The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    I believe that the clearance from the top of the strings to the top of the 1st fret should be that you should be able to slide a thin piece of paper between the two. I have also heard that if you leave a larger gap—say approx. 2mm that would add more volume& tone to an acoustic guitar. Your views on this?

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  3. #2

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    a regular piece of paper for the D - and G strings only, a thin cardboard ( OCB spliff paper cover ... ) for the A and B strings

    and a ~1 mm gap for the two E-strings.

    this is what I learned on the internet: you want the radius of the strings to be slightly bigger than the radius from the 1st. fret.

    to obtain the playing feel that Gibson is famous for.


    tone is sacrificed, when the strings are too low towards the higher frets.

    a guitar with a 2mm gap between the first fret and the strings does not play nice at all, but feels stiff and does not play

    it tune very well, especially on the first frets, as the strings have to be streched to touch the frets.


    keep the nut slots in an angle, repair slots that have been cut too deep with super-glue and some bone dust,

    works like a charm.


  4. #3

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    I don't play open strings often, so I don't worry about different heights for different strings. I try for about the same distance between the bottom, not top of each string to the first fret as the distance at the second fret, when fretted at the first. All the rest should be about the same, assuming the frets are level. The string angle will gradually get slightly steeper as you get nearer the bridge, but not all that much. So I just fret at the first fret, check the distance at the second, and try for that same distance at the first fret.

  5. #4

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    That's too low imo, assuming you're talking about without fretting somewhere, which I am. It will buzz if you hit the string hard. I got pretty tech with it when I was perfecting my setups and I broke it down to some pretty easy measurements. I got feeler gauges and I found that staggered .016"-.020" e-E feels low and is easy to play, but won't buzz. While .018"-.022" e-E gives you more to dig into if you like that but won't press the notes sharp. I guarantee those numbers will work for you if you hit them.

  6. #5

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    Playing with an extremely low action, I want the lowest possible string height coming off the nut. I file the nut slots so there's a bare minimum of deflection pressing over the first fret while holding the string down between the 2nd & 3rd frets (which produces a straight line from the nut to the 2nd fret.) By bare minimum I mean scarcely perceptible. This works perfectly for me. It does assume the frets are properly leveled.

    Danny W.

  7. #6

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    The nut slot should be the same height as the frets, IMO. Higher, and the action and intonation are adversely affected. But if you want high nut slots on your guitar, that's up to you.

  8. #7

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    As low as possible.

  9. #8
    Many thanks guys for all your usfull info string my question on string height.

    Just to mention I play both acoustic and electric guitar. The acoustic style I play is Gypsy Jazz / Eddie Lang / Freddie Green style. So I need a high action ‘to cut through’ whoever I play with.

    Electric guitar the pickup’s do the work. So another question is:
    Acoustic guitar vs Electric guitar string set up of string height at nut? Two different string height set up’s?

  10. #9

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    no, if you play a happy and lively style on the electric guitar.

    it is the same instrument.

  11. #10

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    Most guitars have a nut saddle but there are also guitars with the so-called zero fret.
    My Frameworks modern classic has zero fret instead of nut problems.

  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by kris
    Most guitars have a nut saddle but there are also guitars with the so-called zero fret.
    My Frameworks modern classic has zero fret instead of nut problems.
    Or in other words:

    Quote Originally Posted by sgosnell
    The nut slot should be the same height as the frets, IMO.
    Factory guitars tend to come with a too high action at the nut; my Seagull and Loar both did. Curiously I only noticed that as fatigue and problems playing barré chords down low on the Seagull; on the Loar it cause audible sharpness on the 1st 5 frets (on the A and B strings).

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by kris
    Most guitars have a nut saddle but there are also guitars with the so-called zero fret.
    My Frameworks modern classic has zero fret instead of nut problems.
    Makes it hard to use a compensated nut though.

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by j4zz
    Makes it hard to use a compensated nut though.
    But my Framework tunes perfectly on every fret.

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by swingtoneman
    Many thanks guys for all your usfull info string my question on string height.

    Just to mention I play both acoustic and electric guitar. The acoustic style I play is Gypsy Jazz / Eddie Lang / Freddie Green style. So I need a high action ‘to cut through’ whoever I play with.

    Electric guitar the pickup’s do the work. So another question is:
    Acoustic guitar vs Electric guitar string set up of string height at nut? Two different string height set up’s?
    I don't think that action higher at the 1st fret will necessarily make your guitar louder. If it is set perfect at the 1st fret which can vary a marginally amount among players, then simply raising the action with the bridge is all that is need to get more volume. To me setting up a guitar begins with the action at the nut. From the point you do everything else to get things squared and to your needs. Higher action at the 1st fret combined with a bit more relief can produce some intonation errors and make the guitar not fun to play. Low action at the first fret allows the most consistent way to make adjustments depending on your needs.

    I remember Martin Taylor saying he like his guitars to have a bit more relief than other players because of the way he dug in on the fingerboard. That makes sense but he still was not digging in against problems in the first position. Of course you can also get moew volume by going with different kinds of strings and a bigger gauge set. Imagine a low action Gibson L5 with maybe a .14-58 set of bronze strings. If the guitar has a lively top it will produce big sound. I would rather do that and fight chords in 1st position for clean sounding ringging.

  16. #15

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    Having higher nut action cannot help with playing chords, because that action only affects open strings. As soon as you fret any string, the action at the nut has no effect other than on intonation. The only way to alter action on any fretted string is by raising the bridge. High action at the nut only makes the guitar harder to play and intonate. It does not help anything in any way, that I can conceive of. Neck relief does alter action on fretted strings, making it higher near the middle of the neck, lower at the ends of the fretboard. I don't think much relief helps anything, but different players like different amounts. But relief is independent of nut height, other than that changing relief can change the height of the strings at the first fret. Thus, it's essential to get the desired relief before finishing the nut slots. If you get the desired string height and then tighten the truss rod, you will have less string height, and possibly buzz at the first fret.

  17. #16

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    ^^ buzz "at the first fret", as in buzz, that is the result from a fret slot, that has been cut too low,

    will hide its origin and will sound like fret buzz, that is coming from the bridge.


    don't ask how I know that.



    next to all of the guitars, that I have bought, needed a fret slot set-up ... guitars, that were many decades old when purchased,

    had to live without a proper set-up for all their lives ... until they meet me.


    people that have bought guitars from me, have explicitly commented on how nice these play.

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by sgosnell
    The nut slot should be the same height as the frets, IMO. Higher, and the action and intonation are adversely affected. But if you want high nut slots on your guitar, that's up to you.
    If the slot is exactly the same height as the first fret, wouldn't the string buzz against it? Doesn't it have to be at least a little bit higher?

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by John A.
    If the slot is exactly the same height as the first fret, wouldn't the string buzz against it? Doesn't it have to be at least a little bit higher?
    Could be the case if your action is too low for the string tension you're using.

  20. #19

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    No, the nut doesn't need to be higher, just as each fret doesn't need to be higher than each subsequent fret. The string rises to the bridge. All the frets are (ideally) the same height, so why would the nut need to be higher?

  21. #20

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    As low as possible, that‘s why nutjobs are for professionals. A rule of thumb is 0.10“ on the low E’ and 0.06“ on the high e‘ on electrics. If all frets are straight you‘ll achieve buzz-free perfect intonation and super comfortably playing on the first frets.

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by sgosnell
    No, the nut doesn't need to be higher, just as each fret doesn't need to be higher than each subsequent fret. The string rises to the bridge. All the frets are (ideally) the same height, so why would the nut need to be higher?
    Because between the nut and the first fret the string doesn't rise enough to give clearance over the the fret? If I'm understanding correctly (using what the internet tells me is the "rule of 18 (which is actually 17.817)), on a 24.75" scale with 4/64" action at the 12th fret, action above the 1st fret (if it's the same height as the nut) is about .007". That's enough to keep the string from buzzing? If you're saying it is (and I realize you have a lot of repair experience and know much more about this than I do), I believe you. But I'm a little surprised. If I'm understanding Stew-mac's guide to nut slots correctly, they seem to think the nut should be a .030" higher than the first fret.
    Last edited by John A.; 07-27-2022 at 12:54 PM.

  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by John A.
    Because between the nut and the first fret the string doesn't rise enough to give clearance over the the fret? If I'm understanding correctly (using what the internet tells me is the "rule of 18 (which is actually 17.817)), on a 24.75" scale with 4/64" action at the 12th fret, action above the 1st fret (if it's the same height as the nut) is about .007". That's enough to keep the string from buzzing? If you're saying it is (and I realize you have a lot of repair experience and know much more about this than I do), I believe you. But I'm a little surprised. If I'm understanding Stew-mac's guide to nut slots correctly, they seem to think the nut should be a .030" higher than the first fret.
    Well, I have been thinking about this, and if you adjust the truss rod for some slight set in the neck, that set is not even, it is non-existant where the neck joins the body and it gets more as you move towards the nut. This really helps the clearance of the first fret. So the difference might be whether people have a set in their neck, or adjust it flat. If flat, then there may be a need for the nut slot to be higher, if set, then maybe not.

  24. #23

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    I don't see why the nut slot should be higher than the first fret. The second fret certainly shouldn't be higher than the first fret, and there is no problem with buzzing on the second when fretting at the first, or at least there shouldn't be if the frets are all level. I don't agree with everything StewMac says on a number of subjects. I will say that having the nut slots the same height as the frets can cause problems in some cases, such as when the slots are cut with relief in the neck, and that relief is removed. You need to set the relief before dealing with the nut slots, because everything affects everything else. It's also possible to tighten the truss rod just a little too much, which induces some back bow, which is usually worst at the first few frets. This raises the first and maybe second fret so that it may be higher than the nut slots, by a tiny amount. Any back bow is unacceptable to me. I want my fretboard to be perfectly straight, no backbow and no relief, and that's a very narrow balance point. Most techs err on the side of caution, and put the nut slots higher, and also put some relief in the neck, because that keeps the need for occasional neck and action adjustments at bay. Unsatisfied customers who bring instruments back for more adjustment are expensive. I do mine for free, so I keep things closer to the balance point, and can adjust every day if necessary. I don't do work for profit, nor often for others. If I do work for my son or grandsons, I leave a little extra space, because I can't adjust theirs every day or week. I will also concede that playing with a heavy touch, and hitting the strings hard for acoustic rhythm volume, require higher action than i like. Higher nut slots and some relief prevent buzzes at the expense of poorer intonation and higher action, and the more relief the neck has, he higher the action has to be in the center to clear the higher frets when fretting near or above the 12th. It's all compromise of some sort.

  25. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by sgosnell
    I don't see why the nut slot should be higher than the first fret. The second fret certainly shouldn't be higher than the first fret, and there is no problem with buzzing on the second when fretting at the first, or at least there shouldn't be if the frets are all level. I don't agree with everything StewMac says on a number of subjects. I will say that having the nut slots the same height as the frets can cause problems in some cases, such as when the slots are cut with relief in the neck, and that relief is removed. You need to set the relief before dealing with the nut slots, because everything affects everything else. It's also possible to tighten the truss rod just a little too much, which induces some back bow, which is usually worst at the first few frets. This raises the first and maybe second fret so that it may be higher than the nut slots, by a tiny amount. Any back bow is unacceptable to me. I want my fretboard to be perfectly straight, no backbow and no relief, and that's a very narrow balance point. Most techs err on the side of caution, and put the nut slots higher, and also put some relief in the neck, because that keeps the need for occasional neck and action adjustments at bay. Unsatisfied customers who bring instruments back for more adjustment are expensive. I do mine for free, so I keep things closer to the balance point, and can adjust every day if necessary. I don't do work for profit, nor often for others. If I do work for my son or grandsons, I leave a little extra space, because I can't adjust theirs every day or week. I will also concede that playing with a heavy touch, and hitting the strings hard for acoustic rhythm volume, require higher action than i like. Higher nut slots and some relief prevent buzzes at the expense of poorer intonation and higher action, and the more relief the neck has, he higher the action has to be in the center to clear the higher frets when fretting near or above the 12th. It's all compromise of some sort.
    Yeah, techs cut nuts to high because too high is up for debate, buzzing is not…


    Skickat från min iPad med Tapatalk

  26. #25

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    Do some actual set ups then make up nonsense. The height at the nut is set higher for 2 reasons: to not buzz, and for the feel. The minimum height is one that won't buzz when the open strings are whacked. This requires more space than barely clearing, as the open strings will absolutely buzz when whacked a bit. However, they can be set higher than that to achieve a feel that isn't all flimsy and bare bones right down on the frets. Many people prefer this type of feel to dig into a bit, myself included. My numbers are .020" - .016" for low, and .022" - .018" for med/high staggered E-e.

    The numbers will shift after you move the neck relief, if you increase the relief the gaps will get bigger. So first you set your neck relief and saddle/bridge height and then you set the height at the nut slots.
    Last edited by Jimmy Smith; 07-29-2022 at 03:03 AM.