula" and Vol. 5 of Conti's chord melody arrangements. Man, am I psyched!

Thanks for all your sound advice.

Thanks Mark! No, Conti placed that spot for the guitar cable (according to something I read on his site) specifically so it doesn't rub against your leg. I don't have any trouble. That guitar really is a pleasure to play. I was looking for something that I wouldn't have to worry about when playing in a band. The Conti guitar is inexpensive at $1649, but apparently the price is going up either next month or the month after due to cost of materials, shipping, etc. So I decided now is the time. Since I already have several of his products, I figured his guitars just might be that good too - and they are! It is certainly a lot of guitar for the money.

I am playing through my Henriksen amp, which simply does well with archtops, and the Conti is no exception.

Tony

[artcore]

Peerless guitar, looks a little like the hofner very thin....I have not had a chance to try out a peerless but they seem to be really nice......I wish the body was a bit smaller...

[tbeltrans]

Peerless guitar, looks a little like the hofner very thin....I have not had a chance to try out a peerless but they seem to be really nice......I wish the body was a bit smaller...

I was a bit concerned about some of the dimensions of the Conti before it arrived, but have found it to be very comfortable instrument to play. The lower bout, though larger than my Johnny Smith is still quite comfortable, probably because the body is much thinner. The nut on my Johnny Smith is 1 3/4", while the Conti measures 1 11/16". Probably due to the string spacing, I am having absolutely no difficulty with the Conti in that area either. I really like the full 24 fret access because I can really play chord melodyy way up there. I have never seen a Peerless before, so I don't know if they are all of equally high quality or if they all have similar appointments as the Conti such as the solid top, back, and sides, real abolone inlays rather than plastic, full binding of headstock, neck, and the usual around the body. The quality is quite high on this instrument and I have found absolutely no flaws in mine. The gig bag is built very well and does protect the guitar. It is as heavy duty as the bags that my Henriksen amp and speaker go in. As I understand it, this guitar is built to Conti's specifications. When I ordered by phone, he told me that he plays one for all his videos and gigs, and his is stock (i.e. he doesn't swap out the pickups or anything like that). I would say the price is misleading in that if you were to judge this guitar by others you may have seen selling new in this price range, nice as they may be, I think you (me, anybody...) would be underestimating what this instrument is. I really enjoy playing this guitar and have not had the sense that I wish something or other about it had been done differently. I have nothing to gain financially by saying this. I purchased from Conti because I have had good luck with all the learning materials I have gotten from him over the years and have found all my dealings with his organization to be straight up and no hassles. I figured that since I am into his methods, I should try one of his guitars. So I am trying to convey an experience here that we can't, unfortunately, have by trying the instrument in a local store. It really is all that owners of this guitar say it is. I own a vintage Johnny Smith, and though there really is something about such an instrument that puts it in a league of its own, among the lower cost alternatives, I think the Conti is a clear winner. Not everyone wants or would afford a vintage Johnny Smith, but I think the Conti is within reach of most of us. From the perspective of playing, I could be happy with either instrument, and that is saying a lot about the Conti.

Tony

[artcore]

Thanks for the info....it has me thinking about it....I've watched the videos of guys sitting down and playing and I'm thinking that looks a little awkward with the size of that body, but I guess it depends on what you find comfortable and how you hold the guitar..

[MarkRhodes]

I really like the full 24 fret access because I can really play chord melodyy way up there.Tony

That appeals to me too. My Ibanez Artcore has a shallow cutaway and I'm a big guy, so it's a strain to play some of Conti's chord shapes up the neck. (For example, the highest voicings of the F chord shapes from "Assembly Line.") I can make do but when I can get a better guitar, I want one with a better cutaway that allows access up the neck. (And only one pickup, two knobs....)

[tbeltrans]

Thanks for the info....it has me thinking about it....I've watched the videos of guys sitting down and playing and I'm thinking that looks a little awkward with the size of that body, but I guess it depends on what you find comfortable and how you hold the guitar..

If you saw my video, I hold the guitar in a sort of classical guitar position using a strap istead of a footstool. The fingerstyle player, Steven King (not the author) talked at length about doing this in his Taylor seminars he used to do. It made sens to me ad has worked for me since. I can stand up or sit down and the positioning remains the same so there is no adjustment and it is easy on the hands and wrists.

Tony

[tbeltrans]

That appeals to me too. My Ibanez Artcore has a shallow cutaway and I'm a big guy, so it's a strain to play some of Conti's chord shapes up the neck. (For example, the highest voicings of the F chord shapes from "Assembly Line.") I can make do but when I can get a better guitar, I want one with a better cutaway that allows access up the neck. (And only one pickup, two knobs....)

Fro that perspective of using Conti's materials, it makes perfect sense to use the guitar designed by the guy who pplays that way. (At least that was a part of my thought process while deciding to get that instrument). You can spend a lot of money on an archtop and not get that 24 fret clearance. My Johnny Smith was more money than I have spent on any two or three guitars, and (as wonderful as it is) it does not have that clearance. Conti did that because he uses that area a lot. Rather than just putting out a guitar to have his name in that market, he put out the guitar he would (and does) want to play. I am reasonably sure there are other instruments that provide that clearance, but Conti does it while still having the short scale and all the frets are playable. I think this guitar is unique because of that, among other things.

Tony

[MarkRhodes]

Fro that perspective of using Conti's materials, it makes perfect sense to use the guitar designed by the guy who pplays that way.

That makes sense, though I'm sure Robert Conti doesn't want potential students to think his method works only with his guitar!

I have two questions.
One is about your 'classical style' of holding the guitar without a footstool but using a strap instead. I always wear a strap (and play seated) but I don't hold the guitar that high. I used to try lots of different positions but it is only since giving Conti's "Precision Technique" a couple months that I feel my picking is solid enough to make OTHER adjustments worth considering. How did you hold the guitar before?

The second question is about strings. Conti doesn't use flatwounds. I assume the Conti came with the strings Conti uses--what do you think of them? (And more important, how often do you need to change them? I've had my current set of TI .011s on my guitar since last August and I play 2-4 hours a day; that's serious mileage!)

[monk]

I can stand up or sit down and the positioning remains the same so there is no adjustment and it is easy on the hands and wrists.
Tony

Tony,
Excellent! You've touched on a very important point here. Most of us practice while sitting and play while standing which creates a different angle on the guitar and the way the hands address the fingerboard. I discovered this years ago when my execution on the bandstand was always several notches below that of the practice room. When it finally hit me what was causing the problem, I began to use a strap to keep the guitar in the same place all the time and was able to acheive a balance between practice and performance.
Jerome

[MarkRhodes]

Tony,
Excellent! You've touched on a very important point here. Most of us practice while sitting and play while standing which creates a different angle on the guitar and the way the hands address the fingerboard. I discovered this years ago when my execution on the bandstand was always several notches below that of the practice room. When it finally hit me what was causing the problem, I began to use a strap to keep the guitar in the same place all the time and was able to achieve a balance between practice and performance.
Jerome

And now the kid in the dumb row raises his hand: "I know that the theory holds that if you wear a strap and sit, the guitar will be in the same position when you're standing, but does it actually work out this way for everyone?" It doesn't seem to for me.....

(If that makes no sense, well, it won't be the first time I've been guilty of that.)

[monk]

Mark,
Obviously. I can only speak for myself. I started wearing my guitars mid-chest a la Roy Buchanan and Les Paul about 35 years ago. That's high enough so that it remains in place whether I stand or sit. Another benefit is that when playing seated in a big band, it's customary for soloists to stand during their solos. I don't have to worry about the guitar shifting or moving around if I'm called on. I can stand up and get right to work.
Jerome

[tbeltrans]

That makes sense, though I'm sure Robert Conti doesn't want potential students to think his method works only with his guitar!

I have two questions.
One is about your 'classical style' of holding the guitar without a footstool but using a strap instead. I always wear a strap (and play seated) but I don't hold the guitar that high. I used to try lots of different positions but it is only since giving Conti's "Precision Technique" a couple months that I feel my picking is solid enough to make OTHER adjustments worth considering. How did you hold the guitar before?

The second question is about strings. Conti doesn't use flatwounds. I assume the Conti came with the strings Conti uses--what do you think of them? (And more important, how often do you need to change them? I've had my current set of TI .011s on my guitar since last August and I play 2-4 hours a day; that's serious mileage!)

There is no way that one must use a Conti guitar to work with his method. Your comment was probably in jest, but people reading this might not realize that, so I need to make this clear:

1. I have been working with the Conti materials much longer than I have owned a Conti guitar (I only got it a week or two ago and have posted here longer than that as proof). I have only gotten an archtop to use with the method recently, having used a classical guitar and then an acoustic steel string parlor guitar prior to that. All these instruments worked fine. You would need to contend with wrapping around your chord forms when you can't get much beyond the 12th fret, but that isn't a bad thing - it helps you understand the fretboard.
2. Conti would never claim he invented any of the musical aspects of his methods. Everybody has been using what I am referring to as the "Assembly Line" chords for many, many decades in jazz and other musical situations on all manner of guitars. Considering the Conti guitar only came out a few years ago and Conti wrote his books long before that, his guitar could not possibly have had an effect on how he wrote the method.

My point was simply that an advantage of the Conti guitar is that you don't need to wrap around at the 12th fret because you can go all the way up to the 24th fret easily.

With regard to the classical manner of holding the guitar, I have always done some form of that, probably because I have always preferred to use my fingers. Most people seem to rest an acoustic guitar on the right leg when sitting down to play. that always seemed really awkward to me because the player's elbow is then sticking way up in the air. To me, that feels really uncomfortable, and I wouldn't doubt it causes its share of physical problems after a while. With electric, I see people having the guitar slung rather low. It may look "cool" in a haphazard sort of way, but the angle at which the wrists are bent looks very awkward and prone to damage. Proof of this is in various guitar forums where people , especially for acoustic guitar where classical technique seems to be largely ignored, players are having problems with their hands and wrists. Unfortunately, it can take years before the consequences of our choices become known. I have a nephew who did whatever they called the "head banging" thing people did to each other at rock concerts in the 80s. A year ago, he had to have surgery on a couple of vertebrae whose cause was traced directly back to that activity. Same story for ignoring hands and wrists when playing guitar, though maybe to a lesser degree.

With regard to Conti strings, he works with GHS and has sets put together with specific gauges. The gauges are (high to low): 11 - 14 - 20w - 28w - 38w - 48w. The package says "Preferred Guage Strings Manufactured by GHS Strings, Battle Creek, Michigan" on the back, and "Preferred Gauge Strings From Robert Conti" on the front. I like the strings and find they sound good and are comfortable to play. Conti says on the package "This set of custom gauged strings is the result of many years of experimentation. In addition to ease of playability, I believe they achieve an ideal tonal balance for the majority of jazz guitarists."

I am one of the fortunate people who doesn't have weird chemicals coming out of my fingers, so strings tend to last a long time for me. Some people have to change strings every week, if not more, and others maybe a few times a year. It seems to depend on the chemicals in your fingers, how frequently you play, and the environment in which you play. If you play on a cruise ship, for example, the air would be salty, so maybe strings in that environment wouldn't last as long.

Tony

[tbeltrans]

Tony,
Excellent! You've touched on a very important point here. Most of us practice while sitting and play while standing which creates a different angle on the guitar and the way the hands address the fingerboard. I discovered this years ago when my execution on the bandstand was always several notches below that of the practice room. When it finally hit me what was causing the problem, I began to use a strap to keep the guitar in the same place all the time and was able to acheive a balance between practice and performance.
Jerome

Monk:

I am glad you picked up on that. My choice of words was on purpose, and that was exactly the point!

Tony

[tbeltrans]

And now the kid in the dumb row raises his hand: "I know that the theory holds that if you wear a strap and sit, the guitar will be in the same position when you're standing, but does it actually work out this way for everyone?" It doesn't seem to for me.....

(If that makes no sense, well, it won't be the first time I've been guilty of that.)

Monk's response is spot on, and your response makes sense to me. If you don't hold your guitar high enough, then when you sit down it will rest on your legs, changing the position. Whether I stand or sit, my guitar is never resting on my legs/lap so its position remains unchanged. Also, you want it high enough so your hands come to rest naturally in their respective positions for playing so you don't have that awkwardness I was talking about earlier.

Of course, when all is said and done, we each have to find the positioning that works best for us. Clearly, monk and I have a similar approach, with similar reasons and results. We all have different hight, arm lengths, etc, so it may take some experimentation to find what is suitable for you.

Tony

[MarkRhodes]

My point was simply that an advantage of the Conti guitar is that you don't need to wrap around at the 12th fret because you can go all the way up to the 24th fret easily.

With regard to the classical manner of holding the guitar, I have always done some form of that, probably because I have always preferred to use my fingers. Most people seem to rest an acoustic guitar on the right leg when sitting down to play. that always seemed really awkward to me because the player's elbow is then sticking way up in the air. To me, that feels really uncomfortable, and I wouldn't doubt it causes its share of physical problems after a while. With electric, I see people having the guitar slung rather low. It may look "cool" in a haphazard sort of way, but the angle at which the wrists are bent looks very awkward and prone to damage. Proof of this is in various guitar forums where people , especially for acoustic guitar where classical technique seems to be largely ignored, players are having problems with their hands and wrists. Unfortunately, it can take years before the consequences of our choices become known. I have a nephew who did whatever they called the "head banging" thing people did to each other at rock concerts in the 80s. A year ago, he had to have surgery on a couple of vertebrae whose cause was traced directly back to that activity. Same story for ignoring hands and wrists when playing guitar, though maybe to a lesser degree.

With regard to Conti strings, he works with GHS and has sets put together with specific gauges. The gauges are (high to low): 11 - 14 - 20w - 28w - 38w - 48w. The package says "Preferred Guage Strings Manufactured by GHS Strings, Battle Creek, Michigan" on the back, and "Preferred Gauge Strings From Robert Conti" on the front. I like the strings and find they sound good and are comfortable to play. Conti says on the package "This set of custom gauged strings is the result of many years of experimentation. In addition to ease of playability, I believe they achieve an ideal tonal balance for the majority of jazz guitarists."

I do like that Conti's guitar allows access to the higher frets. I also like the single pickup setup. I may try a set of those strings. Next time I'm ready to change them, I'll get a set of Conti's and see what I make of them.

It's a funny thing about playing sitting down. I'm one of those guys who crosses his legs but unlike most guys, I'm long-waisted. (I'm 6 foot tall with a 31" inseam on my pants---that's how long my torso is, and how short my legs are!) So my guitar feels a little "low" when I'm sitting; however, if I use the strap to bring it up several inches, THEN my arm feels like it's at an odd angle.

I play with my fingers with the Assembly Line material, but I'm mainly a pick guy. (Conti's "Precision Technique" and "Jazz Lines" are my daily bread along with "Assembly Line," and I sometimes do the A. Line material with a pick...) I'm not sure your classical posture would work for me. But boy does it work for you!

[tbeltrans]

Peerless guitar, looks a little like the hofner very thin....I have not had a chance to try out a peerless but they seem to be really nice......I wish the body was a bit smaller...

I asked Conti's people about this and got some info about Peerless and the Conti guitar. Peerless is a high quality manufacturer (as OEM) for several major brands. However, the Conti guitar only shares two attributes of the top line Peerless guitars (other than the build quality). These are the headstock shape and the pickguard. Other than these, Conti designed everything about the Conti guitar himself, so it is different from the Peerless models that bear their own name or as made for other brands. This is a private brand - "Conti" that is sold only via his web site.

This makes sense to me because I really have not seen a guitar, especially in this price range with the attributes that the Conti guitar has, as mentioned in other posts. That is another good thing about Conti's organization, he/they will respond if we ask them anything about their products. So I hope this information helps.

This is a link to Conti's Facebook page from the 2010 NAMM show. Notice what the banner says about who Peerless builds for:


https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=3&theater



Tony

[tbeltrans]

I do like that Conti's guitar allows access to the higher frets. I also like the single pickup setup. I may try a set of those strings. Next time I'm ready to change them, I'll get a set of Conti's and see what I make of them.

It's a funny thing about playing sitting down. I'm one of those guys who crosses his legs but unlike most guys, I'm long-waisted. (I'm 6 foot tall with a 31" inseam on my pants---that's how long my torso is, and how short my legs are!) So my guitar feels a little "low" when I'm sitting; however, if I use the strap to bring it up several inches, THEN my arm feels like it's at an odd angle.

I play with my fingers with the Assembly Line material, but I'm mainly a pick guy. (Conti's "Precision Technique" and "Jazz Lines" are my daily bread along with "Assembly Line," and I sometimes do the A. Line material with a pick...) I'm not sure your classical posture would work for me. But boy does it work for you!

When I called to order my Conti guitar, I ended up talking directly to Conti. Really a nice guy! Anyway, I asked him about dual vs single pickup. He said that if I intend to just play jazz (chord melody, single lines, comping, etc.) then the single pickup is good, as it is a clean uncluttered look and less hardware on the guitar and nobody uses the bridge pickup for that because it doesn't have that warm tone. However, if I were intending to play pop music, funk, etc., then having the flexibility of tone for those styles would make having the dual pickup configuration worthwhile. I have played those styles in bands before, and could well end up doing it again, so I chose the dual pickup design and you heard how good the guitar sounds.

If I knew that I would only be playing jazz/chordmelody/not pop or rock, then I would have gone for the single pickup.

By the way, I have googled and read discussions about dual vs single pickup configurations and people's opinions about the Gibson Johnny Smith, and people reflect the same views that Conti mentioned. My Johnny Smith has two pickups and is sunburst, so I decided to go the same route with my Conti guitar. I have no regrets, and believe that either would be fine (single or dual pickup). Conti said he plays a single pickup model, and it is black.

You may have some experimentation ahead of you regarding how to hold the guitar. I have heard of other people having long torso/short legs or the other way round, so it isn't too unusual. The issue is to what degree is the length disparity. In your case, it is apparently pronounced enough to affect how you hold the guitar. Fortunately, there isn't ONE right way other than the way that works best for you.

Tony

[MarkRhodes]

Mark,
Obviously. I can only speak for myself. I started wearing my guitars mid-chest a la Roy Buchanan and Les Paul about 35 years ago. That's high enough so that it remains in place whether I stand or sit. Another benefit is that when playing seated in a big band, it's customary for soloists to stand during their solos. I don't have to worry about the guitar shifting or moving around if I'm called on. I can stand up and get right to work.
Jerome

Thanks, Jerome. I'll work on this.

[artcore]

I always sit in the living room with my back against the couch when I'm working through a tune, in a nice comfortable position and then when I sit in chair, its oh man, I have to shift around to get the fingerboard in the right place...and thats my fault, I know better.....using the strap or adopting the classical position would be the smart thing to do.....

[monk]

Soooo, you just need to take your couch to the gig.

[artcore]

I mostly gig right at home.....these days....

[MarkRhodes]

As far as I am concerned, I think that sitting at home and playing chord melody is one of the most relaxing and engaging things I can do for myself. If opportunities did not come up to play in a band, I would still be perfectly happy.

Tony, I'm glad to hear you say that. I want to become a really good guitar player and to me the advantage of that is being able to play well, for myself alone or for others. It's like cooking----not everyone who can cook wants to run a restaurant!

As a kid, I wrote songs and that remains more important to me. Though since I've gotten into jazz, and especially The Great American Songbook, I realize I'm not that good and that I (often, not always) get more out of playing a great tune well than one I wrote myself. (There's an undeniable kick to having a song of your own you think is cool, but my own tunes aren't jazz, though some have a bit of that influence.)

[artcore]

Its a hobby for me and very glad I found cord melody..I am retired so I can fool around as much as I want with it...I don't use the amp much, but lately I'm plugging in and making some recordings...It really points out the weakness in the arrangements.
Also the positives...

[tbeltrans]

Tony, I'm glad to hear you say that. I want to become a really good guitar player and to me the advantage of that is being able to play well, for myself alone or for others. It's like cooking----not everyone who can cook wants to run a restaurant!

As a kid, I wrote songs and that remains more important to me. Though since I've gotten into jazz, and especially The Great American Songbook, I realize I'm not that good and that I (often, not always) get more out of playing a great tune well than one I wrote myself. (There's an undeniable kick to having a song of your own you think is cool, but my own tunes aren't jazz, though some have a bit of that influence.)

I have not tried writing my own songs, so I don't have that experience to comment on. I think thequality of the standards is quite high. At that time, there were skilled song writers, really those who wrote lyrics and those who put them to music, and there were the performers whose skill making the tune come alive for the audience. It was collaberative,with each person involved being a master of his or her knowledge domain. When The Beatles came along (after their first few albums), they began writing their own material, as did other rock groups of the time, and that became the norm. It didn't seem to matter if the songs were particularly good or not, though The Beatles had absorbed a rather wide variety of music, including the standards and used all those influences in their music.

To me, a good test of a well written tune is if the melody and harmony are strong enough to stand on their own in a variety of settings. There was a jazz 2 CD set called "A Bite of the Apple" of Beatles tunes that worked really well. I have heard one CD of an attempt to cover some Stones tunes as jazz pieces that, in my opinion, falls flat. I have heard some classical guitar renditions of some Hendrix tunes and though they have a few short moments, overall they really don't work well. Edgar Cruz captures rock tunes as solo classical guitar pieces. I have some of thse CDs. It sounds to me as if he has to work really hard to get it all in. I doubt that they would hold up at all if he weren't skilled enough to capture much of what the band is doing.

The standards hold up well because they have a strong melody line and you can do a lot with the harmony. Not everything written during that time withstood the test of time, but there is a large body of it that did, and still does.

There is so much music coming at us from so many directions today, that it would be really easy to not hear really good music being made that would hold up. We have too much of a good thing, and I really don't know what is being produced that might work in a setting such as solo chord melody.

As for song writing, I am surprised in hindsight how many good tunes there were from the 70s. I don't know what the ratio was from the 30s, 40s, and early 50s between all that was produced and what withstood the test of time, so I don't know if the 70s appraoched that at all, but there is quite a bit from the 70s that could be set in a chord melody arrangement. I don't know about music from the 80s and beyond except maybe a few tunes.

I don't really consider myself "jazz" necessarily either. My inspiration comes not from sax players, as many jazz guitarist seem to want to emulate, nor from jazz guitarists, but instead from certain cocktail style piano players. They take harmonic freedom, but stick to the melody. That is what I aspire to as is presented in The Formula. Conti provides a way to achieve that, but it still takes a lot of time on the istrument, which he makes quite clear. So I am somewhere along the way, but far from any destination.

Tony

[tbeltrans]

Its a hobby for me and very glad I found cord melody..I am retired so I can fool around as much as I want with it...I don't use the amp much, but lately I'm plugging in and making some recordings...It really points out the weakness in the arrangements.
Also the positives...

I want to be retired and have the retirement savings in line, but I still have to wait until I qualify for Medicare. If there is an alternative, I would love to know about it. My plan for retirement is to get back to cocktail style piano via the Sudnow method in parallel with the guitar and The Formula. The Formula applies equally to the piano, so these paths really go together. I also have a large lever harp that I want to learn to play.

To me, music is one of the best things I can think of doing in retirement. It only needs to cost what you are willing to put into it, yet regardless of how little money you choose to spend on it, the rewards are tremendous. That is one of the things about retirement that I don't hear a lot about - what do you intend to do? I don't need to travel, been there, done that too much already. I just want to be at home playing music and maybe teaching in some community program and/or playing in a small group.

Music is a great hobby. You can do it until the end of your life, unlike so many other pursuits such as ballroom dancing, travel, etc.

Tony