When Sunny Gets Blue - Jazz Ballads by Jeff Arnold - Tune #3

[Liarspoker]

I'll have to follow Lawson's lead this week and pass on this tune as I have a few solo gigs this weekend and next weekend also and really need to practise the repertoire.

I'll send a pic if I can. On a nice day it's very scenic if I'm playing outside.

[alpop]

Here's my shot at a "verbatim" performance. Not exact, but pretty close.

As I have practiced this I've come up with some ideas for variations etc. If there is time, I'll post another version before we move on to the next tune.

[lawson-stone]

Here's my shot at a "verbatim" performance. Not exact, but pretty close.

As I have practiced this I've come up with some ideas for variations etc. If there is time, I'll post another version before we move on to the next tune.

That was really nice. I might need to go ahead and try this tune. You really showed what a nice arrangement it is.

[lawson-stone]

Totally understand Lawson. It's all good to know what you want and to just move on when something doesn't really engage you. For me this version by Mel Torme allows me to hear the melody perfectly and his piano playing is quite nice. Got me interested in the tune.

Wow I gotta say that's a splendid performance of the song. I am feeling tempted now to give it a shot.
And really... just a very average looking guy in a regular suit sitting at the piano and singing the hell out of a song.... what a novel idea!

[alpop]

That was really nice. I might need to go ahead and try this tune. You really showed what a nice arrangement it is.

Thanks, I've gotten some useful devices from learning each of the 3 arrangements.

Regarding the tune itself, I have a good friend who would say: "This song makes it's own gravy."

[gtrplrfla]

Yes! The sound is vanilla and the fingering is awkward. Mostly because I rarely use that grip. After playing it a few times, it was pretty easy, but... it still sounds plain to my ear. I did my own arrangement of this tune a couple years back and substituted G-11 there, fingered as 3x331x. To add a little movement and harmonic interest, you can follow that with Gb7#11 fingered as 2x231x.

Another nice alternative in bar 1 is subbing A-7 for C7: 5x55xx. Following that with Ab7 as 4x45xx flows nicely.

Vanilla, Yes ! I prefer C7flat 5 (When) Gmin 9 (Sunny) Gminor 11 (Gets) C7flat 5 (Blue)

[Mick-7]

Here's my first take on this arrangement: When Sunny Gets Blue - Mick-01 - Box.com

Here's my final version: When Sunny Gets Blue - Mick-03 - Box.com

[lawson-stone]

I know I promised you guys I would not post on this tune, but hearing alpop's clip and then the incredible Mel Torme clip got me thinking about the tune. It's still rough but I wanted to post a clip of my attempt at doing the arrangement. I'm still reading it, still missing some notes and needing just a split-second too long to grab a chord, still using a couple of my own more comfortable grips instead of incorporating Arnold's into my repertoire; but that will change as I get more comfortable with it. I've enjoyed working on this arrangement and each one of these teaches me some nice trick of voice-leading or some such that makes it worthwhile for me.
This is done finger style, but I also find playing it with a pick works as well.
This is my MiK Epiphone Broadway with the StewMac Parson Street PAF humbucker, played into a Princeton Reverb Re-issue. I use a Bugera Power Soak for the direct line and the Bluebird "Blue" microphone for the other line.

[Mick-7]

I'm still reading it, still missing some notes and needing just a split-second too long to grab a chord, still using a couple of my own more comfortable grips instead of incorporating Arnold's into my repertoire; but that will change as I get more comfortable with it.

As I mentioned earlier, I think it could be helpful to everyone if we explained what we changed or were inclined to change in an arrangement and the reason for it: hard to play, another chord or chord combination sounded more interesting or flowed better, etc.

[alpop]

I know I promised you guys I would not post on this tune, but hearing alpop's clip and then the incredible Mel Torme clip got me thinking about the tune. It's still rough but I wanted to post a clip of my attempt at doing the arrangement. I'm still reading it, still missing some notes and needing just a split-second too long to grab a chord, still using a couple of my own more comfortable grips instead of incorporating Arnold's into my repertoire; but that will change as I get more comfortable with it. I've enjoyed working on this arrangement and each one of these teaches me some nice trick of voice-leading or some such that makes it worthwhile for me.
This is done finger style, but I also find playing it with a pick works as well.
This is my MiK Epiphone Broadway with the StewMac Parson Street PAF humbucker, played into a Princeton Reverb Re-issue. I use a Bugera Power Soak for the direct line and the Bluebird "Blue" microphone for the other line.

Nice one Lawson! I'm glad that you gave it a shot and posted.

I appreciate your honest self-assessment, but you are 95% there. Just a few more reps and it will smooth out. The sound is great! (Is that a 12" speaker in your amp?)

For myself, it takes so many reps that I find that I have to battle boredom on the way to getting things smooth and musical.

Playing solo and clean like this without resorting to extreme rubato and very slow tempo is VERY hard to do. Add in the pressure of pushing the record button and the difficulty increases.

[lawson-stone]

As I mentioned earlier, I think it could be helpful to everyone if we explained what we changed or were inclined to change in an arrangement and the reason for it: hard to play, another chord or chord combination sounded more interesting or flowed better, etc.

I actually like his arrangement pretty much as is. I think on ballads, solo guitar easily gets draggy and "noodly." Chords are invariably arpeggiated instead of sounding out solidly, to much slurring, and in general I find my ballad playing gets very sloppy and self-absorbed. Arnold's arrangements have a discipline and cleanness that I really enjoy, so I try to play them with a pulse and avoid the pitfalls of ballads on solo guitar.

[PjzzaPie]

Hi all,

I'm sorry I haven't been able to participate much in the discussions - I've just been so busy lately, and the heat wave isn't helping! I did put in some time with this piece, and I have to say it was a real struggle compared to the previous two. I tried to get a take with at least the notes correct, but I just couldn't do it. I love the harmonies and color changes, but I had a hard time internalizing the melody. To me the melody sounds great when it's being sung somewhat freely over an accompaniment (particularly fond of Sarah Vaughn's version on the album Sarah + 2, accompanied by Barney Kessel), and I could not bring that out in the arrangement. This one was frustrating, and I'm looking forward to moving on.

[PjzzaPie]

Here's my shot at a "verbatim" performance. Not exact, but pretty close.

As I have practiced this I've come up with some ideas for variations etc. If there is time, I'll post another version before we move on to the next tune.

This is a nice rendition! I am impressed with your pick accuracy - I think that would be my preferred right hand technique if I were better at it.

[Mick-7]

I actually like his arrangement pretty much as is. I think on ballads, solo guitar easily gets draggy and "noodly." Chords are invariably arpeggiated instead of sounding out solidly, to much slurring, and in general I find my ballad playing gets very sloppy and self-absorbed. Arnold's arrangements have a discipline and cleanness that I really enjoy, so I try to play them with a pulse and avoid the pitfalls of ballads on solo guitar.

How interesting.... I like breaking up the chords (that's obvious from the tracks I posted). Just as a discipline, I think I'll avoid it and see how it turns out.


I wrote out my arrangement, mostly so I could remember what I changed. It is attached.

Most of the harmony is close to the original, just a few modified chord voicings or substitutes for his plain jane chords, plus passing chords added, and chords played in different positions than Arnold. For example, I played bars 5-6 of the A section in the 1st position rather than the 6th position because, frankly, I thought his transition from 3 note bass string chords to full 5-6 note chords was clumsy and mediocre.

I borrowed Barry Greene's contrary motion idea for the last two bars of the B section (melody ascends while bass descends). I'm not even sure what to name the chord that precedes the Gm7 in the last bar, probably Db/G (Db major triad with G bass).
So my chord progression is: Fmaj7 > F6 > Db7#9/Ab > Db/G | Gm7 > C13b5

My ending is a series of symmetrical chord voicings, which would also have diabolical names. My intro is a take on the original scores two bar introduction that I posted earlier (but I didn't write it down).

The timing in my chart is not accurate, it's too much of a hassle to notate exact rhythms with the Guitar-Pro app so I usually settle for having the correct chords per bar.

P.S. - Contrary to rumor, it's not true that you must play a Telecaster to participate in this group (I don't).

[lawson-stone]

In other news... gentlemen I'm interested in the chord progression for this tune. How would you analyze it? I find it very pleasing to listen to but it doesn't fit any of the molds we are used to seeing in standards.

[Mick-7]

This is how I look at it:

A section [F Major]:

|| IIm7 - V7 | IIm7(b5) sub & relative V7 (IVm7-bVII7| IM7 - IIm7 | IIIm7 - V7 of II |

| II7 (Bm7b5 = G9) - IIm7 sub again | IIIm7 - II7 sub (previous bar down a whole step) | IIm7 - V7 | IIIm7 - V7 of II ||

(or the simple view would be to think of this series of chords as chromatic harmony: Bm7/Bbm7/Am7/Abm7/Gm7 )

B section: Modulates to D Major for 4 bars and then back to F major - Dm7, etc.

[alpop]

Here's my second try.

I put a little intro on, and added some stuff, but hanging it on the original arrangement.

I recorded this out the back of a Tonemaster Deluxe into a Focusrite Scarlett Solo plugged straight into my old phone.

[lawson-stone]

Here's my second try.

I put a little intro on, and added some stuff, but hanging it on the original arrangement.

I recorded this out the back of a Tonemaster Deluxe into a Focusrite Scarlett Solo plugged straight into my old phone.

Enjoyed that! You gave it a really hard swing feel.

[Chris_S]

Hey, you guys are sounding great! I finally made a recording this afternoon but I'm having problems with my laptop so it's just the cell phone audio which is frustrating. On this particular arrangement I didn't like all the large five and six string chords because they wear my hand out, but overall it's a nice sounding arrangement. This is as good as I could get it in two weeks:

[lawson-stone]

Hey, you guys are sounding great! I finally made a recording this afternoon but I'm having problems with my laptop so it's just the cell phone audio which is frustrating. On this particular arrangement I didn't like all the large five and six string chords because they wear my hand out, but overall it's a nice sounding arrangement. This is as good as I could get it in two weeks:

Well done indeed! One thing ironically I LIKE about these arrangements is the 6 string chords. It's odd, but jazz guitar actually makes us lazy about bar chords. We play these 3 and 4 note voicings and disdain as "cowboy chords" the 5 and 6 string chords, especially if they require a bar. I'm struggling to make those like most others on here, but I've decided to try to lean into these more so I don't lose that aspect of technique completely.

[AllanAllen]

Well done indeed! One thing ironically I LIKE about these arrangements is the 6 string chords. It's odd, but jazz guitar actually makes us lazy about bar chords. We play these 3 and 4 note voicings and disdain as "cowboy chords" the 5 and 6 string chords, especially if they require a bar. I'm struggling to make those like most others on here, but I've decided to try to lean into these more so I don't lose that aspect of technique completely.

I think jazz education has something to do with that. You watch clips of Joe Pass, Kenny Burrell, and Barney Kessel, it looks like they use bar chords all the time. Could just be how they hold their hands, I haven't transcribed, just something I noticed as I casually watched concert footage.

[Mick-7]

I think jazz education has something to do with that. You watch clips of Joe Pass, Kenny Burrell, and Barney Kessel, it looks like they use bar chords all the time. Could just be how they hold their hands, I haven't transcribed, just something I noticed as I casually watched concert footage.

I have transcribed them and only rarely will they use the sort of full six-string chords that Arnold has in this arrangement - I have seen Barney Kessel use them for his open string oriented arrangements, e.g., his rendition of Alfie. It looks like they are barring, as you said, but that's because they work out of fret-board positions, using related chord voicings adjacent to one another. A good example of that is Kenny Burrell's 'Round Midnight chords that I posted in another thread (I've attached it again here, I just noticed that a couple of the chords should be played in a different position than what I notated).

Some common chord voicings appear to be barred, but it's just the easiest way to finger them if you're playing fingerstyle or pick with fingers.

For example, if I play these chords, it'll look like I'm barring at the 3rd fret:

Dm9: x-5-3-5-5-x >> G7b5: 3-x-3-4-4-x

G7: 3-x-3-4-3-x >> CM7: x-3-5-4-5-x

Versus the folk-rock barre chords like this in Arnold's arrangement:

C7: 8-10-8-9-8-8 >> Bb7: 6-8-6-7-6-6


P.S. - Here's the Barney Kessel chord melody I referenced in which he uses barre chords with open strings.

Here's another one, but he arpeggiates the big chord voicings.

[lawson-stone]

Nice one Lawson! I'm glad that you gave it a shot and posted.

I appreciate your honest self-assessment, but you are 95% there. Just a few more reps and it will smooth out. The sound is great! (Is that a 12" speaker in your amp?)

For myself, it takes so many reps that I find that I have to battle boredom on the way to getting things smooth and musical.

Playing solo and clean like this without resorting to extreme rubato and very slow tempo is VERY hard to do. Add in the pressure of pushing the record button and the difficulty increases.

I neglected to reply to the question about my amp. This Princeton was a "special" offered through Sweetwater and yes, it came with the 12" speaker, which I like a lot. I also like the cabinet color.

[supersoul]

Well done indeed! One thing ironically I LIKE about these arrangements is the 6 string chords. It's odd, but jazz guitar actually makes us lazy about bar chords. We play these 3 and 4 note voicings and disdain as "cowboy chords" the 5 and 6 string chords, especially if they require a bar. I'm struggling to make those like most others on here, but I've decided to try to lean into these more so I don't lose that aspect of technique completely.

I agree, barre chords sound so "guitary." This arrangement made me reckon with my bias against them. They're actually pretty cool here.

[pamosmusic]

I think jazz education has something to do with that. You watch clips of Joe Pass, Kenny Burrell, and Barney Kessel, it looks like they use bar chords all the time. Could just be how they hold their hands, I haven't transcribed, just something I noticed as I casually watched concert footage.

I don’t think that’s it.

Theres always been that dichotomy … Barney and Kenny Burrell are going for that big percussive sound.

Ed Bickert was playing much smaller shapes a very long time ago and he was hardly a jazz ed robot.

Also Joe Pass used looooaaaaads of little three string shapes too. Just depends on the situation and that’s probably the practical reality of it. Jim Hall with Bill Evans vs Jim Hall w Sonny Rollins.

In general, jazz guitar has evolved to be more punchy, spacious sort of thing than the driving rhythm guitar from the 50s. Gilad Hekselman literally has a whole course of stuff he calls “Big Chord.” They’re just used for a more textural sort of thing. Then you have Peter Bernstein and Ed Cherry and the like who use the big rhythm guitar shapes, mute and strum percussively, etc.

So stylistic changes more than anything