The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
  1. #1

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    Hello from Italy I have as Epiphone Elitist Les Paul and I have ever used a 10-46 string set.
    For more jazzy sound I would up string gauge to 10-48 , 11-47 or 11-50 depends by type of string and manufacturer.
    Do you think I need to wide nut slots ? I'm not expert but difference in mm ( that I understand well ) is s very little difference.
    Between
    046 and 047 only 0.025 mm
    046-048 only 0,050 mm
    046-050 only 0,1 mm
    This is for the 6a string and apart firm general setting like truss-rod or action.
    What do your suggest me ?
    ( Excuse for my English)

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  3. #2

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    11-50 the nut slots are probably fine you are going to bigger no the same as going smaller.

  4. #3

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    Thanks.
    Tomorrow I will have new string then try.
    Later I will send images of nut to take and idea.
    Bye

  5. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by deacon Mark
    11-50 the nut slots are probably fine you are going to bigger no the same as going smaller.
    I don't mean to offend or second guess you, Mark - I know how knowledgeable and experienced you are. But I think a bit of explanation may help the OP. "Probably" is the magic word in your response - and I'm never comfortable doing things that will probably work until I've done what I can to maximize that probability of success.

    I use the new string as a guide. With a magnifying loupe or glass, I can usually see if the larger string is going all the way into the slot. If it's clearly sitting on the edges, the nut needs to be opened. If it seems to be seated, I slide it back and forth. If there's any obvious tug or resistance, the slot is too narrow. Sometimes it seems OK but you can feel a snap when lifting it out - this is also a sign to me that the slot needs dressing. If I can't tell whether the string is fully seated, I put a VERY tiny bit of baby powder on dark nuts and graphite on light ones (just enough to see) at the depth of the slot with a toothpick and I slide the new string back and forth (using the top of the wound end so I'll be cutting off the part with powder on it). If the powder remains in the slot, the string isn't touching the bottom and the slot should be widened.

    I've had more than one nut crack at the lowest slot (6 or 7) because I used a string too large for it. I didn't even notice this on my Epi Les Paul 7, because enough nut remained on the end to hold the string in place. I'd probably changed the strings more than once without even seeing it, and I only discovered it when I removed the strings to do a fret dress.

  6. #5

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    It's not possible to say whether the slots need to be widened without having the guitar in hand and trying it. The slots could be too narrow, or already wider than necessary. If it were mine, I would try the new strings and see if they bind in the slots when tuned, and if they do, even a little, then I would carefully widen the slots. They should already be a couple of thousandths wider than the strings, so they should be fine. I say should, because I have no idea how the slots were cut originally, nor whether they were redone or just wore with time. The OP will need to consider whether the truss rod and intonation need to be adjusted, but those are separate issues.

  7. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit
    I don't mean to offend or second guess you, Mark - I know how knowledgeable and experienced you are. But I think a bit of explanation may help the OP. "Probably" is the magic word in your response - and I'm never comfortable doing things that will probably work until I've done what I can to maximize that probability of success.

    I use the new string as a guide. With a magnifying loupe or glass, I can usually see if the larger string is going all the way into the slot. If it's clearly sitting on the edges, the nut needs to be opened. If it seems to be seated, I slide it back and forth. If there's any obvious tug or resistance, the slot is too narrow. Sometimes it seems OK but you can feel a snap when lifting it out - this is also a sign to me that the slot needs dressing. If I can't tell whether the string is fully seated, I put a VERY tiny bit of baby powder on dark nuts and graphite on light ones (just enough to see) at the depth of the slot with a toothpick and I slide the new string back and forth (using the top of the wound end so I'll be cutting off the part with powder on it). If the powder remains in the slot, the string isn't touching the bottom and the slot should be widened.

    I've had more than one nut crack at the lowest slot (6 or 7) because I used a string too large for it. I didn't even notice this on my Epi Les Paul 7, because enough nut remained on the end to hold the string in place. I'd probably changed the strings more than once without even seeing it, and I only discovered it when I removed the strings to do a fret dress.
    I am not offend and I say probably but realize all this diagnosis and talk of the forum is just that most of the time, a lot of talk. To get real and complete answer if a player is unsure ,s to take it to a competent guitar repairman. Many ask questions this forum that largely cannot be directly addressed without a in-hand look. If a person is not sure about the nut situation it tells me they are not experienced with the situation and need to do more research or take it to someone. For many players they can do these things themselves or figure it out, but the case of those who cannot or are completely lost is not small. Even repairmen vary in what they do in these situations or how they set up a guitar.

  8. #7

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    One thing when I set up an archtop or for mostly any guitar I like the nut slots to not be so deep as such but action correct at 1st fret. They certainly need to be proper size but I like to error on the side of not wide/deep as needed. This allows the string to vibrate fully the best. Also in the same thinking process I like the saddle where the strings cross to have just enough slot to hold the string in place. In some cases it would almost be hard to see where the string sits. Again is allows string the fullest vibration and the break over the top of the saddle should be almost a point but not a direct point. Just enough wood under the string, I have seen too many that come from various manufactures that have a wide base on the top of saddle where the string sits. Bill Barker was the luthier that taught me this critical saddle set up. If it is right at a point that works but the string can cut that point deeper over time. If it is too wide the string will no develop is best potential for sound. Small room for error. String spacing is also critical and done in final set up at both ends. It is not rocket science by any means but attention to detail will produce much better results.

    The issues is that at the factory this all takes time to get adjusted and cost. It is much easier to make the nut a bit higher so that clean sound happens without a lot of attention. It saves money but does not allow the best set up for playing. At the saddle it is easier to make the slot over the top a bit wider and cut a bigger channel for the string to set in so that set up goes fast and easy. It is all in the details.

    Related to string changes then going to a larger set of string with this set up will work. Going to a smaller set of strings usually will also work but again it just depends. If you cut things for a medium gage string say 12-54 right to the limit then decide to change to 10-50, it may need set up again as buzzing is more likely.

  9. #8

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    Very interesting reply, thanks a lot. Here some images of nut with 10-46From 046 to 048 or 050: nut slot issue?-epi_nut3-jpgFrom 046 to 048 or 050: nut slot issue?-epi_nut1-jpgFrom 046 to 048 or 050: nut slot issue?-epi_nut2-jpg
    These images are useful to understand?