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  1. #1

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    just a question first.If post pictures of my les paul and a little back story could i get some advise on wheather to restore or sell as is and what would be a reasonable price?i would have to hire out the restore.forgot how to upload pictures
    Last edited by EarlBrother; 03-18-2021 at 03:58 PM.

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  3. #2

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    If you trust us to be knowledgeable enough about the subject..... sure! restore or not to restore a Les Paul

  4. #3

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    I don't even need pictures. Sell it as is.

    Anything you do may decrease the value, at best you'll break even on the restoration investment. But you'll lose the time you spent restoring it.

  5. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by AllanAllen View Post
    I don't even need pictures. Sell it as is.

    Anything you do may decrease the value, at best you'll break even on the restoration investment. But you'll lose the time you spent restoring it.
    That depends an awful lot on the model of the Les Paul and how much restoration it needs.

  6. #5

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    If you are hoping to resell at a profit, you will have to weigh the severity of the original condition against the market, which to be frank, will do its best to low-ball you into submission.
    If, on the other hand, you want to enjoy a classic design for your own personal use, go for it. Your money, your choice.

    FWIW, I've paid to restore many an abused instrument. I've never regretted it.*

    * Of course, there are those who maintain I ain't quite right. Opinions differ.

  7. #6

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    EarlBrother, go ahead and post. For one thing I'd like to see the guitar and hear the story. For another, "restoring" is a big tent ranging from touching up cosmetics to taking a nearly destroyed instrument and bringing it back to playability. Sometimes that may not be a break-even economically but may be a big win for the heart (bringing your parent's/grandparent's/friend's instrument back to life, for example).

  8. #7
    ok willpost soon.the restore is back to original pups and machine heads.Pictures coming.The bakestory is not a big derestore or not to restore a Les Paul-img_3177-jpgrestore or not to restore a Les Paul-img_3178-jpgrestore or not to restore a Les Paul-img_3182-jpgrestore or not to restore a Les Paul-img_3191-jpgal.So short story became friends with a southern boy fromNashville.He had a band The Grizzly River Band.Needed a bass player.Willing to buy me an amp he had the bass.I go to his house thinking country music wasnt my thing but he said pay gigs were involved.I saw his charts mainly 3 chord songs and some vocal harmony.So i called walked into his practice room annd there was the les paul.this was 1980.well he said he got it off a kid in Nashville that wanted turn it into a stadium rock tool and he did this to it Bill Lawwernce pups and machine heads..Well he got it off the kid for 400.back 79.He was wanting a telecaster and said i could have it for 400.that was 81 had it ever since.#00133028 even though its dinged and altered every time i pick it up i feel the kalamzoo quality. Its really strange.Youknow your holding quality but i dont play it its heavy and i put a little pillow behind it to not be so close to me.anyway there it is.
    Last edited by EarlBrother; 03-21-2021 at 08:14 PM.

  9. #8
    up loaded photos and comments to the restore les paul thread.

  10. #9

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    restore it...to playable not original...the replacement tuning pegs are not even screwed in!...the top bolt around the post is whats holding it on..not good!...i'd get authentic sized tuning pegs...the bill lawrence pups are great...but the giant pup surrounds lead me to believe there was some major routing done...(it probably came with mini hums) so i'd leave that as is (you'd never cover the screw holes anyway!)...the "tuneable" tailpiece is very much of it's era...as are the changed brass knobs...i'd probably leave those on as well...

    so more than restore...i'd say worth getting it made playable...and from pic doesn't look like it would require too much work...unless there are problems not seen...

    with a Joe D polish it would probably look pretty good!

    luck

    cheers

  11. #10

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    What neatomic said. It's going to be a great sounding and playing instrument. Looking forward to the restoration thread.

  12. #11
    Gentlemen i cant thank you enough!!!For your observations.Keep you posted.the 400.bucks i think was well spent.I am pushing 70 in great health but maybe with the right strap i can get it comfortable to play.Feeling a little heavier as i get older.play my eastman exclusively.a year may go by and i get this thing out and though uncomfortable play im like dang.one time i got a long strap wrapped around my leg up over my shoulder and it was alittle more balanced..Anyway i will look straps and plug it in to see if everything still works.Again THANKS!!!let you know
    Last edited by EarlBrother; 03-22-2021 at 07:19 AM.

  13. #12

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    I have found that wide straps work best for me. Most of my guitars have dedicated straps with a straplock on the front end, and the length pre adjusted. I wear my guitars high and can play comfortably. Best of luck with the restoration!

  14. #13

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    If that's a Les Paul Deluxe, the original pickups would be mini-humbuckers in a special ring made to fit holes routed for P90s. What's there now looks like the routings were enlarged to accommodate full-sized humbuckers. Also, the mounting rings that are on there now are much larger than typical humbucker rings, so the mounting screws are not where they would normally be, and the rings themselves may be covering up an unusually large hole. To restore it to fit the original pick-ups, you'd probably have to fill in the routings and at least partially re-finish the top. I'm not sure if that's already in your plans or not, but something to consider. If it were my guitar, I'd leave the tuners, but I'd screw them in properly and maybe fill in the old holes. I like those Gibson branded Schallers (which with some 70s Les Paul Customs).

    John

  15. #14

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    Even if it was bone stock, a wine red Deluxe is not worth that much (3K tops) and restored she would be worth less than an unmolested example anyway. Back in the day, we modded Gibsons to make them better. Schallers are better than the stock Klusons (though those need to be installed better), the TP-6 is an improvement over the stop tail, (though some claim you lose sustain with a TP-6) and the replaced PUPS are better than the mini-hums to my mind (though the mini-hums do have their fans). The stock amplifier knobs of that era are ugly, those look good. I would fix the tuner install and call it a day if it were mine.

    I have been a fan of Lesters since the early 70's and have always had one in the stable. Once I reached my late 50's the weight of a 70's/80's Lester has become an issue, so my 11 pound 70's Lester is now long gone, replaced by today's sub 8 pound Les Paul Studio.

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stringswinger View Post
    Even if it was bone stock, a wine red Deluxe is not worth that much (3K tops) and restored she would be worth less than an unmolested example anyway. Back in the day, we modded Gibsons to make them better. Schallers are better than the stock Klusons (though those need to be installed better), the TP-6 is an improvement over the stop tail, (though some claim you lose sustain with a TP-6) and the replaced PUPS are better than the mini-hums to my mind (though the mini-hums do have their fans). The stock amplifier knobs of that era are ugly, those look good. I would fix the tuner install and call it a day if it were mine.

    I have been a fan of Lesters since the early 70's and have always had one in the stable. Once I reached my late 50's the weight of a 70's/80's Lester has become an issue, so my 11 pound 70's Lester is now long gone, replaced by today's sub 8 pound Les Paul Studio.
    Depending on how those pickups sound, I might replace them with something more PAF-like, but would not want to take on having woodwork and refinishing done in order to make mini humbuckers (which I like) work. I'm curious as to what's under those gigantic mounting rings.

    John

  17. #16

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    reason why i suggested getting vintage correct kluson style tuners is, the indentations left by the originals will always be visible under the ones currently on there..as you can see from the pic ^...and perhaps fortunately as the replacements weren't screwed in, a modern kluson would cover everything up cleanly...plus modern klusons have improved gear ratios...15:1...these days...and not at all expen$ive!

    also an easy nod to op's idea of true restoration!

    cheers

  18. #17

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    I'd say sort out those tuners, string it up and see if you want to keep it, (maybe a lap player).
    Check Reverb for the going rate for those, even modded. It could be a little investment might get you a decent return.

    Good luck
    Mike

  19. #18
    Well inhind sight those
    gibby tuners must be nice in view of the price.also the fact that i gave 4 hundred bucks for it.I could touch it up a bit and sell it for a little profit.First i will get the tuners situated and see with strap and some ibuprophen see what the old man do..Maybe get the Delux tuners from Stew for cosmetic reasons.i suddenly am really interested in this guitar.lol but ability to hold it and play it for 15 min to half hour with out a struggle for balance etc.How ever i could cut up in pieces and send each of you a part as payment for you insight.But i dont think i appreciate you guys that much.I'm a terrible person.Big Thanks seriously!!!!oh the only amp i have right now is a low milleage 1980 Polytone 5 15 inch speakers will see and maybe post how the PUs are.

  20. #19

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    Those pickups look like Bill Lawrence L500 dual blade humbuckers. But what is up with those pickup rings?

    https://www.wildepickups.com/products/l500

    1979 was apparently the first year for those pickups.

  21. #20
    What is the pickup rings ? that silver boarder surrounding the pu is that not normal cause i havent a clue.

  22. #21

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    no eb, the pickup rings are the flat creme plastic parts that surround the pickup..with the screws in them

    the chrome type rings are part of the bill lawrence pickup

    those are L-500's, but from way before wilde pickups ever started...bill lawrence was a pickup genius, but not the greatest business guy..he sold his name to a company that to this day manufacturers pups under his name... years later, when he started his own company again, he called it wilde pickups...a family biz

    those old pickups are very cool on your guitar...there's a lot more to them then how they look!!!...probably worth some good $$$$ alone!

    cheers

    ps- good example of an oversized creme pickup surround/ring...with a tele pup...from gfs

    Last edited by neatomic; 03-23-2021 at 09:20 PM. Reason: ps-

  23. #22
    Thanks Neatomic.I checked the pick ups on Ebay.There going for up to 200-250.a peice and bidding isnt finished on the lesser offers.Wow!!!!Thanks again everyone.
    i will take the rings off and see what lurks below.Maybe Thursday.Well the rings look brittle they conform to the curve of the body. If they crack where do i find such massive rings?i really need to see whats under there as mentioned in a comment earlier.This is scary.lol
    Last edited by EarlBrother; 03-24-2021 at 07:04 AM.

  24. #23

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    eb, be very careful with those pickup rings...those are original bill lawrence rings...not easy to find, and even if you do, not cheap...if you think they are very brittle. leave them alone...esp the neck one as it has been custom cut to fit the neck....luck




    ps- i knew those pickups were collectable! good for you

    cheers

  25. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by neatomic View Post
    eb, be very careful with those pickup rings...those are original bill lawrence rings...not easy to find, and even if you do, not cheap...if you think they are very brittle. leave them alone...esp the neck one as it has been custom cut to fit the neck....luck




    ps- i knew those pickups were collectable! good for you

    cheers
    Wow, I never knew those came with such wide rings. I wonder why?

  26. #25

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    I didn't like that wine red finish on LP Deluxes when they came out. Now in my old(er) age it has grown on me, especially with the cream trim.

  27. #26

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    I'm with the folks who say leave it as is and replace the tuners with Klusons.

    If you're selling it, sell it as is and let the new owner replace parts as he/she sees fit.\

    Nice git though. That was a pretty good deal back in the day. Apparently they went new for $500-600 at the time. (My 175 cost about $800 with the case.)

  28. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woody Sound View Post
    Wow, I never knew those came with such wide rings. I wonder why?
    those are the extra large surrounds..not standard...made specifically for covering route or screw holes from pickups larger than the paf style replacement humbuckers...or sloppy installs!! haha

    cheers

  29. #28

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    Maybe upon removing those rings, there's no damage other than the 8 little holes, maybe easily touched up, at least cosmetically. And then putting in standard humbucker sized rings. Who knows?

  30. #29

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    I'd keep the hideous plastic pickup rings for old times sake, but swap in:
    -Gotoh brand vintage-style tuners (way better than any other vintage reissues) - available in gold or nickel plate;
    -aluminum vintage-style tailpiece - available in gold, nickel, or chrome plate;
    -plastic Gibson speed knobs or bonnet knobs - gold or black coloured.

    You'll make the guitar at least a pound or pound and a half lighter.
    Last edited by Hammertone; 03-26-2021 at 12:13 AM.

  31. #30
    thanks everyone may go shopping over the week end.Would Stews have all those thing Hammertone mentioned?

  32. #31
    restore or not to restore a Les Paul-img_3326-jpg how bout a couple of these off white or cream color of course.

  33. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by EarlBrother View Post
    thanks everyone may go shopping over the week end.Would Stews have all those thing Hammertone mentioned?

    Well, that's not so hard, eh?

    -Gotoh brand vintage-style tuners (way better than any other vintage reissues) - available in gold, nickel or relic nickelplate. They're even on sale right now;

    https://www.stewmac.com/parts-and-hardware/tuning-machines/solid-peghead-guitar-tuning-machines/gotoh-vintage-keystone-style-3and3-tuning-machines.html


    -aluminum vintage-style tailpiece - available in nickel plate, metric or imperial threads;
    https://www.stewmac.com/parts-and-hardware/bridges-and-tailpieces/bridges-and-tailpieces-for-electric-guitar/gotoh-aluminum-stop-tailpiece.html


    -plastic Gibson speed knobs or bonnet knobs - gold or black coloured. Take your pick of Gibson styles:
    https://www.stewmac.com/parts-and-hardware/knobs/top-hat-bell-reflector-knob.html
    Speed Knob | stewmac.com
    Top Hat Bell Knob | stewmac.com

  34. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by EarlBrother View Post
    restore or not to restore a Les Paul-img_3326-jpg how bout a couple of these off white or cream color of course.
    Well, it's your guitar, so if you like it, go ahead. But I find those pretty hideous...... sorry!

    Personally I would see if normal pickup rings will fit and if not I would replace the cream ones for tortoise, or even better: celluloid ones.

  35. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by EarlBrother View Post
    thanks everyone may go shopping over the week end.Would Stews have all those thing Hammertone mentioned?
    Yes, they would!

    Gotoh Vintage Keystone-style 3+3 Tuning Machines | stewmac.com

    Gotoh Aluminum Stop Tailpiece | stewmac.com

    Speed Knob | stewmac.com

  36. #35
    If i sold as is what would be a reasonable/fair price to ask where both sides benefit.

  37. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by EarlBrother View Post
    If i sold as is what would be a reasonable/fair price to ask where both sides benefit.
    It depends on how chewed up the face of the guitar is under those gigantic pickup rings. Reasonable range for a similar '76 Les Paul (according to the serial number you provided) is @$1,500 - $2,500, based on Reverb price guides. Yours is probably worth less given its condition.

    You paid $400 in 1981. That's @$1,157 in today's dollars. So if you sell it for $1,200, as is, you essentially get all your money back. If there's no damage under the rings, and it's cleaned up and set up properly, you'll fetch more, based on the above-mentioned guides. Seems like plenty of room to price it "where both sides benefit."
    Last edited by Hammertone; 03-31-2021 at 11:55 AM.

  38. #37

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    i'd think more than that..the lawrence pups are bringing in 500$ by themselves!...even the bill lawrence surrounds are worth...so many 70's deluxes have been modded! not at all unusual!

    cheers

    ps- im seeing much higher on reverb..."$2,299.99 to $4,199.99 · In stock" ....and for modded to full humbuckers

    Gibson Les Paul Deluxe 1969 - 1984 | Reverb

  39. #38

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    Clean Deluxes and pro conversions are definitely worth $$$.
    This isn't one of them until we can see what's under those oversized pickup rings. If it's a hack job it's well below that range.

    If it's a clean job that could be made to look reasonably decent (which would require some finish touchup on the face to obscure the eight small screw holes that would otherwise be rather visible), with more accurate hardware, then I agree that we're getting into that value range. Sell the Lawrence pickups (for $500, news to me, go for it!) and replace them with something totally conventional and comparatively inexpensive, that works and looks right, from Gibson, Duncan or Dimarzio. More work, more investment, greater reward.

    I just assumed the worst-case scenario: sold as is, EarlBrother will get bottom dollar. It all depends on how much work he wants to put into it, if any at all.
    Last edited by Hammertone; 03-31-2021 at 11:31 AM.

  40. #39

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    ht, you know i value your opinions always...but i think where we diverge on this one, is that you are thinking of restoring close to original...and i think the authentic 70's-80's era mods will be a selling point to some!! original bill lawrence pups with authentic rings! that expresses complete mod vibe of that era!!

    i remember seeing all sorts of what would now be considered completely insane mods being done back then...rickenbacker 12 strings with removed toasters routed for dimarzio humbuckers!

    but i'm sure there's somebody out there that still wants one like that!! strictly for the era it represents..or the fact that they don't even know better...

    it's not the sellers job to educate

    cheers

    ps- just like some here think those ill fitting tuning pegs preferable to og style klusons!
    Last edited by neatomic; 03-30-2021 at 10:51 PM. Reason: ps-

  41. #40

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    Fair enough. I'm thinking more in terms of the cosmetics, and, to your point, there are folks for whom the looks of the guitar might evoke warm and fuzzy memories, despite its no doubt considerable weight. I'd still want to see what havoc might have been wrought under those hyooge pickup rings.

    I remember visiting a local guy to check out a black, 1980 Les Paul Pro, a model that appealed to me greatly in the warm and fuzzy category, until I picked it up (13 pounds. Yes, there are some lighter ones - lightest I have seen was 10 1/2 pounds). I moved on and embraced the Hysterical LPs. My heaviest Les Paul weighs 9 pounds - as heavy as I ever wish to go - but came with a special Papal dispensation due to its gigantic neck and extreme coolness. It's one of the original "Tonequest" guitars. All I did was remove some extraneous plastic and swap in a Mojoaxe bridge.
    Attached Images Attached Images restore or not to restore a Les Paul-gib-r4-tq_2530-jpg 

  42. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hammertone View Post
    Fair enough. I'm thinking more in terms of the cosmetics, and, to your point, there are folks for whom the looks of the guitar might evoke warm and fuzzy memories, despite its no doubt considerable weight. I'd still want to see what havoc might have been wrought under those hyooge pickup rings.

    I remember visiting a local guy to check out a black, 1980 Les Paul Pro, a model that appealed to me greatly in the warm and fuzzy category, until I picked it up (13 pounds. Yes, there are some lighter ones - lightest I have seen was 10 1/2 pounds). I moved on and embraced the Hysterical LPs. My heaviest Les Paul weighs 9 pounds - as heavy as I ever wish to go - but came with a special Papal dispensation due to its gigantic neck and extreme coolness. It's one of the original "Tonequest" guitars. All I did was remove some extraneous plastic and swap in a Mojoaxe bridge.
    O.M.G! That is gorg-eous!! I've got to go lie down...

  43. #42

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    That is one ugly guitar. If it plays well and makes sounds you like, then do some proper maintenance on it and keep it. But don't bother restoring it. It is so ugly it is almost charming in a weird way.

  44. #43
    wow just home and saw all the responses.Thanks uh the electrical switch plat was my attempt at humor.But it would contribute to its ugliness.haha i get to reading these a bit later.Thanks again

  45. #44
    here it is.I'm guessin this is good?or maybe not.sorrry about the giant photosrestore or not to restore a Les Paul-img_3356-jpgrestore or not to restore a Les Paul-img_3357-jpgrestore or not to restore a Les Paul-img_3358-jpg

  46. #45

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    ok good...decently done routing..not a hack job!!...good for you...just gingerly put those surrounds back...with the springs placed correctly...and you are good to go...

    somebody will love that guitar!!


    cheers

  47. #46
    ok gotoh or kluson tuners or gibson. ?

  48. #47

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    Gibson doesn't make tuners.
    They have them made for them by
    -Ping (China). Not great.
    -Kluson (Korea). More better, to quote graphic designer Toshihiro Katayama.

    Gotoh (Japan) are better than Kluson.