The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by AllanAllen
    Attachment 97774

    This is how you want the neck contour?
    Looks like a spaceship! If the fretboard were widened without the neck being widened, yeah, I guess that's what it would looks like. My LH thumb is Hendrix style. What's wrong with the contour? Although one poster he noted that the force used top hammer down the frets might be an issue.

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  3. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by RJVB
    No, but they can rip the bridge off, or do other damage.
    I repeat: you would need to find strings that have a comparably low total tension as a set of nylon strings. For the trebles it's quite easy: a 0.010" 1st string already has a similar tension as the heaviest monofilament (nylon, CF, etc) high E strings.
    The best way to avoid issues is to use one of Thomastik's sets, knowing that they do correspond to "normal-to-light" tension classical strings. Here's the full list of their individual steel strings for CG.



    I see your Seagull has an 1.8" nut, which may indeed be just a tad wider. My Loar and my former Seagull did have nuts that were almost exactly the same width, but the Loar actually has a wider spacing at the nut than the Seagull had. I think there's less chance to pull the E strings off the fretboard near the nut, so widening the spacing there is a little less risky in that aspect than widening at the saddle.



    Maybe. Maybe Jimmy blue note would be willing to give/sell you the plans to the guitar he had Wu build, with an adapted neck (or even help with the initial dealings).

    But let's talk about the sound you're after. Would this correspond?


    I agree with the assessment of the bass strings btw; wound nylons do sound better than their steel-core counter parts, and I know players like Chet Atkins would use them on some of their guitars because of that richer sound.
    Those strings *will* be safe to use on your classical, so it would be an easy and cheap experiment to see if they allow you to get the sound you're after. If so, your best option would be to trade the Seagull in for another classical, one with specs that help you reach that sonic idea even better. Could be an Eastman; their flat-tops are good enough that they are able to sell a "budget" version of the Buscarino Cabaret, which is a wonderful instrument.

    I wouldn't be hammering on this is it weren't clear to me that you're looking for a fingerstyle guitar that doesn't need to have an electromagnetic PU.
    Well, the "set-up" on my Yamaha Silent Electric Classical (2" nut bt no RH spread) has the strings much farther away from the fretboard than for an acoustic or electric. Isn't that normal? How would that work with the strings you advise?

    Also. there is no radius on a Classical. Isn't one necessary to play some Jazz chords? I can play Bossa Nova style chords on my Yamaha, but that's about it.

    What I do not know about Wu is whether he can / will build a wider neck / fretboard. His site doesn't mention any custom stuff.

  4. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by docsteve
    I feel that with all these midgets commenting, there should be a really tall person weighing in It is true that the world is made for people of a certain size, and once you're above this, life gets tricky. (And don't get me started on how everybody feels for people of under-average height, but we really tall ones have to pay extra for just about everything. Size doesn't mean wealth.)

    I am 2.03 m tall, which equals about 6'7''. My hands, though, are smaller than yours - I can play a tenth on the piano, not a twelfth like you. I have played tenor and soprano sax without any modification. I can play the ukulele but it just looks daft.

    Concerning the guitar and your observations. It seems to me that your concerns are not a matter of finger length but finger thickness. Long fingers are perfectly able to execute small and precise movements within a confined space. It's thick fingers that can cause issues because they can actually get in the way - mostly when you touch an adjacent string accidentally while fretting a note.

    As to your right hand video, you do not need to stick a finger between the strings. You pluck them with your fingertip, using a bit of the nail if you wish. Maybe 3 mm of your finger actually go between the strings.

    Concerning the left hand: I can play a F#7 barre chord on the 14th fret of my telecaster, and move it up a couple of steps, too. I just tried my 335 copy with a 24.57 scale and I can play a A7 on the 17th fret - after that the body gets in the way. I can easily switch between a Telecaster and a Classical, whose neck is about 1 cm wider, and I don't feel cramped on the Tele.

    Now I'm not deying your experience but here is what I do: place the fingers as perpendicular to the fretboard as possible. That's Classical guitar technique. A Hendrix chord isn't your first choice to play with this technique, since your thumb is supposed to rest in the middle of the back of the neck. But I tried, and it's not impossible.

    I know this sounds like a nice knock-over argument but have you seen Segovia? That man had absolute sausages for fingers and he still managed to play the most beautiful guitar. (He could also play stretches that would give most people a fright - low F on the 1st fret, E string, an Bb on the 6th fret, e string. Why? Because.)

    Long story short: From the photographs in your earlier post, your fingers don't seem too thick to actually get into the way of each other. Place your fingers perpendicular to the fingerboard and you should be fine on most standard guitars. Of course that doesn't mean that a little extra won't help

    And finally, there is a guy just a couple of miles from L.A., who makes extra wide necks for electrics, and he has even got an acoustic with a 2'' neck: Big Lou Aspen - Big Lou Wide Nut Electric Guitars

    Hope that helps, Stephan
    Nice to hear from another "tall guy"! You're actually an inch taller than I am.

    My video is just to show sizing, not to show that that is how I play. Do your fingers slide between the strings, or do you have to push them apart to put your finger thought the "string plane"?

    Yes, everything costs more, but once in a while... I went to buy a suit in LA a few years ago and ended up at Kosins in Beverly Hills, where all the NBA cats shop. I got a $2000 suit some NBA cat decided he didn't want, for the price of tailoring! They were going to through it away!

    A "standard" guitar? Forget it! The first one I bought was a $500 Kort Joe Beck (amazing guitar!) that feels like a piccolo. It goes to sale soon.

    Also forget putting my thumb on the back of the neck. My thumb would have to be about 1/2 it's length. It's just not possible. If I curl it under thought, I can do it.

    The second guitar I bought was "Big Lou" 335 clone. It needed a complete set-up (expensive here in LA) to be playable. 2" nut, 2" @ RH (not enough, I want 60+ mm there). It's not a great guitar, but it's OK. I see their "Aspen" acoustic. Still no RH string spread.

    I talked to Lou. Defense contractor with $$$. Will talk your ear off. Fascinating cat!

    Thanks for your input, Stephen!

    - Jeff

  5. #54

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    The more I read this thread, the more I begin to believe that your problem is not size, but technique. How long have you been playing guitar? Have you used a teacher? Perhaps instead of trying to adapt instruments to your technique, it might be more productive to adapt your technique to the instruments. Of course, this is just an uninformed observation from a random stranger on the internet.

  6. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by sgosnell
    The more I read this thread, the more I begin to believe that your problem is not size, but technique. How long have you been playing guitar? Have you used a teacher? Perhaps instead of trying to adapt instruments to your technique, it might be more productive to adapt your technique to the instruments. Of course, this is just an uninformed observation from a random stranger on the internet.
    I have virtuoso technique on saxophone and piano, which I've been playing since 1973 and 1969, and I expect to do the same on guitar. I'm just looking for a comfortable instrument that doesn't get in the way.

    As I've stated, I "can" play a normal size guitar (or at least one with a "wide-ish" neck), but it's clear that a larger one fits better, is more comfortable, etc.

    Next time I'm in NY, I'm going to try to get a lesson with Pasquale Grasso. He's half my age, but he's a great player, and he teaches at SUNY Purchase.

  7. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saxophone Tall
    I have virtuoso technique on saxophone and piano, which I've been playing since 1973 and 1969, and I expect to do the same on guitar. I'm just looking for a comfortable instrument that doesn't get in the way.

    As I've stated, I "can" play a normal size guitar (or at least one with a "wide-ish" neck), but it's clear that a larger one fits better, is more comfortable, etc.

    Next time I'm in NY, I'm going to try to get a lesson with Pasquale Grasso. He's half my age, but he's a great player, and he teaches at SUNY Purchase.
    I'm 6'3"-6'4" and can almost reach the piano keys at the same spread you posted, within one key. I just bought a Guild X-170 which is an 1 5/8ths, narrow, at the nut. It's completely usable with no fighting necessary to gain accuracy. It's real comfortable though I would probably select a 1 11/16ths if I had the choice but ultimately it's irrelevant. Your fingers don't really appear to be sausages, they are reasonably long and thin and like me it appears your wrists are rather narrow.

    You didn't really answer sgosnell's question, how long have you been playing guitar? No offense, but that are you a virtuoso on sax and piano really has no bearing if you are 1 or 2 years into playing the guitar to be honest. I play decent blues guitar but just started chromatic harmonica, there is really no changeover, it's a completely different instrument and none of my guitar skills have any bearing on it other than knowing when I'm botching my scales and such i.e ear training.

    Getting your fretting hand limber, quick, and accuracy with speed on a guitar is a long process. It's not like a sax where the keys are where they are and your hands don't have to do anything but press down in the same spots. Or like a piano where there is lots of room for any hand and finger size. You may just be seeking gains by altering the instrument where really it's just a matter of time spent with your guitar and developing your fretting hand.

  8. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saxophone Tall
    Well, the "set-up" on my Yamaha Silent Electric Classical (2" nut bt no RH spread) has the strings much farther away from the fretboard than for an acoustic or electric. Isn't that normal? How would that work with the strings you advise?
    You mean height between top of frets and bottom of strings, aka action? It's normal that this is heigher on a classical, and it would work exactly the same with the strings I suggested you try because they have comparably low tension. (That means they can vibrate with a bigger excursion and thus need that extra height to prevent fret buzz.)

    Also. there is no radius on a Classical. Isn't one necessary to play some Jazz chords? I can play Bossa Nova style chords on my Yamaha, but that's about it.
    Classicals with a radiussed fretboard do exist but I don't see why you would need that for playing jazz chords. Classical music may not be "thought in" the complex (if not esoteric) chords jazz is but that doesn't mean you never have to put your fingers in comparably complicated positions. Also, if you talk with classical pros about playing classical music on acoustic steel-strung guitar there will always be a moment where it is pointed out that they may not be playing bar chords all the time (or with anything but the index finger) but it is very common that a bar chord has to be maintained for measure(s) while the other fingers continue to do their little dance. I'm currently struggling with a few such fragments in otherwise comparatively easy pieces by Llobet and Barrios.

    What I do not know about Wu is whether he can / will build a wider neck / fretboard. His site doesn't mention any custom stuff.
    AFAIK he'll build anything if he has sufficiently detailed plans and/or understanding of the goal. Your goal isn't difficult: you want a neck (with a neck profile of your choice) that matches a fingerboard of a given width at the 12th, 14th and/or 19th (or whatever) fret. No rocket science here. You could also ask him to build a classical neck with a given nutwidth and radius.

  9. #58

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    I’m average height and hand size, and I can’t slip my finger between the guitar strings either. That isn’t how we pluck the strings.

    Is It Possible To Widen An Existing Fretboard / Replace Fretboard With A Wider One?-e2f24110-28a3-432f-ad27-dec87b9455ea-jpeg

  10. #59

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    Pasquale has long fingers, as others have stated, and he can harmoniously reach 9 frets from the 9th and he can do this all day long.. He's no slouch with the RH either....

    S
    Attached Images Attached Images Is It Possible To Widen An Existing Fretboard / Replace Fretboard With A Wider One?-screen-shot-2022-12-31-14-27-09-png 

  11. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by DawgBone
    I'm 6'3"-6'4" and can almost reach the piano keys at the same spread you posted, within one key. I just bought a Guild X-170 which is an 1 5/8ths, narrow, at the nut. It's completely usable with no fighting necessary to gain accuracy. It's real comfortable though I would probably select a 1 11/16ths if I had the choice but ultimately it's irrelevant. Your fingers don't really appear to be sausages, they are reasonably long and thin and like me it appears your wrists are rather narrow.

    You didn't really answer sgosnell's question, how long have you been playing guitar? No offense, but that are you a virtuoso on sax and piano really has no bearing if you are 1 or 2 years into playing the guitar to be honest. I play decent blues guitar but just started chromatic harmonica, there is really no changeover, it's a completely different instrument and none of my guitar skills have any bearing on it other than knowing when I'm botching my scales and such i.e ear training.

    Getting your fretting hand limber, quick, and accuracy with speed on a guitar is a long process. It's not like a sax where the keys are where they are and your hands don't have to do anything but press down in the same spots. Or like a piano where there is lots of room for any hand and finger size. You may just be seeking gains by altering the instrument where really it's just a matter of time spent with your guitar and developing your fretting hand.
    Well, there's a lot more to saxophone technique than what you suggest, but that's another story. Same with piano. Most piano players would KILL for my hands; they are perfect for piano.

    My hands are lightning fast always have been. Some folks here are not understanding my point, but that's OK. I was 6' 3" when I was about 15, and I wore a size 13 shoe then, too. But I can't wear a size 13 shoe today (16 now), nor the clothes that I wore back then.

    I have a nice 1987 Schwinn Tempo racing bike that's ideally sized for a 6'4" guy. I "can" ride it but .. it hurts after about an hour. I "can" wear a size 15 shoe, but I'll get blisters. I "can" play golf with standard size clubs, but I play much better with ones that fit me (which are a whopping 7" longer than standard). I "can" cram into a normal car, but I have a van instead, which is actually comfortable for me. And I "can" play a smaller guitar, but why do so if something that actually fits properly can be had? Hardly anything fits me "off the shelf." Why would guitar be the one thing in my life that fits "as is"?

    Heck, I "can" date a 4'11" chick (and I have), but why, when 6' chicks exist? (all other things being equal of course).
    Let's not lay blame at my guitar technique. It's not a problem. 1.5 years, well long enough to know what fits and what doesn't. The problem, if you will, is standardization and economies of scale in the guitar industry, just like everything else.

    One can get fitted for a high-end bicycle on a machine that measure every aspect of one's physique to get the proper fit. One goes to a tailor to get a suit properly cut. Why should a musical instrument not fit the player?

    Every single aspect of my saxophone, mouthpiece, etc. is properly set up to fit me. Sax mouthpieces are a really big deal in terms of interfacing with the player's mouth. I have TMJ, so I have to use a longer facing curve, a custom job. So, there's nothing new about trying to get a guitar to fit, for me.

    As Marcia Ball infamously sings, it's about having the "right tool for the job."

  12. #61

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    this guy has big hands too or a small guitar


    or Scott T.


    S

  13. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saxophone Tall
    Nice to hear from another "tall guy"! You're actually an inch taller than I am.

    My video is just to show sizing, not to show that that is how I play. Do your fingers slide between the strings, or do you have to push them apart to put your finger thought the "string plane"?

    Yes, everything costs more, but once in a while... I went to buy a suit in LA a few years ago and ended up at Kosins in Beverly Hills, where all the NBA cats shop. I got a $2000 suit some NBA cat decided he didn't want, for the price of tailoring! They were going to through it away!

    A "standard" guitar? Forget it! The first one I bought was a $500 Kort Joe Beck (amazing guitar!) that feels like a piccolo. It goes to sale soon.

    Also forget putting my thumb on the back of the neck. My thumb would have to be about 1/2 it's length. It's just not possible. If I curl it under thought, I can do it.

    The second guitar I bought was "Big Lou" 335 clone. It needed a complete set-up (expensive here in LA) to be playable. 2" nut, 2" @ RH (not enough, I want 60+ mm there). It's not a great guitar, but it's OK. I see their "Aspen" acoustic. Still no RH string spread.

    I talked to Lou. Defense contractor with $$$. Will talk your ear off. Fascinating cat!

    Thanks for your input, Stephen!

    - Jeff
    I don’t push my fingers through the strings. I pluck them with the nail. RH spacing has never bothered me.

    Thanks for the feedback on Lou‘s guitars. I suspected that. Still while I adjusted my technique to the instrument, I might still get a wider neck from him some day.


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  14. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saxophone Tall
    Heck, I "can" date a 4'11" chick (and I have), but why, when 6' chicks exist?
    Well, that one's easy: more place for you in the bed...

  15. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saxophone Tall
    Well, there's a lot more to saxophone technique than what you suggest, but that's another story. Same with piano. Most piano players would KILL for my hands; they are perfect for piano.

    My hands are lightning fast always have been. Some folks here are not understanding my point, but that's OK. I was 6' 3" when I was about 15, and I wore a size 13 shoe then, too. But I can't wear a size 13 shoe today (16 now), nor the clothes that I wore back then.

    I have a nice 1987 Schwinn Tempo racing bike that's ideally sized for a 6'4" guy. I "can" ride it but .. it hurts after about an hour. I "can" wear a size 15 shoe, but I'll get blisters. I "can" play golf with standard size clubs, but I play much better with ones that fit me (which are a whopping 7" longer than standard). I "can" cram into a normal car, but I have a van instead, which is actually comfortable for me. And I "can" play a smaller guitar, but why do so if something that actually fits properly can be had? Hardly anything fits me "off the shelf." Why would guitar be the one thing in my life that fits "as is"?

    Heck, I "can" date a 4'11" chick (and I have), but why, when 6' chicks exist? (all other things being equal of course).
    Let's not lay blame at my guitar technique. It's not a problem. 1.5 years, well long enough to know what fits and what doesn't. The problem, if you will, is standardization and economies of scale in the guitar industry, just like everything else.

    One can get fitted for a high-end bicycle on a machine that measure every aspect of one's physique to get the proper fit. One goes to a tailor to get a suit properly cut. Why should a musical instrument not fit the player?

    Every single aspect of my saxophone, mouthpiece, etc. is properly set up to fit me. Sax mouthpieces are a really big deal in terms of interfacing with the player's mouth. I have TMJ, so I have to use a longer facing curve, a custom job. So, there's nothing new about trying to get a guitar to fit, for me.

    As Marcia Ball infamously sings, it's about having the "right tool for the job."
    I took sax in college as a second instrument so I understand there is much more to it than I quickly described. The point was you don't have to fit your fingers into frets of varying space, varying chord shapes, work with different scale lengths etc like you do on a guitar. Sax hands are mostly static by comparison to what a guitarist is doing.

    Your answer, playing 1.5 years, tells me kind of what I suspected. Your technique isn't yet developed. Even if you play 8 hours a day you are a long way out from what you will become. I have quick hands too, it doesn't mean it automatically transfers to a guitar situation. You are looking for mechanical advantages but those actually offer minimal improvements once you have developed your technique. Speed and precision take a long time to develop on the guitar. I get that you want an instrument that fits you. I play an ES style guitar and it looks small.

    You want a guitar that fits you but reality is even an 18" archtop is going to look like a toy on you. Yes, you want a wider neck, understandable, I get it. However, my suggestion is to continue practicing a lot for a couple more years before you drop big money on something custom fit to what you currently think is your preference, because the truth is, you don't really know yet.

    As I said, I played sax as a side instrument for about two years. I had no clue what kind of mouthpiece and reed I should settle on, let alone what horn I would purchase if I had gone all it on it. I hadn't spent enough time with a horn to make a real informed decision. I was green. No offense, but with the guitar so are you. I got twenty years into guitar and shifted gears completely on what guitar I was playing and amp I was using. But, it's your money. Just some friendly advice...sometimes we think we have certain instrument needs only to later find out that we were making more of it than it really needed to be. I wish I had all the money back on guitar stuff I ultimately found out I didn't need at all, I'd have a big pocket full of cash, lol. You're still likely finding your guitar voice, so at least keep that in mind. Regardless, best of fortunes on all your musical endeavors and may you reach all your guitar goals.

  16. #65

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    Large guitars do exist.

    Is It Possible To Widen An Existing Fretboard / Replace Fretboard With A Wider One?-c897729e-739b-4bdb-8218-c88df6498189-jpeg

  17. #66

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    To continue Dawgbone's last comment: look at left-handed players. How many instruments beside the guitar exist in "lefty" versions? There are probably more left-handed players than players who're too big for their instrument of choice and yet they learn to play "like everyone else". I'm not aware that this puts them in an unfavourable position while I know all too well what happens if you force them to write right-handed for instance.

  18. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by SOLR
    this guy has big hands too or a small guitar


    or Scott T.


    S
    They are both playing classical guitars with 2" nuts, which fit me fine.
    The question is not "should I get a wide neck guitar." Rather, it's "how to get one."

  19. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by RJVB
    To continue Dawgbone's last comment: look at left-handed players. How many instruments beside the guitar exist in "lefty" versions? There are probably more left-handed players than players who're too big for their instrument of choice and yet they learn to play "like everyone else". I'm not aware that this puts them in an unfavourable position while I know all too well what happens if you force them to write right-handed for instance.
    I was surprised to learn that McCoy Tyner (with his insanely fast right hand work) was .. left handed. Although that could explain his powerful left hand!

  20. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by RJVB
    You mean height between top of frets and bottom of strings, aka action? It's normal that this is heigher on a classical, and it would work exactly the same with the strings I suggested you try because they have comparably low tension. (That means they can vibrate with a bigger excursion and thus need that extra height to prevent fret buzz.)



    Classicals with a radiussed fretboard do exist but I don't see why you would need that for playing jazz chords. Classical music may not be "thought in" the complex (if not esoteric) chords jazz is but that doesn't mean you never have to put your fingers in comparably complicated positions. Also, if you talk with classical pros about playing classical music on acoustic steel-strung guitar there will always be a moment where it is pointed out that they may not be playing bar chords all the time (or with anything but the index finger) but it is very common that a bar chord has to be maintained for measure(s) while the other fingers continue to do their little dance. I'm currently struggling with a few such fragments in otherwise comparatively easy pieces by Llobet and Barrios.



    AFAIK he'll build anything if he has sufficiently detailed plans and/or understanding of the goal. Your goal isn't difficult: you want a neck (with a neck profile of your choice) that matches a fingerboard of a given width at the 12th, 14th and/or 19th (or whatever) fret. No rocket science here. You could also ask him to build a classical neck with a given nutwidth and radius.
    Thank you. His website is, shall we say, rather "1980s"? He doesn't mention any of this. OF course I don't have guitar plans like some other might.

    Don't I want a low action for Jazz chords? The way the Seagull is set-up is great. I just find myself wanting to pull the strings out to where they should be (for me).

  21. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    Large guitars do exist.

    Is It Possible To Widen An Existing Fretboard / Replace Fretboard With A Wider One?-c897729e-739b-4bdb-8218-c88df6498189-jpeg
    That's more like it!

  22. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by DawgBone
    I took sax in college as a second instrument so I understand there is much more to it than I quickly described. The point was you don't have to fit your fingers into frets of varying space, varying chord shapes, work with different scale lengths etc like you do on a guitar. Sax hands are mostly static by comparison to what a guitarist is doing.

    Your answer, playing 1.5 years, tells me kind of what I suspected. Your technique isn't yet developed. Even if you play 8 hours a day you are a long way out from what you will become. I have quick hands too, it doesn't mean it automatically transfers to a guitar situation. You are looking for mechanical advantages but those actually offer minimal improvements once you have developed your technique. Speed and precision take a long time to develop on the guitar. I get that you want an instrument that fits you. I play an ES style guitar and it looks small.

    You want a guitar that fits you but reality is even an 18" archtop is going to look like a toy on you. Yes, you want a wider neck, understandable, I get it. However, my suggestion is to continue practicing a lot for a couple more years before you drop big money on something custom fit to what you currently think is your preference, because the truth is, you don't really know yet.

    As I said, I played sax as a side instrument for about two years. I had no clue what kind of mouthpiece and reed I should settle on, let alone what horn I would purchase if I had gone all it on it. I hadn't spent enough time with a horn to make a real informed decision. I was green. No offense, but with the guitar so are you. I got twenty years into guitar and shifted gears completely on what guitar I was playing and amp I was using. But, it's your money. Just some friendly advice...sometimes we think we have certain instrument needs only to later find out that we were making more of it than it really needed to be. I wish I had all the money back on guitar stuff I ultimately found out I didn't need at all, I'd have a big pocket full of cash, lol. You're still likely finding your guitar voice, so at least keep that in mind. Regardless, best of fortunes on all your musical endeavors and may you reach all your guitar goals.
    Thank you. A lot of saxophone players have several dozen mouthpieces and go through "phases." Actually, I'm narrowing down the "Goldilocks" string spacing and nut size. No, I would not drop $10,000 on a Luthier-made guitar at this point. But there is no other way than to experiment with various sizes to determine the right one. A grand or two here or there isn't horrible. And all the practice in the world isn't going to make a too-small fretboard fit, be comfortable, or not damage my hands (which I take precious care of!).

    The "Big Lou" informed me that a 2" nut is a good size for me. But also that 2" at the RH is too small for me.

    On saxophone, I watched Phil Woods from two feet away and .. his hands did not appear to move. AT ALL! Seven nights in a row, front seat, Baker's Keyboard Lounge (Detroit). 1970s.

    And I tried to copy Phil's hand position. Which would give anybody carpel tunnel. My hands are not built like Phil's. It was only when I "gave in" to the size of my hands and how to place them on my horn that I saw progress. This was in 1975 or so. I subsequently practiced 15 hours a day.

    James Carter (in the photo) uses Phil's hand position. And he has insane technique, as good (or better) than anybody in the business. I (standing next to him and looking like an under-dressed dork in comparison) have my fingers in a weird position (just the way the photo came out). James looks taller than me here, but he's about 6'1" to my 6'6".

    But my sax technique is as fast as James' is. I don't triple tongue like him though; nobody does. Not even Wynton.

    One has to do what works for them. And I was told that I actually outplayed James that day, which, given the pianist, was the right time to do it!Is It Possible To Widen An Existing Fretboard / Replace Fretboard With A Wider One?-brubeck-carter-newton-3-jpg

  23. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saxophone Tall
    Don't I want a low action for Jazz chords?
    For steel strings with the usual tension of a usual fingerstyle gauge (11s or 12s): sure - and not just for jazz chords. For strings with the tension of classical strings: I don't see why.

    There are enough people playing jazz on classical guitars AFAIK, so it's not like that cannot be done.

    In fact, back when I started I discussed (on a different forum) my idea to have a resonator converted to nylon strings and use that. One of the comments I got was that this was an excellent idea because nylon strings force you to use a better (not my words; he probably meant more deliberate/precise) technique.

    You already have a classical guitar. Trying a set of the strings in question will cost you $15-20 (haven't checked their price) and the time it takes to change the strings (the trebles at least have ball-ends so no need even to fumble with the tie-block).

  24. #73

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    Sorry if this has been brought up before, but this thread is too long for me to read every post. Have you considered a baritone guitar? I own two, a steel-string from Furch and an electric from Gretsch. I've had the Furch for several years but the Gretsch is fairly new. I'm average size and have rather small hands. On the Furch, most of the "normal" chords for a normal six-string are simply not playable for me. I usually play it more like a bass with mostly single-note lines. On the Gretsch, I can play chords more easily, but it's not really intended to be used that way, at least not for people with small-to-medium-sized hands. For you, it might work on both instruments and I bet it would be cheaper than having a standard guitar modified and more likely to lead to satisfactory results, in my opinion.

    The scale length is noticeably longer than for a standard guitar, however, I haven't measured it on either guitar. Nor have I measured the width of the nut. However, I believe that both baritones have narrower nuts than my standard-sized classical guitar, which is the instrument I play the most.

    The range goes pretty high on both. The high string is B. I don't recall off-hand how many frets they have, but I think the Gretsch has at least nineteen, if not more. It has quickly become one of my favorite instruments to play and the Furch is one of the best quality instruments I have. Possibly worth a try.

    I noticed you asked about low action for playing jazz. In my opinion, it's not necessary. My preference for the action on any guitar-like instrument (except lap- or pedal-steel, of course) and for any kind of music is high enough to avoid fret buzz as much as possible, without negatively affecting the intonation too much. Like the old saying for engineering of any kind: "As much as necessary, as little as possible".

    Hope this helps.

  25. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saxophone Tall
    They are both playing classical guitars with 2" nuts, which fit me fine.
    The question is not "should I get a wide neck guitar." Rather, it's "how to get one."
    Near my home (Montreal) there is a large Guitar Co-op....8-9 builders share a workshop...some are renowned builders others not yet. There are a lot of competent less known luthiers in the city. Sounds like a neat challenge. Perhaps you could find something similar in your area?

    S
    Last edited by SOLR; 12-31-2022 at 08:29 PM.

  26. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saxophone Tall
    Thank you. A lot of saxophone players have several dozen mouthpieces and go through "phases." Actually, I'm narrowing down the "Goldilocks" string spacing and nut size. No, I would not drop $10,000 on a Luthier-made guitar at this point. But there is no other way than to experiment with various sizes to determine the right one. A grand or two here or there isn't horrible. And all the practice in the world isn't going to make a too-small fretboard fit, be comfortable, or not damage my hands (which I take precious care of!).

    The "Big Lou" informed me that a 2" nut is a good size for me. But also that 2" at the RH is too small for me.

    On saxophone, I watched Phil Woods from two feet away and .. his hands did not appear to move. AT ALL! Seven nights in a row, front seat, Baker's Keyboard Lounge (Detroit). 1970s.

    And I tried to copy Phil's hand position. Which would give anybody carpel tunnel. My hands are not built like Phil's. It was only when I "gave in" to the size of my hands and how to place them on my horn that I saw progress. This was in 1975 or so. I subsequently practiced 15 hours a day.

    James Carter (in the photo) uses Phil's hand position. And he has insane technique, as good (or better) than anybody in the business. I (standing next to him and looking like an under-dressed dork in comparison) have my fingers in a weird position (just the way the photo came out). James looks taller than me here, but he's about 6'1" to my 6'6".

    But my sax technique is as fast as James' is. I don't triple tongue like him though; nobody does. Not even Wynton.

    One has to do what works for them. And I was told that I actually outplayed James that day, which, given the pianist, was the right time to do it!Is It Possible To Widen An Existing Fretboard / Replace Fretboard With A Wider One?-brubeck-carter-newton-3-jpg
    Might want to have a look at Warmoth guitars if a solid or chambered body guitar is acceptable for the time being. I can vouch for their quality, really nice stuff better than most Fenders really, though you might need a luthier for final fret level, assembly, and wiring. I ordered a AAA flamed maple strat neck and it required no leveling, a lot of it is really good right off the bat. There is a longer wait time on fancier stuff. They offer a 1 7/8 superwide neck (if that would suffice) and you can get a chambered tele body. The options list for their stuff is enormous so you can really order it to your preferred specs. Strung with flatwounds you might have a lifetime keeper even if you wind up with that 10k archtop later.

    My son is/was a tenor player so I know the mouthpiece routine a bit and the crazy cost of horns. They want seriously big money for some of those mouthpieces. I drilled him on scales and such until he surpassed me in theory knowledge. I taught him growling into his horn for blues and soul stuff. He can sight read at a very high level. He was able to place very high in state level competitions here in TX but ultimately is pursuing a different career path after seeing my own struggles with a music career. Not easy for any player of any instrument at any skill level anywhere in the world.