Why do they continue to build non-ergonomic nylon string guitars?

**wordsmith** · 01-22-2009, 12:20 AM

......just the way things go sometimes, I suppose. We are only human. I posted after reading 'I like Baudelaire'. I was just attempting a bit of light relief to see where it might go, and those three words in that context didn't seem particularly constructive.
Anyway, I have apologised. As I recall, I've never found a friend without first fighting somehow with him or her. I think most friendships start on altercation.
It's then you know who you're dealing with, perhaps.

**wordsmith** · 01-22-2009, 12:34 AM

...aha!
Just realised something,,,my "real money and foil tops" line was not aimed at anyone, though I now see how it may be construed as such.
Far from it. I am 52 and from the north of England, and I can remember real money (before our decimalisaton) and the foil tops. We used to get free milk at school!
It was my way of pointing out that I am old enough to remember a different time, when good manners were paramount. No offense intended. Was not aimed at anyone at all.
We have here in microcosm (is that right?) a situation which typifies why the world seems to be in a bit of a mess.....misunderstanding on both sides.
So if we can patch it up (could be a song there?) we can demonstrate hope for the world!
Please accept my virtual handshake.

Paul.

**Goofsus4** · 01-22-2009, 01:11 PM

Originally Posted by wordsmith

Hello, Sailor!
Do I detect a smattering of sarcasm here?
I think I do.
Never nice...sarcasm.
Whatever happened to reasoned debate....cor...I remember when we had real money, and foil tops on milk bottles.

Naw. These guys don't do that. When I first joined this forum I made the same mistake. You are probably used to forums where every comment is sarcastic and everyone is trying to set you up for a flame. You get a chip on your shoulder and you are always reading insults into everyone's comments. But I quickly realized that people generally mean what they say and say what they mean here and aren't trying to provoke each other with sarcasm.

I also play the bulk of my jazz on a classical. I just like the tone you can get without having to fiddle with knobs and technical stuff. Solo fingerstyle and chord melody is easier and better sounding to my ears on a classical as well. But when I want to go fast and really blow, I bust out the electric.

**Herby** · 01-22-2009, 01:31 PM

I'm with Goofus. I love playing jazz on the nylon. I've said before that arguably the sound that a lot of jazzers are trying to get is the sound that the nylon makes naturally. I plug'er in, adjust to the room accordingly, and go... ok with maybe just a little bit of reverb.

**fep** · 01-22-2009, 01:33 PM

Yep, Sailor isn't being sarcastic, I'll vouch for that. Lots of folks play jazz on a classical guitar.

Classical guitars don't feel awkward to me at all... and I've got small hands. You just have to have your thumb placed like a classical guitar teacher would show you, around the middle of the bottom of the neck. It's probably just a matter of what you're use too. I've always had classical and electric guitars, and have always used classical hand positions... I was orginally taught that way.

I love jazz on a classical, just love the tone of a classical guitar. Here's a real nice chord melody done by Earl Klugh:

**wordsmith** · 01-22-2009, 08:22 PM

Thanks for the posts, guys. Goofsus4 got it right on the button in post 28 here!
When I did post 21, I thought I might be out on a limb somehow...you know, folks thinking..'what's with this guy'....and when I read Sailor's reply I thought.....'these guys don't like classical much, do they?'

How wrong I was. But it has been worth the pain to find out just how open-minded members of this forum are, and I am especially pleased to have found out that Sailor plays it all on classical. I am no virtuoso, but I borrowed a classical for two years back in '83-'85, and it became a great friend. Even used it as a pillow in a Paris metro station...they allowed people to sleep in the stations back then, but you were locked in until they opened up in the morning and let you out. So you took your chances with the company there. Met some great people, as it happened!

I will take Sailor's advice....check a member's posts before reacting to a comment, if you're feeling a bit wound up about it !!!!

Peace and love to you all!

PS...I wrote a quick summary of Segovia's basic right-hand exercises, as I remember them, in chit chat, the maestro speaks, post 7. Seem to remember he once said there were many exercises, but that these would achieve as much if not more than any others.

**hubert54** · 01-31-2009, 05:33 PM

no opinion why anyone argues about playing "jazz" on a classical guitar,
it's a guitar isn't it?
perhaps you play jazz on a pot or spoon
or a saxophone or piano or organ or might be - bassoon
but please tell me, when you "hear" jazz or something else

don't mind
Hubert

**m78w** · 01-31-2009, 05:40 PM

I've recently started reworking my classical chops, and have been playing all my jazz on a nylon cutaway, I love it! For me there's something about fingers on a nylon string that is so organic, it just feels right.

MW

**hubert54** · 01-31-2009, 05:53 PM

matt,
I agree, but your
lessons seem a bit boring to me
never mind
from two string to four
what do you think about Freddie Green?

**hubert54** · 01-31-2009, 06:02 PM

I'm "working" around my fretboard with walking bass and all kind of
altered "jazz-akkords" nevertheless I feel helpless
the guitar doesn't answer, or my ears don't
but I keep on trying

**m78w** · 01-31-2009, 06:03 PM

Freddie Green's cool and his playing has definitely shaped the way guitarists play jazz.

What do you find boring about the lessons? I'm always looking for feedback and ways to improve my writing/teaching.

MW

**hubert54** · 01-31-2009, 06:20 PM

hm
I think you master your guitar perfectly
but only a bit of yours arrive
that's not your fault
I'm austrian
don't worry
but
and that is the real command
your notes seem - theoretical
I know the fretboard
but what is "Jazz"??

**hubert54** · 01-31-2009, 06:33 PM

I will never understand what "Jazz" might be
I think of Leadbelly or John Lee Hooker
what did they do?
express something?
now, what about "jazz"?
and why "music" overall?

never mind
it's only a tyrolean bored guy

**pierre richard** · 01-31-2009, 10:05 PM

i've got small hands too ut it never stopped me from playing the instrument I love..

I play classical pieces and etudes for reading and technical advancement..

I play Charlie Byrd style jazz on it too because jazz is my favorite genre...

Mostly Ibanez 2355 (es175)...a 1977 model in the styles of wes,herb,joe,tal,howard,johnny and my own style which takes years...I'm on my 51st year of playing,,,

time on the instrument....pierre

**wordsmith** · 01-31-2009, 10:09 PM

...and thanks for the emails you sent me. You have a rather unique way of communicating. I was a little confused about 'two string to four'. Could you enlighten me here as to what you meant?
Take care!

**Sailor** · 01-31-2009, 10:55 PM

HMMMMMMMMMM... Did I write this?????

I've recently started reworking my classical chops, and have been playing all my jazz on a nylon cutaway, I love it! For me there's something about fingers on a nylon string that is so organic, it just feels right.

Sailor

**Sailor** · 01-31-2009, 10:56 PM

Wait a minute... next thing you know I'LL be playing a Tele !

Sailor

**m78w** · 01-31-2009, 11:05 PM

Ha! Well I started as a classical player and after 12 years in college studying jazz I'm getting back to my roots. The funny thing is since I've been focusing on classical my jazz chops and improvs have been way better!

MW

**Sailor** · 01-31-2009, 11:25 PM

Matt - What do you play when you're getting back into classical.?? I still try to maintain a small repertoire of Carcassi, Sor, Ponce, Bach, Visee, Giuliani. I was never great, changed to music ed from performance, but I can still play classical pretty well for a lazy guy. Thing is I've actually learned MORE about music from this past year of jazz !! Despite your boring lessons...........

Sailor

**m78w** · 01-31-2009, 11:28 PM

I'm working about an hour a day on technique (scales/giuliani etc), then I'm working on these 6 pieces:

Fantasia by Byrd
Cello Suite Prelude by Bach
Romance by Paganini
Alegretto by Coste
Etude 8 by Villa Lobos
Prelude 1 by Villa Lobos

And I'll have to start spicing my lessons up more for ya!

MW

**Sailor** · 01-31-2009, 11:32 PM

That's a pretty aggressive schedule ! I don't know how you find the time! I just play repertoire pieces for about half an hour and then practice ii-V-I's, chords, rhythms, scales for about a half hour. Bad carpal tunnel...no more.

PLEASE don't spice your lessons up; dumb them down!!

Thanks Sailor

**m78w** · 01-31-2009, 11:37 PM

Ha! I'll keep them at a reasonable pace don't worry.

Right now I'm practicing about 4 hours a day, which is all my hands can handle on the classical. After that they feel like they're going to fall off! And I have really low bridges so my strings aren't even that high off the board.

MW

**Sailor** · 01-31-2009, 11:42 PM

Four hours a day ! You teach, spend time on the forum, write articles, do interviews, eat, shower, perform, have a relationship,.... no sleep?? I don't even have a job and I don't have four hours!!

Sailor

**m78w** · 01-31-2009, 11:48 PM

I stopped sleeping decades ago.....

I do all my practicing first thing in the morning, so usually from 8-noon. That way I have the rest of the day to do what I want or need to do.

MW

**JohnW400** · 02-01-2009, 12:58 AM

Lucky you Matt! haha. Although I shoudn't complain. Tomorrow is Sunday and my regimine will be just tunes, no excercises. 12-3 classical, 3-6 jazz , then take my very patient wife out to eat at whatever restaurant she likes.

I've been working on classical tunes and buidling a repetoire. I wrote out some Chopin, the famous prelude in E minor and arrainged it for guitar. also I'm working on some Villa Lobos (Prelude1 is nice, I'm still smoothing out the B section. Prelude 3 is cool too but the stretches are tricky.) and some Lauro. (whch kicks my butt!) Of course Bach and Sor. My favorite classial piece is Pavane for a Dead Princess. Beautiful piece, poor song title.

For a married guy I'm pretty fortunate that I get in 2 hours a day and 6 on Sunday. That doesen't include time spent on writing out CM's for this site.