The Nearness of You - Jeff Arnold Jazz Ballads - Tune #4

**Mick-7** · 07-30-2024, 10:02 PM

Originally Posted by starjasmine

The sampling rate has nothing to do with the hiss on your recordings. You're just not setting the input level correctly. You need to raise the signal as far above the noise floor as you can go without overdriving the preamp. According to step 3 on page 10 of the manual, make sure your input meter gets as close to 0dB as possible without going over. Digital devices can be very unforgiving about overdriving the preamp; the signal will crackle in a most unflattering way on the peaks. OTOH, said digital units will gladly record all the background noise you present, in its full glory, if the input signal is too low.

I looked at the specs on this unit and it is capable of taking a line-level signal or a mic-level signal, which means that you should be able to take a line out from your amp and plug that into the MRS4 or record the guitar plugged directly into the MRS4. In some cases, plugging the guitar straight in might cause an impedance mismatch, but the specs on this unit indicate that it should generally handle most guitar pickups without trouble.

i.e. if your signal is buried in noise, you've got to present a louder signal, but not so loud as to overdrive the preamp. This is a matter of feeding a strong signal from your amp's line out, or making sure that your guitar volume is all the way up if you are plugging the guitar straight into the MRS4. That solved, adjust the input level control (step 3 as noted above) until you get plenty of movement on the meter when you play, but don't get distortion (which will be an ugly digital crackle, not a sweet Marshall-like overdrive).

Do NOT plug a speaker output into the input on the MRS4 (or most any other preamp). You'll fry it in milliseconds.

HTH

SJ

I am using a line out from my amp into the Zoom unit. The manual mentions that one could plug the guitar into an effects device and plug that into the Zoom but I'm not sure what sort of device they mean, and at any rate I don't have one. For reference, I have attached the Unit's manual (it's under 1 mb in size).

The unit has a "High IQ Gain" setting, Section 4-2 in the manual: "Adjusting volume/pan/EQ" This is the adjustment I had overlooked.

Thanks again.

**starjasmine** · 07-31-2024, 01:49 AM

Originally Posted by Mick-7

I am using a line out from my amp into the Zoom unit. The manual mentions that one could plug the guitar into an effects device and plug that into the Zoom but I'm not sure what sort of device they mean, and at any rate I don't have one.

For all intents and purposes, the line out from your amp is the exact same signal level that an fx device's line out would produce.

I found a forum post somewhere that said this amp might need to be quite loud to produce a usable signal from the preamp output tho. Unfortunately, I can't find that post now.

However, this forum has a good discussion of this amp. In particular, post #3 mentions that in addition to the preamp out, this amp has a direct out with its own level control. You can use that to set the level of the output signal from the amp to the MRS4 independently of the loudness of the speaker output. THAT is what you should be using to record the amp's output, if indeed this is the same amp as yours.

Post #2 in the above forum indicates that the rec out is a simple 1/4" jack, but the manual for this amp shows the rec out as XLR. If you need to wire up an XLR to 1/4" cable (or buy an adapter like this one) it would be well worth it to have that independent control of the line level from your amp to the recorder.

Originally Posted by Mick-7

The unit has a "High IQ Gain" setting, Section 4-2 in the manual: "Adjusting volume/pan/EQ"

That looks pretty useful - you can set the shelf frequency as well as the amount of gain or boost. Setting this carefully might allow you to remove high-frequency hiss without sapping your guitar tone. But it won't fix a too-low input signal.

Parting shot: I just listened to your box recording and just off the top it sounds like your input level is not super low, but you are still playing at a really low volume so the guitar sound is kinda buried in the normal hiss that a lot of SS amps produce. What happens if you really crank the amp (or at least bring it from bedroom level to restaurant-gig level, perhaps putting it in a closet if you have to, just for this experiment)? Will the guitar signal jump up way higher than the background noise, allowing you to dial back the input gain at the MRS4? (Credit where credit is due: this is what Bobby Timmons suggested in #54.)

HTH

SJ

**Mick-7** · 07-31-2024, 11:53 AM

Lots to consider, thanks to all of you for your suggestions, and I apologize for steering this thread into a conversation about my recording challenges. Hopefully others got some value from the discussion.

Originally Posted by starjasmine

However, this forum has a good discussion of this amp. In particular, post #3 mentions that in addition to the preamp out, this amp has a direct out with its own level control. You can use that to set the level of the output signal from the amp to the MRS4 independently of the loudness of the speaker output. THAT is what you should be using to record the amp's output, if indeed this is the same amp as yours.

Post #2 in the above forum indicates that the rec out is a simple 1/4" jack, but the manual for this amp shows the rec out as XLR. If you need to wire up an XLR to 1/4" cable (or buy an adapter like this one) it would be well worth it to have that independent control of the line level from your amp to the recorder.

That looks pretty useful - you can set the shelf frequency as well as the amount of gain or boost. Setting this carefully might allow you to remove high-frequency hiss without sapping your guitar tone. But it won't fix a too-low input signal.

Interesting! Now where did I put the amp manual..... in addition to the input channels (A & B) the amp has two output plugs:
(1) headphones and (2) foot switch. I have the foot pedal for it but have never used it.

**starjasmine** · 07-31-2024, 02:18 PM

There's a link to the manual in my previous post.

Also, since you are processing the audio file to make it into .wav, you could just use Audacity to remove the noise. For something like this hiss, it would work really well. And it's free.

If you have a way to get audio into your PC (either an analog audio in or an external audio interface), Audacity would allow you to ditch the MRS4 and record directly into the PC.

Getting ahold of any headphone (even just borrowing one for 5 mins) would allow you to listen for hiss in the headphone out. That would give you a really good idea of whether this is just the normal operation of the amp or something you need to adjust with the recording setup. For starters, just plug the headphones into the headphone out of the amp and listen for the amount of background hiss without playing anything. That will give you an idea of the base noise level of this amp. (No amp is dead silent. Tube amps hum and ss amps hiss. Though aging components and antiquated designs can cause more of either than a new, perfectly functioning version would produce.)

It could be that your recording setup is just capturing the normal background noise that the amp produces. Like I said before, something unnoticeable at a gig might be really noticeable when mic'ed an inch away from the speaker.

**Mick-7** · 07-31-2024, 03:16 PM

Thank you for the manual, I think I had an abbreviated version of it. And I've never even used the inputs and outputs on the back of the amp, there are a few more of them, with level settings! What's more, I can just unplug the internal speakers to have headphone output only!

I've had the amp sitting unused in a back room for a long time and just took it out recently.

**Mick-7** · 08-09-2024, 07:37 PM

Don't know when Liarspoker will return to this group, got the impression it could be a while, and it's already been a month since we started on this tune so....

I'm looking at Arnold's arrangement of Stella by Starlight, I've been playing the tune recently anyway. If anyone wants to join me, that would be stellar.

**alpop** · 08-09-2024, 08:53 PM

Originally Posted by Mick-7

Don't know when Liarspoker will return to this group, got the impression it could be a while, and it's already been a month since we started on this tune so....

I'm looking at Arnold's arrangement of Stella by Starlight, I've been playing the tune recently anyway. If anyone wants to join me, that would be stellar.

Sure, no harm in choosing Stella as the next tune. I think everyone who's going to play/submit this one has done so already.

I'll join in and start working on it tomorrow.

**Mick-7** · 08-11-2024, 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by alpop

Sure, no harm in choosing Stella as the next tune. I think everyone who's going to play/submit this one has done so already.

I'll join in and start working on it tomorrow.

First impression: I wouldn't play this song in the key that Arnold chose (Bb Major) because the melody will drop down to the G string (e.g., Bb on 3rd fret) and your only option will to play 3 note chord voicings on the bottom strings. I'll have to see what key sets better on the guitar, maybe just C major, a whole tone up.

**lawson-stone** · 08-11-2024, 04:07 PM

Originally Posted by Mick-7

First impression: I wouldn't play this song in the key that Arnold chose (Bb Major) because the melody will drop down to the G string (e.g., Bb on 3rd fret) and your only option will to play 3 note chord voicings on the bottom strings. I'll have to see what key sets better on the guitar, maybe just C major, a whole tone up.

I think Jimmy Raney recorded it in G major... or was that Doug?

**alpop** · 08-11-2024, 05:01 PM

Originally Posted by Mick-7

First impression: I wouldn't play this song in the key that Arnold chose (Bb Major) because the melody will drop down to the G string (e.g., Bb on 3rd fret) and your only option will to play 3 note chord voicings on the bottom strings. I'll have to see what key sets better on the guitar, maybe just C major, a whole tone up.

I'll be learning the arrangement in the book as I'm deriving benefits from the process.

I'm still playing the other tunes we have learned and those are slowly evolving as ideas come to me.

Lots of fun.