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  1. #1
    Hello

    I just changed the strings on my guitar from flat wound D'Addario 11s to 12s.

    I'm no guitar tech, but I've never had a problem setting up my guitar after a minor change like this. I'm reasonably competent at basic set ups.

    But for some reason, since the string change, I'm getting a buzz on my A string. Open & lower than the 6th fret it is fine. From the 6th fret until the neck meets the body, it buzzes. If I play fairly softly, it dosn't buzz at all. But applying more than moderate pressure causes buzz. The same amount of pressure does not cause any buzz anywhere else on any other string. All strings sound fine open as well.

    Additionally, I cannot properly intonate the G string. When perfectly tuned for an open G, it is flat at the 12th fret. I've run out of space at the saddle so I can go no further.

    I've checked the fret levels all over the guitar & I MAY have a slightly high 7th fret. Its hard to tell though. My ruler may not be perfectly straight and it seems even under the high strings, only on the lower strings is there the tiniest bit of wobble.

    I've set the action at factory recommended height. I didn't adjust the truss rod because when I capoed and tested string height it seemed fine. Perhaps it was slightly tight getting the feeler gauge under the string, but again, it was so close I didn't think I should bother messing with the truss rod.

    Any ideas? Does it seem like the buzzing A string and the G string intonation issue could be related?

    Thanks

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  3. #2

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    truss rod

  4. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by VanEpsInDeChirico
    applying more than moderate pressure causes buzz. The same amount of pressure does not cause any buzz anywhere else on any other string.
    Do you mean the pressure of your fretting fingers or how hard you pick? What happens when you bend a note that’s buzzing? Does the bend increase in pitch and sustain normally or does the note choke off as you bend the string more? Does the buzz get louder or softer when you bend?

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit
    Do you mean the pressure of your fretting fingers or how hard you pick? What happens when you bend a note that’s buzzing? Does the bend increase in pitch and sustain normally or does the note choke off as you bend the string more? Does the buzz get louder or softer when you bend?
    I mean how hard I pick. If I pick a relatively quiet note there is no buzz. More than moderate strength picking creates buzz.

    When I bend a note, nothing out of the ordinary happens. The note decays like it would on any other string except the buzz continues.

  6. #5
    Truss rod adjustments confuses me a little. When I give the neck MORE relief (turning the truss rod counterclockwise) the action raises and (I guess) the nut becomes slightly closer to the bridge. I would guess this should ease tension on the strings, but to me, it feels as if they are under more tension this way. Though maybe this is an illusion created by higher action?

    In any case, doing this helps a little bit with both intonation and buzz but does not fix either completely.

  7. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by VanEpsInDeChirico
    Truss rod adjustments confuses me a little. When I give the neck MORE relief (turning the truss rod counterclockwise) the action raises and (I guess) the nut becomes slightly closer to the bridge. I would guess this should ease tension on the strings, but to me, it feels as if they are under more tension this way. Though maybe this is an illusion created by higher action?

    In any case, doing this helps a little bit with both intonation and buzz but does not fix either completely.
    Turning the truss rod nut counterclockwise (looking down on the nut from above the headstock) on most guitars releases the tension and reduces the relief. I've never seen one that tightened with counter-clockwise turning, although I'm no luthier and haven't worked on guitars other than my own over the years.

  8. #7

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    Possibly it needs a fret level, but that would need actual inspection of the guitar. My first inclination, instead of adjusting the truss rod, would be raising the bridge just a little. If the frets aren't perfectly level, higher action is necessary to prevent fret buzzing. I prefer the relief to be as little as possible, zero if I can get it. More relief requires higher action, and doesn't do much for uneven frets. The quickest, easiest, and reversible adjustment is just raising the saddle with the adjustment wheels. If that doesn't provide acceptable playability, you might have to start over from the beginning.

  9. #8
    Thanks, yeah the only solution I found was to raise the bridge/action and even still it buzzes a little.

    The thing is, it was fine this morning before I changed the strings. So I assume its not a fret problem or it would already have been buzzing? But maybe I'm wrong.

    On a positive note, I think I've discovered that 12s are the ideal string gauge for me on this guitar if I can ever get the buzz stopped and lower the action.

  10. #9

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    You put lighter strings on it and they sit down in the nut a bit further so that makes sense it will buzz if it was just above buzzing on previous strings. A lighter gauge string set produces a bit less tension so neck probably straighten a bit and to me that would cause a buzz if previously it was as low as it could go. The g string not intonated well that could be the strings or other things.

    Need to know the action of the guitar at the 12th fret measure it will metal ruler in the 6th and 1st string. What kind of guitar is it? Give these answers and I can give some more input.

  11. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by deacon Mark
    You put lighter strings on it...Need to know the action of the guitar at the 12th fret measure it will metal ruler in the 6th and 1st string. What kind of guitar is it? Give these answers and I can give some more input.
    Hi,

    I actually put heavier strings on it. I went from 11s to 12s.

    With 1st fret capoed and pressing my finger on the fret that meets the body, the action at the 8th fret is exactly .010 after adjusting the truss rod today. I think it was probably about .07 before I adjusted it (I much preferred it at .007, but because of the buzzing I gave it a bit more upbow).

    Action at 12th fret is now:

    High E = 4/64 of an inch.

    Low E = 6/64 on an inch

    If I raised the low end to 7/64 it would probably stop but that's way to high for me.

    Its a 2014 Epiphone Les Paul Standard. From what I understand it pretty normal to be able to achieve quite low action on these.

    At one time I had it as low as 4/64 on the the low E string with no problems.
    Last edited by VanEpsInDeChirico; 03-09-2022 at 05:25 PM.

  12. #11

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    Oh is see heavier strings. Does not make sense and yes action is medium now. I would not want it higher and probably lower. What kind of guitar? Off hand I would get a set up. Too much to go into on internet. Need guitar in hand. Heavier strings should do the opposite of what you experienced.

  13. #12
    One more question if you have a minute:

    I just noticed that I mistakenly wound the A string in the wrong direction when I put on the strings!

    So on the headstock, the A string slightly touches the E string's tuning peg. I don't see why this would cause fret buzz (and especially ONLY when fretted above the 6th fret). But in your experience, could that cause the problem?

    Thank You

  14. #13

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    What kind of guitar model for the third time? Please tell us.

  15. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by deacon Mark
    What kind of guitar model for the third time? Please tell us.
    As I said before when you asked, its a 2014 Epiphone Les Paul Standard.

  16. #15

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    Yes, strings touching multiple tuner capstans can cause buzzing. The more acute angle from the nut to the capstan could do it. Lots of things can do it. It may be sympathetic vibrations, or maybe not. It could be a defective string. My first inclination would be to redo the strings correctly and see what happens. Next would be trying a different string, even the old one if it's still in good enough shape. D'Addario strings are usually of good quality, but any set from any manufacturer can have a bad string or more. But my first step would be to make sure the strings are wound correctly.

  17. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by sgosnell
    It could be a defective string. My first inclination would be to redo the strings correctly and see what happens. Next would be trying a different string, even the old one if it's still in good enough shape. D'Addario strings are usually of good quality, but any set from any manufacturer can have a bad string or more.
    Not that anyone cares, but in the interest of completing and closing the thread & for anyone who might read this years in the future (it always leaves me a bit anxious to come across some old thread where a problem remains unresolved at the end of the thread!): It was a bad string. I changed it out and the problem was solved. In a million string changes I never had a bad one before.

    Thanks for the tip, I'd probably driven myself crazy without ever trying a different string otherwise.

  18. #17

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    I don't know if anyone has covered this but a change from 11s to 12s quite probably means you've gone from a plain G to a wound one, so the intonation is gonna be off. There's lots of info on the net about how to adjust for this, depending on the bridge, of course.

    Going up a gauge is going to increase relief, so more buzzing is not logical, but it seems you've resolved that matter.

  19. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Peter C
    ...a change from 11s to 12s quite probably means you've gone from a plain G to a wound one...
    Yeah, the buzz is resolved, but the intonation is still a problem. Its a pretty small amount so I can live with it for now. And actually the G on the 11s was also wound. I've long had problems with getting perfect intonation on the G string of this guitar. It seems the thicker my string gauge gets, the worse the G string intonation for some reason.

    And I experimented with setting the neck from nearly flat to .010 relief/ upbow and everything in between. Nothing solves the issue. The G string also started having a slight sitar-like twang to it when fretted when I started using flat wounds a few months back. Whatever causes this may have been there before I began using flat wounds and perhaps something in the flat wound tone makes it more audible. I don't know. Again, its not very noticeable so I don't mind.

  20. #19

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    For an Epi with a tune o matic bridge the intonation problem is easy, simply take the saddle out and turn it around and it will allow you more room.

    For the buzz, it's possible that the higher tension from the 12s threw off the neck bow and that precipitated the buzz. To get the bow back to where it was before, you would have to tighten the truss rod. However, I wouldn't expect buzz there because more bow there usually helps things and you don't really run into any back bow problems that far back in the neck. Increased tension and bow coming back usually causes problems higher up in the neck. So I would think it's uneven frets but you have to inspect it to be sure like was mentioned earlier.

  21. #20

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    IME the buzzing of the D and G strings when the others don't, with low action, is caused by improper saddle radius. Saddles generally seem to have 15" or greater radius, and fretboards often have 12" radius, or less. This causes the outer strings to be higher than necessary when the center strings are at the lowest possible action, or for the center strings to buzz when the outer strings are at an acceptably low action. The only solution I know of is to re-radius the saddle. This can be done by sanding the entire saddle, or by deepening the slots of the outer strings proportionally. Which I do is generally whatever seems easiest at the moment. Often the slots don't have to me much deeper, so I usually start that way, and then do a complete re-radius if necessitated by the slots being too deep. Or you can just live with higher action or buzzing D and G strings.

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by VanEpsInDeChirico
    It seems the thicker my string gauge gets, the worse the G string intonation for some reason.
    That's interesting, since thicker strings generally intonate better on any given scale length. That's why most of us who play 7s use really heavy 7th strings - the angel hair pasta for which they're set up is much too thin for true intonation at standard guitar scale lengths. I use somewhere between 0.070" and 0.080" on all but my old ESP beater, whose tuners won't take anything bigger than the 0.065" that comes in a 7 string set of Chromes.

    Your pickup(s) might be too close to the strings. The magnetic pull can affect intonation and even cause spurious inharmonic overtones that dirty up the tone. I've seen this to be so bad that a tuner consistently showed the wrong pitch. If (per sgosnell's suggestion) you have the mismatch between fretboard radius and saddle radius that he describes, your G string would be closest of all to a level pickup and most susceptible to this effect.

  23. #22

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    One easy thing you can do to check for a bad string is this.

    Pluck the string and look at it. It should give the illusion of two separate strings. One sort of at the extreme left of the travel and the other at the extreme right.

    If that doesn't happen and especially if it looks wobbly, that is an indication of a bad string. This definitely works on wound strings, because a bad winding is probably what's wrong. I don't know if it works on plain strings.

    Wooden bridge archtops are intonated when the bridge is made, typically with the expectation of a wound G. Unwound G requires a different saddle placement. Perhaps that's involved in your issue. Turning the saddle around is the solution I've heard before and was provided by another poster.