DIY ES-330/Casino kit guitar

[Eck]

Thanks. Here’s where I am. I started to think about making a routing template for body and (flat) top. Either in file or cardboard. Thinking maple body but see what the joiner has left over. Think bottom 4mm. Top not so sure. The carved reinforcements you mentioned missing in yours are purfling but only needed for ply sides-to-top or bottom. And I suspect your 330’s side thick enough to make them kind superfluous.
Kent Armstrong P90s.
Just struggling with the thickness of top and bottom. (And going very slow, my gas fixed by ordering fostex full range drivers and fitting enclosures hoping to hear lots of air around acoustic bass recordings)
I played an es-235 and it was loud acoustically. Saw Trogly’s video on YouTube and it seems the centre block is not wholly attached to the top, which would explain it. However that guitar is not airy like yours. And U$2300 or more.


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[Little Jay]

Thanks. Here’s where I am. I started to think about making a routing template for body and (flat) top. Either in file or cardboard. Thinking maple body but see what the joiner has left over. Think bottom 4mm. Top not so sure. The carved reinforcements you mentioned missing in yours are purfling but only needed for ply sides-to-top or bottom. And I suspect your 330’s side thick enough to make them kind superfluous.
Kent Armstrong P90s.
Just struggling with the thickness of top and bottom. (And going very slow, my gas fixed by ordering fostex full range drivers and fitting enclosures hoping to hear lots of air around acoustic bass recordings)
I played an es-235 and it was loud acoustically. Saw Trogly’s video on YouTube and it seems the centre block is not wholly attached to the top, which would explain it. However that guitar is not airy like yours. And U$2300 or more.


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Nice! Personally I would like the top and bottom to be arched, but that takes some serious DIY-ing to achieve…. Although in the Facebook ES-330 group someone did it, using the vacuum glueing technique. I don’t have room for projects like that in my small apartment. But ready made ply-tops for 335s can be bought I think (330 and 335 use the same body). But I am guessing you want to do everything yourself?

I did even play with the idea of ordering a 335 body and getting the back off and carving out the center block since there are no 330-kits on the market. And then fitting in a Les Paul neck since that has 16th fret joint as well. But when I found I could order a 330/Casino body with 16th fret neck joint with Bian Xuebin the decision was quickly made ;-)

[Eck]

Nice! Personally I would like the top and bottom to be arched, but that takes some serious DIY-ing to achieve…. Although in the Facebook ES-330 group someone did it, using the vacuum glueing technique. I don’t have room for projects like that in my small apartment. But ready made ply-tops for 335s can be bought I think (330 and 335 use the same body). But I am guessing you want to do everything yourself?

I did even play with the idea of ordering a 335 body and getting the back off and carving out the center block since there are no 330-kits on the market. And then fitting in a Les Paul neck since that has 16th fret joint as well. But when I found I could order a 330/Casino body with 16th fret neck joint with Bian Xuebin the decision was quickly made ;-)

Wow a carved top! The 235 ‘34 burst (looks like a ukelele sized sunburst) has that slight curve made by glueing and probably steam technique. My problem is I’m not worth $2000-3000 for a guitar to start with. (Improv on Whisper Not still a hit and miss....) The second problem is there are hardly any es-235’s around and they are kind of rock-blues-jazz guitars. Where I want a jazz guitar. Next problem I’m hooked on the shape of the 235, bit like a thinline 175, a sexy beast!
My big advantage is that I can take my time to work out the shape and materials. I’ll probably find a CNC for body and top, buy a neck and get a real luthier put it together and add binding...
I’d expect taking the top of a diy 335 may have you looking for new topwood but at least the shape of the body is there!


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[stevo58]

Digging up a zombie thread …

After giving up on the Casino I modded to death, I saw Bian was offering a 330 kit again, so I ordered it.

It ended up the same color as Jay’s, which wasn’t my intention but it worked out that way. I used aniline dye and SK water-based spar varnish, thinned 50% and rubbed. I wanted an open pore feel and I got it. I used all the hardware for the trashed Casino - Fralins, Bourns type 95 pots, Switchcraft, De Lisle Pentatone, Faber locking bridge, ABM 1504 tailpiece. It turned out well. Everything Jay said about it I confirm. The top layer of veneer is paper-thin, and the glue is water-soluble, so it was dicey using water-based dye and varnish. I screwed up a small area on the back. No kerfing, a block rather than braces, and five-layer laminate. I think the worn Casinos are actually the way to go for cheap 330-style guitars, but I always wanted to try a kit. I still have to touch up a fret or two and I need to do some nut work, but it is very playable as is and I like it. I’m partial to fully-hollow P90 guitars, though.

[Little Jay]

That looks great Stevo!!

I saw the kit Bian was offering (also available on AliExpress) and was very tempted to order but I restisted, haha!

I am still very very pleased with mine, it’s actually my number one guitar in terms of the guitar I gig and jam the most.

Mine became truly great (well, for my playing style at least) after I installed nylon bridge saddles and glued two short and rather thin braces under the top (from the bridge block to the neck). I had to kerf them to make them follow the contour of the top but that worked out very well. I feel that stiffened the top just enough with leaving enough liveliness and room to vibrate, hard to describe but it made it sound better and more responsive to picking techniques.

[stevo58]

I’ll keep that in mind, but will play it this way for a while before I make any changes.

One thing I love about it is the neck profile - it’s a nice C shape. The Epi had a flat D, which is the one profile I don’t get along with well. The fingerboard is a fairly nice, dark piece of rosewood. The frets were ok as delivered, but a dressing helped, and I am a bit fussy about sharp ends so I had work to do there.

This remains a practical sub for my vintage 125tdc, which is old, delicate, and fabulous. And I don’t have to worry about it getting beat up or stolen, like I would with a real Gibson.

One thing I like about Bian is you get a neck and body, but you don’t get a bunch of cheap garbage hardware.

Did you just use random pine for the braces, or is it fancy luthier wood?

[Little Jay]

I’ll keep that in mind, but will play it this way for a while before I make any changes.

One thing I love about it is the neck profile - it’s a nice C shape. The Epi had a flat D, which is the one profile I don’t get along with well. The fingerboard is a fairly nice, dark piece of rosewood. The frets were ok as delivered, but a dressing helped, and I am a bit fussy about sharp ends so I had work to do there.

This remains a practical sub for my vintage 125tdc, which is old, delicate, and fabulous. And I don’t have to worry about it getting beat up or stolen, like I would with a real Gibson.

One thing I like about Bian is you get a neck and body, but you don’t get a bunch of cheap garbage hardware.

Did you just use random pine for the braces, or is it fancy luthier wood?

Sure, if it ain’t broke don’t fix it!

I used random pine, I just paid attention to the grain and made sure it didn’t have any knots in it - I think they were slats out of an IKEA folding curtain ;-)

And yes the neck profile is great! It’s definitely on par with that of my ES-125 and that of my ES-333.

Your fretboard is indeed nice and dark, mine is much lighter, maybe it isn’t even rosewood. But it sounds and feels good.

I use my Bian 330 as a sub for my ES-125 as well, especially when I suspect I might experience P90 buzz; I resoldered the pickups to be reverse polarity and they are humcancelling when both switched on (I don’t know if they are reverse wound, if that’s a condition for humcancellation then they probably are and I was just lucky I guess)

[Woody Sound]

I didn't think 330's had a block going all the way from the top to the back. Am I wrong?

[AllanAllen]

I didn't think 330's had a block going all the way from the top to the back. Am I wrong?

Correct the 330 and the Casino are hollwobody. The 335 and Sheridan are the semihollows.

[Woody Sound]

Correct the 330 and the Casino are hollwobody. The 335 and Sheridan are the semihollows.

So the "Cooper's" little block is sort of in-between a 330 & a 335(?)

[Little Jay]

So the "Cooper's" little block is sort of in-between a 330 & a 335(?)

Hmm. It’s so small - only under the bridge (maybe 1” x 3” on an even smaller foot) - that I am reluctant to call it a block, it’s more a sound post. . To me it’s definitely more towards the 330 than the 335. The top is mostly vibrating freely and the guitar has the same typical short decay in the tone as that of an archtop. I think you could even say it has ‘thunk’.

[Woody Sound]

Digging up a zombie thread …

Nice job on the f-holes, whatever you used. And the varitone is verycool.

[stevo58]

Nice job on the f-holes, whatever you used. And the varitone is verycool.

They came bound from Bian. I’m learning how to make use of the Varitone (actually a De Lisle Pentatone). I put it in because I had it, for some unknown reason, and I like the way it looks, also for some unknown reason.

After playing it for a week, I’m pretty happy with it. The neck feels like home; it’s just very comfortable. As with every hollow P90 guitar I’ve played, it sounds great and gets a wide range of tones. I may try a few different cap values on the neck pickup; I think there’s an .022 on there now and an .047 might be better. I do so enjoy working on the electronics in these things. I’ll probably just parallel up another .022 rather than pull it all out.

[supersoul]

I’m learning how to make use of the Varitone (actually a De Lisle Pentatone). I put it in because I had it, for some unknown reason, and I like the way it looks, also for some unknown reason.

I don't want to hijack what is a really great thread on DIY 330s, but a quick question: would a Varitone be a good substitute for a regular tone knob? I have a guitar with FilterTrons, 1 vol, 1 tone, and I rarely use the tone. I'd be interested in darker, brighter, different tone alteration.

[stevo58]

In a word, no.

It’s a notch filter, and it cuts the output quite a bit. These are the De Lisle notches (in hz). I don’t know what the Gibson notches are - and they made changes to the Varitone over the years.

Position 1: True Bypass
Position 2: 1300
Position 3: 750
Position 4: 405
Position 5: 235
Position 6: 90

None of these frequencies are really treble. BB King, who is the only person I can think of who actually made use of the varitone, pretty much limited it to pos 2.

De Lisle recommends pos 2+3 for the bridge pickup, 5+6 for the neck, and 4 for any position. It reminds me more of a cocked wah than a tone control.

If you want, I can do a simple recording of the various positions.

If your tone control doesn’t do what you want, you can try other cap and pot values, or convert it to something like the old Howard Roberts model, with treble and mid controls.

[supersoul]

In a word, no.

It’s a notch filter, and it cuts the output quite a bit. These are the De Lisle notches (in hz). I don’t know what the Gibson notches are - and they made changes to the Varitone over the years.

Position 1: True Bypass
Position 2: 1300
Position 3: 750
Position 4: 405
Position 5: 235
Position 6: 90

None of these frequencies are really treble. BB King, who is the only person I can think of who actually made use of the varitone, pretty much limited it to pos 2.

De Lisle recommends pos 2+3 for the bridge pickup, 5+6 for the neck, and 4 for any position. It reminds me more of a cocked wah than a tone control.

If you want, I can do a simple recording of the various positions.

If your tone control doesn’t do what you want, you can try other cap and pot values, or convert it to something like the old Howard Roberts model, with treble and mid controls.

Thanks for the detailed response.

No need to make a recording, because I found a video on youtube that demonstrated each position. I do think it sounds cool, and maybe I could experiment with different capacitor values. There are schematics online and equations to figure out the frequency notch. It all depends on how easy it is to source the parts, will it fit, etc.

But it's a good suggestion to try other pot and cap values first before doing something more major.

[Buck_Guff]

Hey Jay, I love this guitar you made! Beautiful work.

Is there any chance you may want to sell it? Let me know, thanks!

[Little Jay]

Hey Jay, I love this guitar you made! Beautiful work.

Is there any chance you may want to sell it? Let me know, thanks!

No, I’m not selling it, I gig it several times a week!

But thanks ;-)

[Brian859]

There is a es335 kit from stew mac up for bids on goodwill. It looks like a good kit. The current bid is just over $150. But it has kind of steep shipping.

https://shopgoodwill.com/item/214869235

[Little Jay]

There is a es335 kit from stew mac up for bids on goodwill. It looks like a good kit. The current bid is just over $150. But it has kind of steep shipping.

Shopgoodwill

That looks like a nice kit. But a 335 with its center block and humbuckers is a different beast than a 330 or Casino, which is fully hollow and has P90s.

[Brian859]

True, but maybe someone reading this thread and looking to build a decent guitar might be interested to take a crack at it. Didn't mean to hijack it. It looks like stewmac doesn't offer that kit anymore.

[Little Jay]

No indeed, the only 330-kit I have seen is produced by Bian Xuebin, directly ordered wit him or through AliExpress and Temu.

[Woody Sound]

Seems like the f-holes are a bit too far, maybe an inch, toward the butt end.

[Little Jay]

Seems like the f-holes are a bit too far, maybe an inch, toward the butt end.

Most Asian kits have that nowadays. Bian’s ES-330 kit looks much better: