Gypsy Guitar - Brake Angle

[swingtoneman]

I have made my first Gypsy Guitar. Being my first ever guitar build I did not expect a good sound--'low & behold' I am right. Could the main problem be the brake angle at the bridge? The clearance from the tailpiece to the top of the guitar is 1mm--almost touching the top. Extremely low. The string height at the 12th fret is 3/16". Scale length is 25 1/2" It has the standard gypsy guitar tailpiece. Your views on this?

[garybaldy]

No expert but it'll need a neck re-set.
Other than that it looks a great build!

[JSanta]

It's hard to tell from just that one picture, but yes, the break angle looks very shallow. None of my SelMacs have that subtle of an angle. Additionally, it looks like you are using more traditional flat-top strings instead of Gypsy strings; that could also be contributing to the tone issues.

It's really difficult to say otherwise. What construction methods you used, the bracing, etc.. Most Selmer-style petite bouche guitars are 670mm (26.378 inches); short scale grande bouche are 640mm (25.1969 inches); and a typical Busato style is a bit longer than a Selmer at 675mm (26.57 inches).

[swingtoneman]

JSanta--Yes. The guitar currently strung with 80/20 Bronze--for a reason. Originally it was strung with Gypsy 'silk & steel' 11 to 47. Quite a dull sound. Not quite one would expect from a gypsy guitar. I tried 80/20 bronze strings which resulted in slightly brighter sound. But not right for a gypsy guitar. Would the neck reset result in a slightly higher bridge and give a higher rise at the tailpiece break angle?

[JSanta]

I'm not a luthier, so my opinion on what a neck reset would do is limited to conjecture at best. You may want to reach out to someone experienced with building these guitars and ask them for feedback.

You may also consider joining the DjangoBooks forum; several builders frequent that forum and may be able to offer assistance.

[garybaldy]

I looks to me the neck needs to be set to suit a bridge that's about 5mm higher than it is currently.

[pauln]

Is the sound hole really as big as it looks in the photo?

[Jimmy blue note]

Live with it and play it a lot. Every seasoned luthier knows that any instrument needs a break in period in which it blooms from some pieces of wood that have never been shaken up, into a musical instrument.
Before you go about changing anything, give it a little time, I always give an instrument six months of loving and constant playing. Then assess your options.
The break angle is not a lot so your downward pressure is not going to be great, but the wood will become more compliant and the finish will cure. The instrument will change. I have built instruments with shallow break angles, and the attack is softer but their individual character emerged over time.
I'm not going to ask how it was braced as far as the dimensions of the braces, but I will ask how you determined how much scalloping to impart into your braces themselves.

It's a pretty guitar. Love it. Play it. Listen to the voices emerge from your baby, certainly listen to what it tells you before you consider any re-building.

[iim7V7IM7]

Here is a photo of my Lehmann Model Manouche as reference….

[RJVB]

JOriginally it was strung with Gypsy 'silk & steel' 11 to 47.

I read somewhere recently that these guitars usually do not take well to American-style strings, at least not when constructed in traditional fashion and when you're looking for an authentic gypsy-swing sound. For that you really need Savarez Argentine strings.

FWIW, this Maccaferri "Grande Bouche" model was developped originally as a classical guitar, which just happened to react well to steel strings too. This does give some support to the "you need Argentine" strings idea: classical trebles can get close to (light) steel treble string tensions but the wound strings are always a lot lower in tension. That's also the tension profile Argentine sets.

I'm not a luthier but I agree with Jimmy that you'll need to give the instrument some time to settle. Then, rather than change the neck (which would require opening the box I suppose) you could consider taking some weight of the braces to make the top more responsive to lower tensions.

Alternatively you could consider removing just the fretboard and put a thin wedge-shaped shim under it. I've had that done to a violin for the exact same reason (but maybe it's a bad idea on guitars??)

[Freeman Keller]

Nice looking guitar. I haven't built a gypsy jazz guitar so I really can't contribute much to the conversation. A couple of minor points, however. You can calculate the down force on the bridge if you know the string tension and break angle, this makes it simple

Calculating Downforce on the Bridge

People are often surprised by how great it is.

I'm also reminded of this thread that ran in OLF a few years ago.

Official Luthiers Forum! • View topic - Selmer Guitar Tone

I had kind of a similar reaction when I built my first carved top acoustic. I was used to the sound of flat tops, had never really played an archtop and was disappointed in mine. I've spent the past year playing it and trying to bond with it, it gets better but I'm still not there. At first I thought it was a bad guitar but I'm beginning to believe that its more my background and expectations.

Good luck with yours, and report back - I keep thinking I should build one.

[swingtoneman]

Many thanks everybody for your thoughts on my post.

[RJVB]

Oh, and take your foot off the brake - that'll surely help with the sound