is this binding rot?

**SOLR** · 02-01-2023, 09:00 PM

Binding seems to be separating from body and of course its colour is somewhat off:

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**daverepair** · 02-01-2023, 10:10 PM

Yes, it looks like it could be the beginning of celluloid deterioration. What brand and year of guitar?

**InsufferableRhythm** · 02-01-2023, 10:41 PM

"1987 Ibanez GB10".

**wintermoon** · 02-01-2023, 10:42 PM

Definitely, know it all too well. Typical of many Japanese guitars of the 70s-80s
You may get lucky though, some just turn brown and shrink a bit, others begin crumbling into a mess.

**SOLR** · 02-01-2023, 10:48 PM

Originally Posted by InsufferableRhythm

"1987 Ibanez GB10".

ah! you saw it too....or is it yours ? .

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**InsufferableRhythm** · 02-02-2023, 01:01 AM

Nah, not mine. Just looked super familiar and I remembered where I had seen it.

**ARGewirtz** · 02-02-2023, 08:55 AM

Originally Posted by SOLR

Binding seems to be separating from body and of course its colour is somewhat off:

S

I have 3 1970s MIJ guitars, all fortunately in great shape. The binding on all of them has mellowed to a nice caramel color caused by the mellowing of the varnish top coat, which is normal. It gives the guitars the character of a vintage instrument and is not by itself indicative of binding rot as long as there is no cracking or other signs of deterioration, which is typically caused by off-gassing from the original pickguards. As for the binding separating from the body in the guitar shown in your post, that seems like a whole other issue and beyond my skill set to diagnose.

**nevershouldhavesoldit** · 02-02-2023, 11:10 AM

Originally Posted by ARGewirtz

As for the binding separating from the body in the guitar shown in your post, that seems like a whole other issue and beyond my skill set to diagnose.

The only cause of that kind of separation that I’ve encountered is wood shrinkage from dehydration. It only takes a little to put tension on the interface between binding and wood. The binding doesn’t look like the problem to me, although it’s very hard to tell from a picture. It’s not deformed, shrinking, or breaking up.

**Freeman Keller** · 02-02-2023, 08:34 PM

This is binding rot

is this binding rot?-img_3875-jpg

This is binding rot repaired

is this binding rot?-img_3920-jpg

The original binding on this guitar was white and actually was still white after fifty plus years. The lacquer had aged to a lovely amber color which I had to try to duplicate. Came out OK, the guitar is a player and the owner is happy.

**deacon Mark** · 02-02-2023, 08:44 PM

Repairing bind rot is the worst job a luthier can have. Rebinding a guitar cost serious money. It is probably easier to do brain surgery but the liability is not as great. If I rebind your guitar it has to be well thought out. A $1000 guitar needing full rebind is probably at margin.

**wintermoon** · 02-03-2023, 12:37 AM

Originally Posted by ARGewirtz

I have 3 1970s MIJ guitars, all fortunately in great shape. The binding on all of them has mellowed to a nice caramel color caused by the mellowing of the varnish top coat, which is normal. It gives the guitars the character of a vintage instrument and is not by itself indicative of binding rot as long as there is no cracking or other signs of deterioration, which is typically caused by off-gassing from the original pickguards. As for the binding separating from the body in the guitar shown in your post, that seems like a whole other issue and beyond my skill set to diagnose.

Those MIJ guitars are typically finished w poly, not varnish or lacquer. That's not the finish turning brown on the binding, like lacquer and poly turns yellow, It's the beginning of rot. See how the color is uneven and blotchy? Perfectly illustrated in the pics in the op's post.
Cracking and deterioration of binding can be accelerated by an off gassing guard but is not the main reason, it's usually the binding itself or the glue used to attach it. Sometimes the deterioration slows or stops and you just have brown binding, in more severe cases it starts to shrink, chip and crack, also shown above.

**ARGewirtz** · 02-03-2023, 07:24 AM

Originally Posted by wintermoon

Those MIJ guitars are typically finished w poly, not varnish or lacquer. That's not the finish turning brown on the binding, like lacquer and poly turns yellow, It's the beginning of rot. See how the color is uneven and blotchy? Perfectly illustrated in the pics in the op's post.
Cracking and deterioration of binding can be accelerated by an off gassing guard but is not the main reason, it's usually the binding itself or the glue used to attach it. Sometimes the deterioration slows or stops and you just have brown binding, in more severe cases it starts to shrink, chip and crack, also shown above.

I thought I had learned enough about the MIJ guitars to know what I was talking about but obviously I was wrong

. Thanks for the correction. At least for now the condition of the bindings on my guitars seems to have stabilized but with this new information I'll have to keep a closer eye on the bindings for signs of further deterioration.

**Freeman Keller** · 02-03-2023, 01:05 PM

Binding that separates from the wood can sometimes be reattached by wicking a tiny bit of water thin cyanoacrylate into the seam. Often the binding shrinks and needs a little bit of heat to help stretch it back into position - that often happens on the waists area. Once the binding has been stabilized there is often some finish repairs. The guitar in my earlier pictures was a 1977 Ibanez and the finish was nitrocellulose lacquer, which does make the repair easier than if it had been a catalyzed finish. To repair that binding I was able to route all of the old rotten stuff off keeping the purfling lines. I rebound the guitar and finished over the binding with amber lacquer

**daverepair** · 02-03-2023, 02:08 PM

Originally Posted by Freeman Keller

Binding that separates from the wood can sometimes be reattached by wicking a tiny bit of water thin cyanoacrylate into the seam. Often the binding shrinks and needs a little bit of heat to help stretch it back into position - that often happens on the waists area. Once the binding has been stabilized there is often some finish repairs. The guitar in my earlier pictures was a 1977 Ibanez and the finish was nitrocellulose lacquer, which does make the repair easier than if it had been a catalyzed finish. To repair that binding I was able to route all of the old rotten stuff off keeping the purfling lines. I rebound the guitar and finished over the binding with amber lacquer

Freeman, nice job on that Ibanez rebinding. How did you apply the amber lacquer? Spraying? If so, did you tape off/cover the adjacent sides/top/back?

I ask, because I just completed rebinding a '53 Epi Triumph. Because the old, adjacent lacquer was so checked and brittle, I could not tape it off: the tape(even low tack) would pull off the finish. I ended up brushing on many successive coats of lacquer(with stain wiped on in between), using quality artist's brushes of varying size.. It came out well enough. When possible, I do tape/mask off, if the condition of the finish allows for it.

**Freeman Keller** · 02-03-2023, 02:29 PM

Originally Posted by daverepair

Freeman, nice job on that Ibanez rebinding. How did you apply the amber lacquer? Spraying? If so, did you tape off/cover the adjacent sides/top/back?

I ask, because I just completed rebinding a '53 Epi Triumph. Because the old, adjacent lacquer was so checked and brittle, I could not tape it off: the tape(even low tack) would pull off the finish. I ended up brushing on many successive coats of lacquer(with stain wiped on in between), using quality artist's brushes of varying size.. It came out well enough. When possible, I do tape/mask off, if the condition of the finish allows for it.

Thanks, I was able to mask the new binding and spray a couple of coats of amber, then pull the mask and spray clear over that. I handled the gun like I was doing a sunburst (spraying out from the center and just enough to cover the binding and not add much to the body itself. I your case I would probably have used an air brush.

The seam between the back and sides was slightly opened at the neck block, having the binding out of the way let me stabilize that. Its not perfect but its a heck of a lot better than before.

**SOLR** · 02-09-2023, 07:06 PM

Seller told me it sat in a case for 20yrs.....and nitrate parts gassed off.
I've received a reply from the seller's luthier:
"Hi, There may be some things to address but purely cosmetic. I brought it back a long way. It says I did a "setup" (in the seller's ad) but that's a bit of an understatement. There was a lot of tarnish to clean up, frets were levelled and crowned, everything taken apart and cleaned and then final setup. It's a great sounding guitar and plays very well. I think it sat for far too long in a case which is trouble with the nitrate pickguards and tailpiece decoration. "

So all in all it would be a good buy.....see it here:Ibanez GB10 | Guitars | Ottawa | Kijiji

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