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It's preying on my mind why you would prefer to disregard my advice about how to eliminate the hiss. :P
Originally Posted by Mick-7
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07-29-2024 12:29 PM
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I thought I'd reduced it a lot on this take? Originally Posted by Bobby Timmons
Turns out, it's much more complicated that I thought, and I have yet to figure out what the primary cause of the background noise is. The Zoom recorder settings, which amp channel I use (1 or 2), and the various amp settings, could all be contributing factors.
On my Yamaha amp I have: Master Volume, Gain, Mid Boost, Level, Q, Frequency, Presence, and Reverb, plus the usual Treble, Middle, and Bass - so much to investigate. If you have any ideas on how to handle these settings, I'd love to hear them.
I actually bought a small used Fender amp from Guitar Center that I intended to use for recording but, Murphy's Law, the Earphones/Pre-amp out function on it is not working.
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I think the noise is being caused by the input level on your zoom interface device being too high. From the few interfaces I've used, anything above 40% on the input level isn't really viable because it starts introducing noise. That's ok because going direct is a sinch. Simply turn up the amp really loud and that won't introduce noise from the amp. Then set the input level on the interface moderately low at like 1/4 or 1/3 of the way up. When I record direct on my digital piano, I literally turn it all the way up and set the input level on my interface about 1/3 of the way up and the levels in the daw almost peak. Then I fine tune the level in the daw to be peaking.
It's possible noise could come from the guitar or amp, but I don't think that's the case. You could always eliminate those variables by seeing how loud you can turn them up playing live while still being quiet. Then those conditions should still be the same once you plug into your interface.
It's also possible the zoom device just sucks and introduces hiss regardless of what you do. But I would assume it should be able to function satisfactorily with proper adjustment. If it were the case that it just records with hiss regardless then you'd need to ditch the pos.
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o.k., thank you, you've given me some good leads. Originally Posted by Bobby Timmons
"Simply turn up the amp really loud and that won't introduce noise from the amp."
Can't do that with this amp: Yamaha G-100 III 212, the speakers do not cut out when the preamp out is used - only bad feature of it.
Then again, I could turn it way up and turn the guitar volume knob down low?
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Hmm, sounds like a raw deal. Why record direct if you can't be direct? All I can offer is find out how to disable the speakers. Or start micing the speaker and isolate the amp.
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I'm sure there's a solution, maybe even a simple one, like turning down the Zoom recording level as you suggested, just a matter of pinpointing it, thanks. Originally Posted by Bobby Timmons
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You're welcome.
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I just realized that I could record with the old Fender KXR60 keyboard amp I have sitting in my back room, it sucks as a guitar amp but may be good for recording.
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That's good. Are you going to use a quiet line out on it?
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I suppose so, I have never recorded with it, we shall see.... Originally Posted by Bobby Timmons
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I'm really enjoying listening to all your takes on it. Here is my attempt at it. This study group is great because it's forcing me to practice these tunes with more discipline. So thanks, guys!
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Sounds good! Thanks for joining in. Originally Posted by Chris_S
I agree that this study group is great. Having to "show your work" is helpful to me towards making progress on my performance skills. (focus, time, feel, handling nerves, etc.)
Personally I've always been a guy in a band and never had to present my playing in a solo setting. (Being a band guy has a different skill set.)
I think that these arrangements are just the right level to be fairly easy to learn and short enough to memorize and get a sense of accomplishment from doing so.
Some folks may feel that they are lacking in color, but they wouldn't be as accessible if there was a lot of complex harmony. It would take too long to decipher complex pieces and it would get discouraging. Anyway, the simplest music can be beautiful if performed with good tuning, timing, and feeling.
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What's next on our playlist? And should we fine Liarspoker for being AWOL on this thread?
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Some amps (SS without an output transformer) will self-destruct without a speaker output load Originally Posted by Bobby Timmons
Old school: put it in the closet, maybe even with a pillow in front of the speaker. And maybe mic the back of the cabinet instead of the front. Originally Posted by Bobby Timmons
If the sound of the amp in a closet is too muffled, get thee a headphone monitor....
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I have a Zoom box and it has built-in amp models, so I use the Zoom as a USB interface to record tracks in Garage Band. I plug the guitar straight into the recorder, use the Fender Clean (I think that's the name) model, and listen to output in a pair of headphones. Originally Posted by Mick-7
You could probably also just record straight to the Zoom recorder instead of using it as an interface to the computer.
Another variation would be to use the amp (instead of headphones) to monitor output from the zoom. Might give you the best of both worlds.
Either way, you don't need an amp to record on this device. Unless you just like playing through the amp, which I understand... but it is possible that the hiss is just the natural output of this amp. What you don't hear at room/gig level can be incredibly noticeable to a mic that is right next to the amp.
There is some kind of automatic gain control setting on the Zoom that you'll have to hunt around the menus to find and disable ... it tends to basically run the gain too high for mic'ing instruments and reacts too slowly when thigns get loud, with the result that trying to record a guitar amp with this setting enabled introduces a lot of distortion. Not good distortion, mind you.
Speaking of good distortion, isn't that Yamaha amp the same one that Robben Ford used in the Yellowjackets days, pre-Dumble? I thought it sounded pretty good. I saw him play live with that amp right around the time that the first Yellowjackets disc (the only one with Robben on it) came out. Great show, great amp!
SJ
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I have an old Zoom MRS-4 (4 track) recorder that records onto a media card, which is inserted into a smart card reader that I plug into my pc, and then I use an app to convert the Zoom audio file to a .wav file. So the Zoom unit needs to record from an amp or microphone (or MIDI device, etc.) I can listen to the Zoom recordings with headphones before I convert them (but I need a new headphone set).
This model has no built in effects, however, now that you mention it, I really should study the manual, it has a button for EQ settings that I've ignored, might be the easy fix I've overlooked. Originally Posted by starjasmine
I think so, there's a thread about the amp here in the forum, it was state of the art when it came out. Originally Posted by starjasmine
Thanks for the advice, but like I said, this Zoom recorder is rather archaic. But as my father used to say, "when all else fails, read the instructions."
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That Zoom recorder should be more than capable of a hiss-free recording. Can you try to mic your voice and listen through headphones, making adjustments until it sounds clear? If you can do that, then I would mic the amp for your guitar recordings. Originally Posted by Mick-7
I have an old Zoom MRS-4 (4 track) recorder that records onto a media card, which is inserted into a smart card reader that I plug into my pc, and then I use an app to convert the Zoom audio file to a .wav file. So the Zoom unit needs to record from an amp or microphone (or MIDI device, etc.) I can listen to the Zoom recordings with headphones before I convert them (but I need a new headphone set).
This model has no built in effects, however, now that you mention it, I really should study the manual, it has a button for EQ settings that I've ignored, might be the easy fix I've overlooked.
I think so, there's a thread about the amp here in the forum, it was state of the art when it came out.
Thanks for the advice, but like I said, this Zoom recorder is rather archaic. But as my father used to say, "when all else fails, read the instructions."
Edit: I see that the unit has no XLR inputs for a typical mic cable. If you don't have an adapter to plug in your mic directly, maybe as others suggested try plugging your guitar in directly. It might sound sterile and quiet, but you should be able to get a clean signal. You could then use software to add some color to your sound.
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That's another thing I need to buy: a good microphone (along with the headphones). Originally Posted by PjzzaPie
I can plug a mic directly into the Zoom unit. I'm plugging the Zoom unit into the amp because I have no mic now and because microphoning the amp will be more complicated. Thanks
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Quoting myself, always fun (if it wasn't a dumb comment). But I'm serious about the playlist, do you folks have a preference re: what song we should cover next? Originally Posted by Mick-7
What's next on our playlist? And should we fine Liarspoker for being AWOL on this thread?
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I'm content to wait for Liarspoker to get back, as it is his series of threads. Originally Posted by Mick-7
No rush on my part as I can keep playing, refining and developing the 4 tunes we have covered so far.
Not to mention a million other things to practice in the meantime.
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According to the specs in the manual for the device the A/D and D/A converters of the unit are 20 bits @ 32 kHz. CD quality is 16 bits @ 44.1 kHz for the final product. I'd forget about the unit, sell it to a LoFi vintage freak and get a new one. Originally Posted by Mick-7
I have an old Zoom MRS-4 (4 track) recorder that records onto a media card, which is inserted into a smart card reader that I plug into my pc, and then I use an app to convert the Zoom audio file to a .wav file. So the Zoom unit needs to record from an amp or microphone (or MIDI device, etc.) I can listen to the Zoom recordings with headphones before I convert them (but I need a new headphone set).
This model has no built in effects, however, now that you mention it, I really should study the manual, it has a button for EQ settings that I've ignored, might be the easy fix I've overlooked.
I think so, there's a thread about the amp here in the forum, it was state of the art when it came out.
Thanks for the advice, but like I said, this Zoom recorder is rather archaic. But as my father used to say, "when all else fails, read the instructions."
There are really affordable portable recorders with decent built-in mics by Zoom and other companies that can function as USB audio interfaces as well and are able to record with 24 bits @ 96 kHz.
EDIT: E.g. this one H4essential |Buy Now | ZOOM
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Well, as a committed cheapskate, I'm not willing to ditch this unit yet. Originally Posted by Bop Head
Below are all it's specs. I said it had no built in effects, as I said, I should have read the manual! And it looks like Starjasmine could be right about the gain EQ setting being on!
Recorder
Physical tracks: 4
Virtual takes: 32 (8 V-takes per track)
Maximum number of simultaneous recording tracks: 2
Maximum number of simultaneous playback tracks: 4
Recording media: SmartMedia card 16 – 128 MB (3.3V)
Recording grade: 32 kHz (HiFi) / 16 kHz (Long)
Maximum recording time (converted to single monaural track):
16 MB = 8 min. or more (HiFi), 16 min. or more (Long)
32 MB = 16 min. or more (HiFi), 33 min. or more (Long)
64 MB = 33 min. or more (HiFi), 67 min. or more (Long)
128 MB = 67 min. or more (HiFi), 135 min. or more (Long)
Marker function: 50 points (per song)
Locate function: min/sec/ms or measure/beat
Track editing functions: Copy & paste, erase, exchange
Punch-in/out function: Manual/auto
Other functions: Bounce, A-B repeat
Mixer
Faders: 45 mm x 5 (Track 1 – 4, Master)
Level meter indicator bars: 8 (Input 1/2, Track 1 – 4, Master L/R)
Track parameters: Equalizer, Effect Send, Pan (Stereo operation: balance)
Equalizer:
High (f:500 – 8000 Hz, Gain: ±12 dB)
Low (f:63 – 2000 Hz, Gain: ±12 dB)
Stereo Link: Tracks 1 + 2 or 3 + 4, selectable
Effects
Mixdown effect: Power, Boost, Vocal
Send/return effect: Hall, Room, Doubling, Delay, Chorus
Insert effect: Compressor, Limiter, Cabinet Simulator, Mic Pre)
Tuner function:
Chromatic auto tuner
Metronome
Tempo: 40.0 – 250.0
Time signature: 0/4-8/4
Precount: Off, 2 – 8
Maximum number of songs: 15
A/D converter: 20-bit, 64x oversampling
D/A converter: 20-bit, 8x oversampling
Sampling frequency: 32 kHz
Display:
MRS-4 original LCD (with backlight)
Inputs: 2 standard mono phone jacks
Input level: -50 to +4 dBm, continuously variable
Input impedance: 1 to 500 kilohms, continuously variable
AUX input (L/MONO, R):
2 standard mono phone jacks
Input impedance 10 kilohms (mono), 20 kilohms (stereo)
Outputs
Master out: RCA type phono jacks (L/R)
Rated output level: -10 dBm (into load impedance 10 kilohms or higher)
Output impedance: 1 kilohm max.
Headphone output: standard stereo phone jack, 50 mW (into 32 ohms load)
MIDI OUT
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Sorry, but 32 kHz sampling rate is really laughable today. No wonder you get noise. Originally Posted by Mick-7
If you are a cheapskate get something used, but get something better than you have or I cannot take you serious anymore in anything regarding sound.
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The sampling rate has nothing to do with the hiss on your recordings. You're just not setting the input level correctly. You need to raise the signal as far above the noise floor as you can go without overdriving the preamp. According to step 3 on page 10 of the manual, make sure your input meter gets as close to 0dB as possible without going over. Digital devices can be very unforgiving about overdriving the preamp; the signal will crackle in a most unflattering way on the peaks. OTOH, said digital units will gladly record all the background noise you present, in its full glory, if the input signal is too low.
I looked at the specs on this unit and it is capable of taking a line-level signal or a mic-level signal, which means that you should be able to take a line out from your amp and plug that into the MRS4 or record the guitar plugged directly into the MRS4. In some cases, plugging the guitar straight in might cause an impedance mismatch, but the specs on this unit indicate that it should generally handle most guitar pickups without trouble.
i.e. if your signal is buried in noise, you've got to present a louder signal, but not so loud as to overdrive the preamp. This is a matter of feeding a strong signal from your amp's line out, or making sure that your guitar volume is all the way up if you are plugging the guitar straight into the MRS4. That solved, adjust the input level control (step 3 as noted above) until you get plenty of movement on the meter when you play, but don't get distortion (which will be an ugly digital crackle, not a sweet Marshall-like overdrive).
Do NOT plug a speaker output into the input on the MRS4 (or most any other preamp). You'll fry it in milliseconds.
HTH
SJLast edited by starjasmine; 07-30-2024 at 07:07 PM.
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That won't matter if your input signal is too low. You'll just be using the EQ section to amplify the input noise even more. Originally Posted by Mick-7
The setting I was referring to is automatic gain control on the Zoom H4-n. NA to this device.
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