The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    Awhile ago I purchased a Godin 5th Ave Kingpin after reading rave reviews all over the internet for it. It never felt "great" to me though and after doing a bit more researching (and self-analysis) I think it's the tiny frets and (perhaps) ultra flat radius (16")

    I've considered selling it and getting an Eastman or Ibanez but I otherwise like the guitar and would like to make it work.

    I've decided to re-fret it with some Jescar 47104's but am curious if it is realistic to re-radius the fretboard (to 12") while I'm at it.

    Anyone been down this crazy path? Is just block-sanding a new radius into the fretboard enough or do I need to do something with the bridge and nut as well?

    Sure, it'd be easier to just sell and buy another but now I'm intrigued at the prospect of making it to my liking.
    Last edited by cbgrey; 12-17-2022 at 09:53 AM. Reason: Spelling

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  3. #2

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    No. It'd be easier to change a spouse with a borderline personality disorder.

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy blue note
    No. It'd be easier to change a spouse with a borderline personality disorder.
    LOL. Well, that certainly puts it in context.

  5. #4

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    Bearing in mind that I am not a luthier or guitar tech, where as JBN above is, it seems like you would have to lose a lot of fretboard at the edges to re-radius from 16 to 12 inches. Then you would need to get a new nut or extensively rework the one that's there, as well as a new bridge top.

    Larger frets will significantly change the feel of the neck, however. That might be enough.

    Personally, for whatever reason, I have never been that sensitive to fretboard radius. I have guitars with flat boards, 9 1/2", 12", 10–14" compound radii, etc., and after a few seconds they both feel the same. Same thing with nut width; I have guitars with anywhere from 1 5/8" to 2" nuts and after a few minutes' adjustment, it's not much noticeable.

  6. #5

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    I had the same problem with a Godin Jazz model that I picked up through Amazon at like 60% off MSRP during a year end inventory sell off. Sucker had a dead flat fret board. I ended up trading it for a Gibson ES-390 which has a 12" radius fret board. Much better for me. I think that a good repair person should know what is possible. It could be a combination of slightly increasing the radius for both the fret board and the radius on taller frets and modifying the bridge. Funny that guitars are precision instruments but they don't always have to be precisely made to play well. In your case you might need precision on several fronts.

  7. #6
    I had a 5th Avenue cross my bench a while back (I consider myself a luthier) and I would say that you can make the radius smaller but it will not be trivial. Aside from pulling the frets and sanding to whatever radius you want (I'm guessing 12 inch) you will have to deepen the frets slots . I make a little tool out of a piece of the fretwire that I'm going to use to make sure the slots are deep enough and clean, I can show you if you decide to do it. The one I saw did not have a bound fretboard so that is not a problem. Radius your fretwire and install the frets, level and dress. You will need to make a net nut and either find a floating 12 inch bridge (they are available) or change the top radius on yours.

    Really not that bad a modification providing you board isn't bound - it it is it gets a whole lot harder.

    Feasible to re-radius my Godin fretboard?-img_4603-jpg

  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freeman Keller
    Really not that bad a modification providing you board isn't bound - it it is it gets a whole lot harder.
    I raise my glass to you. I think of refret jobs and customers asking for stainless frets, leveling, crowning and polishing, dressing the ends and I think "That's a lot of trouble."
    That's why they have that adage "Measure twice, cut once" but in this case, it's Measure once, cut once, put it back where it was five steps ago, cut it again, fix it up so it's better than new and charge a good part of what another new one may have run.
    How much would this run were it to be done in your shop, if I might ask?

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy blue note
    I raise my glass to you. I think of refret jobs and customers asking for stainless frets, leveling, crowning and polishing, dressing the ends and I think "That's a lot of trouble."
    That's why they have that adage "Measure twice, cut once" but in this case, it's Measure once, cut once, put it back where it was five steps ago, cut it again, fix it up so it's better than new and charge a good part of what another new one may have run.
    How much would this run were it to be done in your shop, if I might ask?
    If the OP was going to do a refret anyway this just adds a little work. Depending on the board I'll almost always go over it with radiused sanding blocks, this just takes a bit more wood off the edges. I always check the depth of the slots, without binding its pretty easy to deepen them to fit the wire. Stainless is a bit harder to install but I don't think its as bad as some make it out, ideally if the board is really well prepared there should be minimum leveling and crowning. A new nut is part of any refret unless we get real lucky (often the new frets are a couple of thousands higher than the old). Its either going to require a new bridge or a little work on the present one. Realistically there is a couple more hours than a basic refret,

  10. #9

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    Ah! Headslap, I missed the fact that the refret was in the works. Yup Freeman, right you are. That does change the balance of feasibility.

  11. #10

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    ...sounds a crazy project. Maybe when you jump into it also consider to modify the neck width too... and probably modding the scale lenght could bring some benefit. Unless you are 100% satisfied, enhance the deepness of the body, it could also help you live together with the intstrument :-)

  12. #11

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    I did this myself, reradiusing from (I think) a 7" radius to a 10" radius. It was also the first time I ever changed frets myself. I had to make a new nut and reradius the bridge, both of which I have done before.

    The Good: it turned out really well. The neck is much more playable to me. It was a lot of work but it was within my abilities as a non-luthier. I just needed fairly inexpensive hand tools. You don't have to buy expensive gadgets from Stew Mac.

    The Bad: it took months to do and often I felt like I was in over my head. It didn't matter how many youtube videos and guitar building books I read, I still had to figure a lot of it out myself. There was a lot of time spent just staring at it! It took a long time to just figure out what tools I needed, especially without breaking the bank. For me it was a Covid lockdown project so I had the time and patience. With me it's more: measure twenty times, cut once.

  13. #12

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    Making a rounder fretboard more flat is easier than the other way around.

    But anyway, try the new frets, that might be enough. I don't think radius is that big of a deal.

  14. #13

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    Would it make sense to remove the entire fretboard from the neck and replace it with a new one with the desired radius ?

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by va3ux
    Would it make sense to remove the entire fretboard from the neck and replace it with a new one with the desired radius ?
    A lot of measuring and precision. Godin’s have their own unique scale lengths.

  16. #15

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    Dummy question: is there a particular need for the radius of the frets to match the fretboard radius?

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by palindrome
    Dummy question: is there a particular need for the radius of the frets to match the fretboard radius?
    The seating of the frets in the fretboard, I guess

  18. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by palindrome
    Dummy question: is there a particular need for the radius of the frets to match the fretboard radius?
    I slightly over radius the frets, don't actually measure it but if I was fretting a 12 inch board the wire would probably be 14 or so. It helps hold the ends down and most of the necks I build have bound fretboards. I press frets, but usually give them a light tap with a hammer and I'm one of those folks who lightly glue them in. I expect anyone refretting one of my guitars to use a little heat when pulling the old ones.

  19. #18

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    Well, from what I gather, I guess it's easier to increase rather than decrease the radius of the frets (i.e. flatten them) relative to the board.


    I tend to prefer, say, a 9.5 or even 7.25 radius, and was wondering how this would feel against a flatter board.

    To what extent this might be a viable strategy to solve the OP's problem, I don't have the faintest inkling.

  20. #19

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    Anything short of a new fretboard would probably look and feel like a hack; and a new fretboard will probably cost as much as the guitar.

    Sell it and buy something you like better.

  21. #20

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    I actually did this and it worked. Redoing the radius of the board by sanding it is super simple. The hardest part is just the refret, followed by adjusting the nut and bridge to the radius. So if you can do a quality refret and build a nut, redoing the radius is inconsequential. Simply stick sandpaper on a radius block.