Making A Laminate Jazz Guitar: Episode 1: Buying Wood For Veneers

[Archie]

Hi all.

I've put together a video regarding my wood buying and what I've been learning over the last year.
This is all about stocking up on wood for laminate guitar production. All the neck wood will be cured for up to 3-4 months prior to machining, in a climate controlled room, so it can cure down to the right humidity content for stability.
Most of the wood in this video is going to be made into veneers and as such, the wood does not need to be treated in the same way.
Although I will cut and store the veneers, in the same controlled environment.

Wood buying is my favourite part so far. I do feel anxious when doing so however as I don't want to waste money on wood I either will not or cannot use. Luckily I have some good advisors who are helping me learn and it seems, talking wood, is a nice way to shoot the breeze. One person in particular has taken real time to help me build my knowledge (which is still incipient). He takes me around the entire site, showing me different woods, how they cut and cure them, how they kiln dry them etc.. It's a real university education for free and I've told him how grateful I am.

This might also be a fun look at English saw mills and timber yards for those outside of the UK. The UK has an abundance of Ash, Oak, Yew, Walnut, London Plane, Wild Service etc.. but not really woods for guitar manufacturing. I try to buy as much English wood as I can but at least half of it comes from Africa.

In Episode 2, I will be cutting the wood up and making it into veneers.

Anyway, enough jabbering.

[Archie]

If anyone knows of places I can post media that can help draw attention to my channel, I'd appreciate it.

It's something I'm naturally inclined to not want to do but if I don't do any marketing, or increase awareness, then my rate of success is going to be much lower.

I've had a look at TGP but I do not understand it very well and cannot really find the right thread for me to start posting in.
I know there are luthier forums but again am hesitant to post on them because I am somewhat of an imposter in this area.

[Sam Sherry]

Maestro, who are you trying to reach?


FWIW I enjoy TGP but it's Standard Interweb Crankiness, in contrast to the measured discussions usually found right here.
I could picture you as a contributor over there in:
Guitars In General
The Small Company Luthiers
Luthier's Guitar & Bass Techniques for sure
Guitars For Sale -- Commercial Sellers

Lastly there's this:

I know there are luthier forums but again am hesitant to post on them because I am somewhat of an imposter in this area.

In 1982-83 I apprenticed with Froc Fillipetti and Ron Bolduc at The Guitar Clinic in Hartford, CT. Ronnie said something about fret-mill jobs which has proven true about everything else: "Sam, the first two hundred are the toughest."
You will be past that, and on to more advanced mistakes, in no time flat.

[Archie]

Sam thanks for the tip re: TGP

Hey if I get to make 200, I’ll have exceeded my expectations!

Cheers

[voxo]

looks like a 1 man show at the moment..how many will you employ...dunno ...you might do all the processes yourself...you seem to do everything with a precision..like Jimmy D`Aquisto...An Inside Look: A Special Collection Of D'Aquisto Guitars - Jazz Guitar Today

[GuyBoden]

Do you know the thinnest a laminate top can be without deforming under string pressure?

[Brian859]

You got to my favorite part. Looking at wood. Can't go wrong with mahogany or sapele. Even plain, it looks good, sounds great and I think everyone respects it for necks, backs and sides.

[Archie]

Do you know the thinnest a laminate top can be without deforming under string pressure?

I don’t but I’m going to ask Roger Sadowski.

I think I know, that is I suspect, you can make them thinner if you removed the fholes. They make no structural sense imo, so I will be aiming to make some plates with this in mind.

So far I think you can go down to about 3.5-4mm. I’m assuming that is what the Sadowski’s are.

[Archie]

You got to my favorite part. Looking at wood. Can't go wrong with mahogany or sapele. Even plain, it looks good, sounds great and I think everyone respects it for necks, backs and sides.

Interesting, thanks Brian.

[Archie]

looks like a 1 man show at the moment..how many will you employ...dunno ...you might do all the processes yourself...you seem to do everything with a precision..like Jimmy D`Aquisto...An Inside Look: A Special Collection Of D'Aquisto Guitars - Jazz Guitar Today

I won’t be able to employ anyone until I can make some money.
I’m hoping to design more manufacturing techniques (like my veneer cutting tools), so that I can do the work by myself but also keep costs and price down.
Thanks for the compliment and link. Let’s hope mine sound nearly as good!

[Brian859]

Interesting, thanks Brian.

No problem archie. I know I'm slightly in the minority, I rather have a guitar that plays great, sounds great with excellent sustain over the looks. But having been involved in many product launches and prototyping, I always looked for funtion over appearance at the beginning. Then getting all blinged out when you have that part down. Just my literal 2 cents worth.

[Archie]

No problem archie. I know I'm slightly in the minority, I rather have a guitar that plays great, sounds great with excellent sustain over the looks. But having been involved in many product launches and prototyping, I always looked for funtion over appearance at the beginning. Then getting all blinged out when you have that part down. Just my literal 2 cents worth.

I couldn’t agree more!

[John A.]

I don’t but I’m going to ask Roger Sadowski.

I think I know, that is I suspect, you can make them thinner if you removed the fholes. They make no structural sense imo, so I will be aiming to make some plates with this in mind.

So far I think you can go down to about 3.5-4mm. I’m assuming that is what the Sadowski’s are.

I never measured the one I had, but Godin 5th Avenues have the thinnest laminated tops I've ever seen (made from wild cherry), and quite a lively unplugged sound. Might be worth trying to talk to them about how they manage it.

[mr. beaumont]

I never measured the one I had, but Godin 5th Avenues have the thinnest laminated tops I've ever seen (made from wild cherry), and quite a lively unplugged sound. Might be worth trying to talk to them about how they manage it.

Yeah, I'm looking at my Kingpin right now, and the top is about 2mm thick.

It's not the most pronounced arch, mind you...but it also hasn't sunk...I've had the guitar about 16 years.

[Archie]

I never measured the one I had, but Godin 5th Avenues have the thinnest laminated tops I've ever seen (made from wild cherry), and quite a lively unplugged sound. Might be worth trying to talk to them about how they manage it.

Interesting. I've played one some years ago and thought they had a very pronounced acoustic tone for a laminate, I can see the appeal.

[Archie]

Yeah, I'm looking at my Kingpin right now, and the top is about 2mm thick.

It's not the most pronounced arch, mind you...but it also hasn't sunk...I've had the guitar about 16 years.

Interesting. Thanks for the measurements!

[Jim Soloway]

Having been through this process (although for a very different end result) I would like to make a suggestion: don't concern yourself so much with whether you think you may or will use the wood. I say this because I got into the habit of just buying anything that I thought was really interesting and/or was a particularly good deal and just stored it away. Eventually I began selling off wood that we clearly weren't going to use and it became a very profitable side line. I thought of it as subsidizing the wood that we did actually use, bringing down our production costs. It also got me a lot of price breaks for what were considered quantity purchases. The most obvious was for the purchase of swamp ash (the main wood we used for our back and core).

There were minimum quantities of swamp ash needed to place a bulk order and further price breaks as the quantity ordered increased. The catch was that I couldn't be as specific about the density. I would order as much as I could pay for, take out the wood that had the lowest weight per board foot, and sell the rest. It made me enough money that my swamp ash was almost free and I was getting what I considered to be the best of each batch. I would also buy huge amounts of figured maple (much of which was being harvested less than 100 miles from my home), keep the pieces that really appealed to me and sell of bunches of it.

All of this was part of what made our last few years also our most profitable years. It's a difficult business in which to make money. Generating a revenue stream from your wood acquisitions helps make it a little easier.

[Archie]

Having been through this process (although for a very different end result) I would like to make a suggestion: don't concern yourself so much with whether you think you may or will use the wood. I say this because I got into the habit of just buying anything that I thought was really interesting and/or was a particularly good deal and just stored it away. Eventually I began selling off wood that we clearly weren't going to use and it became a very profitable side line. I thought of it as subsidizing the wood that we did actually use, bringing down our production costs. It also got me a lot of price breaks for what were considered quantity purchases. The most obvious was for the purchase of swamp ash (the main wood we used for our back and core).

There were minimum quantities of swamp ash needed to place a bulk order and further price breaks as the quantity ordered increased. The catch was that I couldn't be as specific about the density. I would order as much as I could pay for, take out the wood that had the lowest weight per board foot, and sell the rest. It made me enough money that my swamp ash was almost freed and I was getting what I considered to be the best of each batch. I would also buy huge amounts of figured maple (much of which was being harvested less than 100 miles from my home), keep the pieces that really appealed to me and sell of bunches of it.

All of this was part of what made our last few years also our most profitable years. It's a difficult business in which to make money. Generating a revenue stream from your wood acquisitions helps make it a little easier.

Jim, thanks a lot for the tip. It had occurred to me when looking at veneers and figured boards, that I could make some money. I actually bought the domain VeneerHeaven.com lol Just in case it would be a good side hustle.

If you have more advice down the line, please share. You have a wealth on knowledge in the guitar manufacturing world and I’d be keen to learn it.

Cheers!

[Jim Soloway]

Jim, thanks a lot for the tip. It had occurred to me when looking at veneers and figured boards, that I could make some money. I actually bought the domain VeneerHeaven.com lol Just in case it would be a good side hustle.

If you have more advice down the line, please share. You have a wealth on knowledge in the guitar manufacturing world and I’d be keen to learn it.

Cheers!

Probably the best advice I can ever give you is don't ever design a guitar you can't easily get a case for (and preferably with as many backups as possible). Custom cases are a night mare.

[Archie]

Probably the best advice I can ever give you is don't ever design a guitar you can't easily get a case for (and preferably with as many backups as possible). Custom cases are a night mare.

Jim that hadn’t even crossed my mind. Sounds like good advice!

I once had a fantasy to restart Harptone cases but it turns out, they never went away.