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  1. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by rlrhett View Post
    Completely disagree. Typical "conservative" hypocrisy. If it is a program that has a name and may benefit working people (especially of color) it is an "entitlement" that simply cannot stand. If it is a program buried deep in the tax code cynically targeted to a tiny affluent elite then we call call it "tax expenditures".

    Targeted corporate tax breaks cost the federal government $1.27 Trillion a year. FAR more than any "entitlement" program. If you add in individual tax breaks that go almost exclusively to upper earners the cost soars to $2.61 Trillion.

    Social security and medicare (bar far the largest entitlements by an order of magnitude) would be solvent and running a surplus if the wealthy were required to contribute. As it is, any compensation over $100,000 is exempt as is ALL investment income. Guess who gets "investment income"? Someone working two jobs 80 hours a week to make ends meet, or a CEO with stock options? To pretend that caring for the elderly, hungry, and sick is somehow beyond our means while we spend more in tax breaks for fossil fuel companies than food stamps is difficult to stomach.

    BTW, you can confirm these numbers at the Department of Treasury. Simply look for the report on "Tax Expenditures". I know that goes against the innuendos and unsupported statements of the likes of Alex Jones. But if you were wondering, that conflict between hard numbers and unsupported statements is why some people call it "alt-right". Maybe we aren't getting dumber, it's just become OK to say things that are demonstrably false so long as they support our world view.
    Conservative hypocrisy eh? I would counter with the charge of typical liberal "tax lover propaganda".

    Please try to get your head wrapped around this myth, a real myth, and that is that tax cuts "cost" something. Here's the problem. Taxes are revenues (yes, they even call them that). Well, revenues are not costs. An increase in revenues does not lower costs. A decrease in revenues does not raise costs.

    Accounting 101.

    The simple truth is that the government either confiscates people's money (yes, it's their money) or they don't. Spending is what costs something. That's true for individuals, families, businesses, the government, etc. If one doesn't obligate themselves or others to spend on something, then there are no costs.

    Tax lovers always move the goalposts around when they use the term "wealthy", as you have done. Many tax lovers would classify my family as wealthy and I can solemnly assure that we "contribute", and one hell of a lot. Between fed and state it's almost 50%.

    The tax and regulatory policies of recent years put a big damper on the economy, jobs, and the degree and rate of the post 2008 recovery, and everybody knows it. We are now taking in record revenues, and yet it's still not enough.

    Spending like a drunken sailor is the disease, not doing so is the cure.

  2. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzstdnt View Post
    Do you think that they would be wise (i.e. less dumb) to implement desalination like Israel has done?
    I suppose desalination would be a good idea. I can't think of any downside except the expense. But they'll just have to buck up to it. You've got to pay to play. I don't care what you're trying to do if you don't have water you're out of business.

  3. #93
    Dumb and dumber: why we’re getting less intelligent-lake-mead-water-levels-shrinking[1]-gif

  4. #94
    Oh noooo!!!!
    We'll be OK.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzstdnt View Post
    Seriously? You need me to link sources for you so that you can understand the costs of; Welfare, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and the Affordable Care Act?

    Well, how 'bout no. There's no need. It's too fundamental. You can easily find it yourself. That's the challenge, a lot of people want to disassociate the reality of these costs with their thinking so that they don't have to think too much about it. They just want the programs and don't want to think about where they come from.

    If there's another big cost to lay at the feet of the RINOs I'm all ears. I already know about the Wahhabism wars, of course.
    I'm guessing you haven't heard about the new tax code? I'm guessing you don't actually have numbers, either.

    Forgive my bluntness, but if you can't be bothered to support your claim with decent sources, I'm going to regard your claim as another PIDOOMA-point.

    While you're fetching that knowledge, you might want to check out stuff like tax code and corporate shelters. Take your time; I'll wait.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzstdnt View Post
    The tax and regulatory policies of recent years put a big damper on the economy, jobs, and the degree and rate of the post 2008 recovery, and everybody knows it. We are now taking in record revenues, and yet it's still not enough.
    [Citation needed]

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by rlrhett View Post

    Targeted corporate tax breaks cost the federal government $1.27 Trillion a year. FAR more than any "entitlement" program. If you add in individual tax breaks that go almost exclusively to upper earners the cost soars to $2.61 Trillion. .
    The US govt spent just under 4 trillion in 2016 and 2.7 trillion of it went to Social security, Medicare, Medicaid, unemployment insurance, and veterans benefits. 600 billion to the military, 240 billion on debt-interest payments, 114 billion for education. That left roughly 6 % for everything else (crop subsides, highway repair, space travel, foreign aid...)

    This, though, is all very far afield from the great reduction of extreme poverty worldwide.
    World Poverty Clock

    The hope was to end extreme poverty by 2030. It's possible that could happen "on schedule", though it may end a little later than that. In either case, tremendous gains have been made in a fairly short time. In terms of human history, it's happening "overnight."
    "I know nothing about the subject, and despite that have no opinion." Eugene Volokh

  8. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Thumpalumpacus View Post
    I'm guessing you haven't heard about the new tax code? I'm guessing you don't actually have numbers, either.

    Forgive my bluntness, but if you can't be bothered to support your claim with decent sources, I'm going to regard your claim as another PIDOOMA-point.

    While you're fetching that knowledge, you might want to check out stuff like tax code and corporate shelters. Take your time; I'll wait.
    We can't be talking about the same thing. The inception to date costs for those social programs are astronomical. That's the simple point. We started with a post about IQ being related to nurture as opposed to nature (so to speak), education was linked to nurture/environment, then poverty linked to quality and extent of education, etc. At this point I'm not sure what your point is - that those big 5 programs have been cheap?

    Whatever, have a good day.

  9. #99
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    Another article

    This link is to the abstract on a paper about IQ decline worldwide.

    >>>We show here that there is dysgenic fertility in the world population quantified by a correlation of ?0.73 between IQ and fertility across nations. It is estimated that the effect of this has been a decline in the world's genotypic IQ of 0.86 IQ points for the years 1950–2000. A further decline of 1.28 IQ points in the world's genotypic IQ is projected for the years 2000–2050. In the period 1950–2000 this decline has been compensated for by a rise in phenotypic intelligence known as the Flynn Effect, but recent studies in four economically developed countries have found that this has now ceased or gone into reverse.<<<<

    The decline of the world's IQ - ScienceDirect
    "I know nothing about the subject, and despite that have no opinion." Eugene Volokh

  10. #100
    They tested the WORLD's IQ? That was clever. How?

    No one asked me! And I'm easy to find, not being North Korean or a Lithuanian peasant.... or a new born baby.

  11. #101
    I don't know if people are getting dumber or smarter. I do wonder about cell phone use sometimes;



  12. #102
    We're born with the intelligence we have. Some are bright, others less so. We don't get more stupid or more intelligent beyond our natural capacity. But circumstances can affect our output.

    Drink a ton of booze every day and you'll get slow, obviously. It doesn't mean you become stupid, just dull and lethargic. Live clean and employ your mind constructively and the brain will sharpen up. Probably technology has made our brains sharper. I'm talking generally, not about those who abuse it. Information is instantly available... all kinds of things; it's recognised as a learning tool. But it won't make you suddenly more intelligent than you already are.

    (Those people in the Chinese video are probably not actually stupid as such, they've just allowed themselves to be taken over by a distracting interest, temporarily one hopes!)

  13. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by mrcee View Post
    Well for one thing this thread is about intelligence but concerning poverty $10/day is a little skimpy for almost anywhere especially when the other half of that statistic is 70% of the world's population. Read cost of living estimates for various places. It's surprising how high they are for even Third World countries. The days of Mexico on $5 a Day are long gone. And Costa Rica ain't the Philippines, India or Somalia. Even those places are getting more expensive. Someone once said that comparing Mexico to India was like comparing the bow and arrow to nuclear war. Inflation is a big deal almost everywhere. Granted, someone in India who in the not too distant past was living under a piece if plastic may now have a job at a call center and own a cell phone but he's on the top of the Third World food chain and his lifestyle may still be on the poverty level by the standards of the developed world. And it's a fair argument that most of the World has always lived in poverty. I've lived in a few Third World corners of this planet and actually spend most of my time in one of the better corners at this very moment. For one thing housing prices, to purchase, in many places in the US can be cheaper than a lot of the so called Third World and rents aren't as cheap as you might think. If someone takes issue with this, fine. Post away but I won't get into the argument.

    oh yeah and btw imo California has failed. I moved from there to Texas several years ago and went to the Dept of Motor Vehicles to change my driver's license etc. I was talking to the young woman at the counter who was asking me about Calif. She looked at me in terror with her eyes the size of fried eggs and said trembling ''We've heard all of the horror stories.....'' It's not that bad. It's better than the Sudan or No. Korea but obviously has a reputation, deserved or not.

    Back to people being dumber than a box of rocks......
    I'm oblivious to economics but know too much about the bottom line in music.
    Is Cali that bad? I only know National City. What's up with these prices for homes, rent and hotels in Diego? Geez.
    Since the weather is ideal that might account for so many homeless people. Homeless people in Vegas work on the strip. It wouldn't be the strip without them.
    I thought about sleeping in my car for a night of two in San Diego instead of getting ripped off by some overpriced Hotel California.
    All kinds of threads came up about where it might be safe to sleep in your car in California.
    The beaches must be made of gold these days.

    I'm going to check out my old stomping ground out there this weekend.
    I'll try not to get arrested for walking or sleeping.

    I just like the ocean. There's nothing like it.

  14. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1 View Post
    We're born with the intelligence we have. Some are bright, others less so. We don't get more stupid or more intelligent beyond our natural capacity. But circumstances can affect our output.
    Well, given that this is about IQ, which requires one to read a question and understand a problem set, some education is required. So call it functional intelligence if you like.

    So generally speaking, unless one intends to sit in a sensory deprivation tank their entire life, the more education, the better. One should never stop striving to learn.

  15. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzstdnt View Post
    Well, given that this is about IQ, which requires one to read a question and understand a problem set, some education is required. So call it functional intelligence if you like.

    So generally speaking, unless one intends to sit in a sensory deprivation tank their entire life, the more education, the better. One should never stop striving to learn.
    Absolutely. Mind you, education is generally technical, to do with knowledge and skill. It hasn't produced people who have solved the human-created problems we face. It's a very narrow version of what being educated means. Educated means civilised, and we are hardly that.

  16. #106
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    Dumb and dumber: why we’re getting less intelligent

    That’s because in part very bright people (in the STEM sense) are highly incentivised to work in the financial services and information technology sectors.

    This is not a matter of greed. It’s do with the stagnation of middle class pay.

  17. #107
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    (There are non technical problems of course. But technical problems are a definite part of it.)

  18. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevebol View Post
    I'm oblivious to economics but know too much about the bottom line in music.
    Is Cali that bad? I only know National City. What's up with these prices for homes, rent and hotels in Diego? Geez.
    Since the weather is ideal that might account for so many homeless people. Homeless people in Vegas work on the strip. It wouldn't be the strip without them.
    I thought about sleeping in my car for a night of two in San Diego instead of getting ripped off by some overpriced Hotel California.
    All kinds of threads came up about where it might be safe to sleep in your car in California.
    The beaches must be made of gold these days.

    I'm going to check out my old stomping ground out there this weekend.
    I'll try not to get arrested for walking or sleeping.

    I just like the ocean. There's nothing like it.
    Cali's alright otherwise why would so many people want to go there. It's just too expensive and the cities and suburbs are congested. That's the obvious bottom line and all of the attendant problems of dysfunction follow in it's wake.

    plus one on not getting arrested. The old joke is ''come to California on vacation, leave on probation.'' Or parole if they really get you. CA has ALWAYS been a police state. I've heard the statistic that a larger percentage of the population is incarcerated than anywhere else in the world outside of maybe South Africa. My aunt and uncle from the east coast were visiting my cousin in LA around 1991 and were appalled at the police presence everywhere. They were reasonably well healed in their late 60s from the upscale suburbs of NYC in Connecticut so were hardly any kind of low life hoodlums but they found the cop thing to be awful.

    Read the City of Quartz by Mike Davis when you get the chance. His bottom line is that the main business of CA has always been real estate, going back as far as the original Spanish land grants.

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