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  1. #1

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    I recently purchased a Epiphone Emperor Regent on Reverb and it arrived yesterday. It was listed as excellent and described as "near mint". Guitar is in sunburst finish and built in the Unsung factory in 2006. Today I gave it a thorough check through. It is truly near mint. Plays and looks fantastic with the best intonation of any guitar I ever owned. No fret sprout or high and buzzing frets anywhere. Pickup sounds good and no scratchiness in the pots with full control of tone and volume. Love it but there is an issue.

    The fretboard is lifting at the nut and finish is cracked just past the first fret. If you press on the fretboard the extremely small gap (maybe .001 inch measured) does close. The visible gap does not reach as far as the first fret. The gap is just near the nut. Never saw that before but have heard of it. Is this a problem that I should be overly concerned about? Is it possible to somehow get some glue under the fretboard and clamp it? Or will it be stable for years to come?

    I thought maybe someone could please give some insight.

    Thanks

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  3. #2

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    It should be possible to get some hot hide glue into the crack and clamp it up. You should have it done by a competent luthier, and certainly not try to fix it with Krazy Glue. It shouldn't be an expensive repair, unless you insist on the finish being redone. That gets expensive.

  4. #3

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    We blow TiteBond into small cracks like that with compressed air. But I'd take it to a luthier. And I think you should get it fixed.

  5. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by sgosnell
    You should have it done by a competent luthier, .
    That would be best but competent in my area would not be available.

  6. #5

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    Thanks. Didn't know if I could leave it be or not.

  7. #6

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    It shouldn't be too big a deal if it's a simple matter of not enough glue being applied when it was built. There are several effective methods that work well. Yes, have a luthier do it.
    Just to be complete, do check the finish on the neck just below the nut. If you see any finish cracks originating from that area, it would be my strong recommendation to send it back.
    Without getting into this debate again, in short, if the finish is clear, it points to inadequate glue at the time of assembly. If there is a finish crack, no matter how innocuous it may seem, it indicates that there was a shock to the neck and that fingerboard separation may be part of a larger issue.
    Do what you feel is good but I offer an experienced perspective and a hope that you're happy and have a long and musical relationship with whatever guitar you wind up with.

  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Michael
    I recently purchased a Epiphone Emperor Regent on Reverb and it arrived yesterday. It was listed as excellent and described as "near mint". Guitar is in sunburst finish and built in the Unsung factory in 2006. Today I gave it a thorough check through. It is truly near mint. Plays and looks fantastic with the best intonation of any guitar I ever owned. No fret sprout or high and buzzing frets anywhere. Pickup sounds good and no scratchiness in the pots with full control of tone and volume. Love it but there is an issue.

    The fretboard is lifting at the nut and finish is cracked just past the first fret. If you press on the fretboard the extremely small gap (maybe .001 inch measured) does close. The visible gap does not reach as far as the first fret. The gap is just near the nut. Never saw that before but have heard of it. Is this a problem that I should be overly concerned about? Is it possible to somehow get some glue under the fretboard and clamp it? Or will it be stable for years to come?

    I thought maybe someone could please give some insight.

    Thanks
    Any pics?

    S

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Michael

    The fretboard is lifting at the nut and finish is cracked just past the first fret. If you press on the fretboard the extremely small gap (maybe .001 inch measured) does close.

    Thanks

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy blue note
    It shouldn't be too big a deal if it's a simple matter of not enough glue being applied when it was built. There are several effective methods that work well. Yes, have a luthier do it.
    Just to be complete, do check the finish on the neck just below the nut. If you see any finish cracks originating from that area, it would be my strong recommendation to send it back.

    Clue or glue??

    S

  10. #9

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    Lifting fretboard-fretlift-jpg

  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Michael
    Lifting fretboard-fretlift-jpg
    EXACTLY what I was imagining in my (worst case) imagination. Send it back. That's not a lifting fingerboard, that's a broken neck. Somebody dropped the guitar at some time, imparted a lateral schock to the neck, strong enough to split a glue line, wood fibres and finish in the process. This is the kind of loss of integrity that was never meant to be.
    Some will tell you that you can glue this. As a luthier, seasoned tech, QC inspector for a major guitar manufacturer and guitar owner, this guitar has the real potential to be poison. It's new. You DON'T want to inherit this guitar's problems...not when it comes to a headstock break.

    But do what you want. That's just my emphatic recommendation.
    Ouch!

    PS I've seen this before. I know what I'm talking about.

  12. #11

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    Yeah, I agree. That's shock damage.

  13. #12

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    Any chance that this happened during transport?

    And to put this into context: what would the send-it-back'ers do if one of their guitars broke or got a beginning of a break at that location?

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by RJVB
    Any chance that this happened during transport?

    And to put this into context: what would the send-it-back'ers do if one of their guitars broke or got a beginning of a break at that location?
    I'd hope that this had been done within a few days at the most. Fresh break.
    I'd jig the guitar up, carefully apply the same directional force that created the break (there are ways this might be surmised) and when it opened up enough, JUST enough, I'd try to remove any loose broken grain. I'd then take tite-bond that I had adjusted the viscosity for maximum penetration, use a syringe injector and get it in deep. Move the pieces a little to get the glue to move and flow, and then clamp it.
    That's if it were mine and I had no choice. If it were a split more than an inch or so, depending on the grain orientation, might consider a splint or inlay inset piece.
    Know that this process is dicey. I can be done absolutely properly but for those who say "Glue is stronger than the wood", I might remind them that on this join, there is short grain break too. There is no assurance that it's going to stay. A good chance if done well, but no guarantee.
    When I worked on the inspection/repair line at Ibanez, the ones I dealt with were 100% done in transport, these breaks didn't go the 'seconds' room for repair or markdown clearance, they were one of the criteria for the strip down and destruction process. Those broken guitars were considered too high risk to be put into the public's hands under any circumstances.
    I've done many repairs on these type of breaks with close to a 90% success but I'm more meticulous than most and I always let it be known that nothing ever beats a fresh join of a new guitar.

  15. #14

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    I have contacted the seller but he is kicking up a fuss. Based on what I read on reverb policy, I had to formally request refund through reverb before they will step in. That step has just been completed.

    My first message to seller was I left positive feedback but he should review how to pack. Wait and see now.

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy blue note
    If it were a split more than an inch or so, depending on the grain orientation, might consider a splint or inlay inset piece.
    Not a luthier, but I'd put in a splint or brace as a barrier for any kind of beginning split in a piece that's under enough tension that that split is likely to worm its way forward. Seems common-sensical; better safe than sorry.

    I'm guessing you'd be taking the fretboard off anyway, to assess the actual extent of the damage?

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by RJVB
    Not a luthier, but I'd put in a splint or brace as a barrier for any kind of beginning split in a piece that's under enough tension that that split is likely to worm its way forward. Seems common-sensical; better safe than sorry.

    I'm guessing you'd be taking the fretboard off anyway, to assess the actual extent of the damage?
    Not to cross you on this statement, but please don't exacerbate the situation or create any more damage trying to prove there's damage.
    String tension off.
    Put the guitar in the case.
    Document copiously and keep a record of all handling of the instrument.
    Removing the fretboard involves heat, force and a lot of work outside of anything involved in a declaration of transit damage and a refund.
    This kind of damage can occur even in a packed box when the case is dropped flat, the guitar slams against the inside of the case, the headstock hits the inside of the case leveraged by the body of the instrument.
    I hope you took many photos of the packing job.

    Any other attempts to "repair" or "look for proof" of damage can result in a claim that you caused damage beyond anything that was present at the time it was unpacked.

    Document it. File a full claim. Get a luthier's certified opinion. Let the guitar rest. Don't pick at the scab. The rest is out of your hands for not.
    My two cents.

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy blue note
    Not to cross you on this statement, but please don't exacerbate the situation or create any more damage trying to prove there's damage.
    Not my intention! Evidently repair attempts are not in order if returning the instrument is an option!

  19. #18

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    As expected, seller has denied refund. Now going through Reverb. I'm not trying to burn the guy but why should I take the hit for his poor packing?

    Just to be clear. My first contact after receiving item and leaving positive feedback is when I mentioned he should review how to pack. That was before I discovered the issue. At that time it was just advice for the future.

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Michael
    As expected, seller has denied refund. Now going through Reverb. I'm not trying to burn the guy but why should I take the hit for his poor packing?

    Just to be clear. My first contact after receiving item and leaving positive feedback is when I mentioned he should review how to pack. That was before I discovered the issue. At that time it was just advice for the future.
    Oh I'm so sad. I hate it when you have to pay the price for someone else's refusal to be responsible. Send Reverb the photos, the evidence that the neck/fingerboard are unsound, the evidence that all the responsibility for an avoidable situation lies with the seller and perhaps if he denies that he was remiss in packing it properly, the claim that he sold you damaged goods and should have mentioned it in the description (Ex: This guitar has a broken neck, guitar is sold AS IS).
    Good luck.

  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy blue note
    perhaps if he denies that he was remiss in packing it properly, the claim that he sold you damaged goods and should have mentioned it in the description (Ex: This guitar has a broken neck, guitar is sold AS IS).
    Good luck.
    I suppose you mean that he should claim that either the insufficient packaging is the cause here or the issue existed before the sale.

    I hope that works out for the OP, because there is no way to prove that the seller knew about the issue. Or he might have noticed the finish blemish but not the lifting fretboard. It could even be that he himself got the instrument that way.
    This is akin to potentially dangerous vices cachés (hidden vices) that can lurk somewhere in vehicles. Selling a vehicle with hidden vices is usually legally punishable here in France (possibly Europe) but I am quite certain private sellers are not held accountable for it because they are not supposed to have the knowledge/experience to identify them *).
    I hope for the OP that this is not the case in the seller's jurisdiction!

    *) luckily for me! When I sold my Guzzi I hardly ridden it for 2 years or so, and not given much thought about the tyres which had very low mileage (and I was a gentle rider). There was no particular sign over deterioration so the experienced rider who bought the bike decided to ride her home over some 250km of back roads. We contacted me the day after telling me how he had found a long split right along the centreline of the front tyre, right down to the radial mesh. I might not have been legally responsible if he had had an accident but I sure would have felt that way!

  22. #21

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    The saga has a resolution. After some battle, Reverb is going to take possession of the guitar and refund my money. I assume they resell them. It would have been nice if the seller stepped up and did the right thing.

  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Michael
    The saga has a resolution. After some battle, Reverb is going to take possession of the guitar and refund my money. I assume they resell them. It would have been nice if the seller stepped up and did the right thing.
    I've been watching for the outcome on this one. Good for Reverb; it is a good move for their reputation and it's the right thing to do. After they get it back, they'll see with a shadow of a doubt that they have in their hands damaged goods. I don't think that seller will be in their good graces if they have to eat the profits on this one.
    Hope you get something that lasts you a lifetime on your next purchase. Make music. Don't worry about it.
    Have a good new year.

  24. #23

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    I am the seller of the instrument referenced here...
    I'm glad this issue has been resolved.....
    However, let me make you aware of the issues that you may not be aware of.

    1- The guitar absolutely had no damage when I shipped it.
    2- I completely empathize with the buyer and understand his dissapointment.
    3- I take my reputation as an honest seller very seriously.

    Here is the central issue....

    Reverb has a shit policy for sellers.
    They insist on having the seller refund in full even though the damage was probably done during transport.
    Now, here's the rub... They make no guarantees that they will compensate the seller for the damage...It is entirely at their discretion.
    Second, regardless...they will not refund their seller fees.

    Given that I paid to have the shipment guaranteed through their system....I found that unnacceptable.
    I insisted that they compensate the buyer under their policy.
    It took a while and having to escalate the issue through their horrible system.... BTW they have no phone numbers and can only be contacted through their general email.
    All and all...this was an equally terrible experience for me...

    My goal was to provide an excellent instrument at a more than reasonable price...but...I could not bear taking a substantial loss through no fault of my own.
    I am now questioning whether I will continue to do business on Reverb. After reviewing their BBB complaints, it seems I am not alone in this opinion.

    I wish you all well and a Happy Musical New Year !!!
    Last edited by peterlaca; 01-03-2023 at 07:27 PM.

  25. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by peterlaca
    I am the seller of the instrument referenced here...
    I'm glad this issue has been resolved.....

    ...I am now questioning whether I will continue to do business on Reverb.
    Thanks for weighing in, it puts a human face on the whole unfortunate incident. And it's a cautionary tale for others, myself included, when shipping a guitar.
    I've been in the business a long time and have seen a lot of packing jobs. The ones that arrive safely are the ones packed in annoyingly 'over packed' ways.
    There might be some utility in a thread on professionally packed guitars. The area of the headstock AND the body MUST be absolutely immobile if you want to assure safe delivery beyond the reaches of Luck and a Prayer. I wrap, wedge, pad and bubble INSIDE the case, remove string tension, cradle the neck/headstock, bubble and peanut the case immobile -bubble at both ends-peanuts all around, and then Double box with a layer of peanuts between boxes. Tension off, paper around strings, floating bridges packed separately, all photographed before. Even so, I've had a guitar run through by UPS and no, they never compensated me (Their small print is the means with which they wiggle out).

    Just curious: What delivery service did you use? I have had terrible luck with UPS (brown truck) with a high incidence of evidence of abuse. I use FedEx and so far I've had good luck.

  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy blue note
    Just curious: What delivery service did you use? I have had terrible luck with UPS (brown truck) with a high incidence of evidence of abuse. I use FedEx and so far I've had good luck.
    On a lighter note ... for a while I was under the impression that using Conus (or CONUS) was the way to ship guitars safely