First-timer Archtop Build

[sbeishline]

This time, I used a 1/4" regular drill bit in the drill press with the dowel depth stop to 1/4". I did double check a few times throughout to ensure the drill tip was maxing out at 1/4" as I did not want any disasters:

[sbeishline]

For this one I planned to cheat and avoid the mallet/gouge for the majority of the wood waste removal- as evident by the angle grinder in the last photo ready to roll. I think I mentioned, I used the King Arthur Tools Lancelot, which is basically a chainsaw chain.



This method works pretty well, and IMO is much better than the mallet. Clearly, this thing gets sawdust EVERYWHERE. I mean there were pieces in almost all corners of this garage. haha

Current inside status awaiting the start of the D'A plane:



And current outside status awaiting the start of the scraper:

[rlrhett]

The Lancelot is very aggressive. I prefer a flap sanding disk in 60 grit. I feel I have much more control.


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[Bahnzo]

I'm really enjoying watching this. Thanks for sharing!

[sbeishline]

The Lancelot is very aggressive. I prefer a flap sanding disk in 60 grit. I feel I have much more control.


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It went fine, but I completely understand your point of more control and cut depth consistency, Rhett. Was planning to get a shaping disc (Kutzall or something of the like) for the top plate. The Lancelot left some steps that cause the transition to hand planing to again be a bit tedious, although, better than the Forstner bit with gouge/mallet.

[sbeishline]

I’ve been wood chipping away at the inside of the back plate. Took me about 3-4 days of using the D’A plane, and a few intermittent thumb blisters to get down to the bottom of the drill holes and ready for the orbital sander to check with the thickness calipers. As I said, the Lancelot still makes for a bumpy transition to the hand plane as seen here:



With progress, we’re now here:



Took some photos in the dark with a focal light to get the jist if the inside contour.


The mid 2/3 is still about .22-.25”, so a bit more planing and orbital sanding and we’ll get close to 3/16”.

[Bahnzo]

Took me about 3-4 days of using the D’A plane, and a few intermittent thumb blisters

I've been thinking...how much time resharpening plane blades has gone into this project?

[sbeishline]

I've been thinking...how much time resharpening plane blades has gone into this project?

Funny you ask. I was wondering how long I'd be able to go before I actually had to hone them! I bought these planes new for this a few weeks back, and they both came out of the box with really nice edges and ready to roll.

Last night was the first time I resharpened the D'A plane as the blade needed it- noticed a big difference. I refreshed it on all 3 water stones and finished it on the leather strop. I haven't used LN plane nearly as much, because most of this is with concave/convex surfaces and require the double convexity of the D'A and Lee Valley detail palm plane. Even if you don't overhaul them completely with the stones, etc, it's recommended to take them to the leather strop frequently with hefty use.

[lawson-stone]

Funny you ask. I was wondering how long I'd be able to go before I actually had to hone them! I bought these planes new for this a few weeks back, and they both came out of the box with really nice edges and ready to roll.

Last night was the first time I resharpened the D'A plane as the blade needed it- noticed a big difference. I refreshed it on all 3 water stones and finished it on the leather strop. I haven't used LN plane nearly as much, because most of this is with concave/convex surfaces and require the double convexity of the D'A and Lee Valley detail palm plane. Even if you don't overhaul them completely with the stones, etc, it's recommended to take them to the leather strop frequently with hefty use.

As a vintage straight-razor restorer and user, I just love hearing people talk about water-stone honing and leather strops.

Sends shivers down my spine!

What stones do you use? Grits?

[Bahnzo]

both came out of the box with really nice edges and ready to roll.

Last night was the first time I resharpened the D'A plane as the blade needed it- noticed a big difference.

Wow. Out of the box sharp is a nice thing! It's really nice when you resharpen and use again that first time, eh?

As a vintage straight-razor restorer and user, I just love hearing people talk about water-stone honing and leather strops.

Sends shivers down my spine!

What stones do you use? Grits?

While I'm not a straight razor guy, I do use the older (I have a 50's) Gillette safety razor. There's a lot of overlap with the straight razor folks it seems. Although I'm not really an avid collector, tho.

But I used to dabble in woodworking and I still have my waterstone. I have a 1k/2k with a couple of "chalks" as I call them which I use to hone. I used to use them for planes, but now they exist to keep my kitchen knives nice and clean. Which reminds me...they are due.

[sbeishline]

As a vintage straight-razor restorer and user, I just love hearing people talk about water-stone honing and leather strops.

Sends shivers down my spine!

What stones do you use? Grits?

Haha! I have Norton water stones 1000grit and a 4000/8000grit combo stone. I don't have a grinder, but am planning to get the Rikon 82-100 wet grinder at some point.

Wow. Out of the box sharp is a nice thing! It's really nice when you resharpen and use again that first time, eh?

Got that right!

[lawson-stone]

Haha! I have Norton water stones 1000grit and a 4000/8000grit combo stone. I don't have a grinder, but am planning to get the Rikon 82-100 wet grinder at some point.

For my razors I walk them up a series of Japanese (Naniwa) water stones: 1000 to set the bevel, 4000 to establish the edge, 8000 to smooth it, and finishing on a 12,000. Once a razor is really good, just a touch up on the 12,000 is all that's required.

[sbeishline]

Shop session yesterday... back to refining the middle 2/3rds of the inside. D'A plane to orbital sander and checking with depth gauge to approx. 3/16"



Haven't reported anything previously about scraping. I had zero knowledge about scraping before looking into this project, and from what I saw the thin, bendable scrapers didn't look like my cup of tea. I had no idea which ones to get- shapes, thickness, etc. I'd come across various things regarding Alan Carruth's work, and in looking on StewMac found he developed the Ultimate scraper. I watched the video, and bought the size original. Did you ever put a hot knife through butter? All I'll say is: I'm very glad I waited and got this. Done.



These are the post scrape pics in the cradle:



If you recall, I used the STP to get the edge of the plate to 1/4" (as recommended by Matt Cushman) so that plate would be less likely to move. Fortunately, the shape has still remained pretty flat. I took a bit of time to decide if I wanted to take the edge back to the STP to plane it down to 3/16" or do it by hand using the flat LN plane. I didn't want the STP to slip in the drill press, etc and ruin all the work I've done and started to trial with the hand plane. It seemed as though it was going to take quite a bit of time, so I decided to take a risk and STP it. I ensured the drill press table was true to the STP and clamped a piece of plywood to it, to ensure everything was totally flat when I was planing. I also tightened the hell out of the STP into the press to minimize the risk of any slippage. Turns out it did work okay and saved me a bunch of time.



I then used the flat LN to plane it in the areas it was able, and the convex D'A in the more curved areas the LN wouldn't do. Once I was close, I smoothed it all out with the orbital sander.



Here are the pics of the plate after:

[sbeishline]

I took a few photos of the half box to get a glimpse of what the guitar body will look like.



You can tell from the shadow that I'll have to use the scraper to refine the arch in a spot or two.

[sbeishline]

Started on the top plate in the same fashion as I did the back plate:

1. Cut out template. I modified the Benedetto template to go down by 1/16" for each level of the ziggurat, which involved adding a few levels. Started at 15/16 and went down to 5/16" at edge:




Set on the top plate:


Mess created with the STP:


Post STP and current status- ready for the LN and eventually the D'A planes:

[sbeishline]

Took the STP'd top and began the process using the flat LN plane to start knocking down the edges of the tiers. I use that until the curvature prevents the plane from making good contact and stops shaving. I then switched to the D'A for the most of the rest until readying for sanding.



I then used some 40grit sand paper to smooth the transitions a bit before I had access to the orbital sander:

[sbeishline]

Used the orbital sander with a new type of 100grit sandpaper pad from Klingspor that I think worked better than the Festool stuff. I think STP'ing more steps of the ziggurat (every 1/16") on the spruce made the contouring much easier than the back plate.



Had a small catastrophe when I was nearly at the quitting point.. the boom from the orbital sander came off the dust collector base and fall onto the top causing a few dents in the super soft spruce top :



Thanks to my bud Steve, he had some prior experience with this and recommended we iron a wet rag on the spots, in which the steam causes the wood to swell and self-repair. This helped quite a bit and nearly resolved the two towards the middle, and the 2 small dents will be sanded down in getting the edge to 3/16" - it's still probably near 5/16".



Having this happen was gut wrenching, but a good experience in that it forces me to realize that it's just a wood project, not brain surgery! Fortunately, it'll all be sanded out and never to be seen again.

[sbeishline]

Similar to the back plate, to indicate the glue surface of the top plate, I traced directly around the outside lined guitar shell and inside at the kerfing. Then I took a plastic washer and traced around the kerfing to allow about a 3/16" buffer, followed by a freehand 3/16" for the transition zone, so I don't short change the glue surface:



Took some pics of the outside of the top again at its current place:


Won't be back at it till next week since I'll be out of town, but next step will be to sand out the dents. I need to be thinking about whether or not to cut out the f-holes first before hollowing out the inside of the back.

[rlrhett]

I need to be thinking about whether or not to cut out the f-holes first before hollowing out the inside of the back.

No.


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[Sam Sherry]

. . . next step will be to sand out the dents.

Consider steaming them out first, especially since this is unfinished wood. With these pinpoint dents it might be as simple as a wet cloth and a soldering iron.

[Jehu]

Won't be back at it till next week since I'll be out of town, but next step will be to sand out the dents. I need to be thinking about whether or not to cut out the f-holes first before hollowing out the inside of the back.

What rlrhett said. You'll want to get the plate close to final dimension before cutting those f-holes.

[sbeishline]

Took SamSherry's advice and decided to give a 2nd steaming a go. It did help a little bit and after it dried I sanded the minimal residual spots out:



Of note, you'll see I measured from the end of the tail block where the 15th fret will be meeting the body and measured the distance to the bridge location using a fret calculator on tundraman.com, which was 10.415" (as previous mentioned way back by Matt Cashman).

[sbeishline]

I then used the Benedetto book to determine the depth recommendations for the top plate using parallel bracing:



I then printed a copy of the f-hole size I'm planning to use (5 3/16") and cut it out to use the points of the f-hole (circled in blue) needed to mark the distance from the center line (3 3/16" on upper end and 5 1/8" on lower end), prior to drawing in the lines. I probably could have eyeballed this, but I figured the practice for the front wouldn't hurt.



Then flipped the f-hole and did the same thing for the other side, and drew in the 2 guidelines:



Finally, I marked the appropriate depths for the drill holes:

[sbeishline]

I then used the same setup as the back plate, using a dowel as a depth stop and using the set-up blocks to set the drill press to the appropriate depth. I decided to set the depth to 1/16" shorter than the indicated depth to avoid any short changing with the wood removal process, so my depths were 1/4" for the 3/16", 7/32" for the 5/32", and 3/16" for the 1/8".



I also took Rhett's advice and bought a 40grit flap disc sander for the angle grinder. This worked really well, especially since the spruce is so much softer than the maple.



Despite this, I ended up sanding some areas thin and in one particular area, scarily too thin; although, I didn't go through, thankfully.

Similar to the back plate, I used the orbital sander and D'A plane to get down to the appropriate depth down the middle. In the end, I got the appearance to be acceptable. And, it'll be on the inside. Because of the thin area, I wasn't able to tidy it up, but as they say, it's the 'mark of the maker'.

[sbeishline]

Here are some pics taken outside to give an idea of what this box will look like:


Next steps will be to use the spindle sander to get the edges close to the true extended edges (I'll sand to final dimension by hand later), marking and cutting out the f-holes, milling/marking/shaping braces, and placing the locator pin/hole for when its time to close the box.

[asedas]

Any updates? I'm super curious

[sbeishline]

Any updates? I'm super curious

Stay tuned... shop was out of commission for about about month, so I had limited progress. However, I've taken some photos of my progress since and will try to post some updates later tonight.

My wife is pregnant with our first, so I've been demoing and just repainted a bedroom. Will need to install some hardwoods within the next month or so, so expect another delay!

Thanks for the support man!

[2bornot2bop]

sbeishline, congratulations on becoming a dad! You're a lucky man!

[sbeishline]

sbeishline, congratulations on becoming a dad! You're a lucky man!

Thx 2B!

[sbeishline]

After my last post, I decided to start some progress on the neck.

I used a sheet of 3/4” plywood and made the neck template using the dimensions in Benedetto by band sawing and getting to final line with a block plane:



I then made a decision to make the entire neck out of mahogany and not use maple, as my front is so light, I want to avoid ending up neck heavy. I milled up a nice piece of mahogany and traced the 3 patterns onto it:





Good thing I didn’t band saw it, because it dawned on me that he used a 25” scale and mine will be 24 3/4”. Despite crunching all kinds of numbers using a fret calculator with 15th fret neck/body joint, I couldn’t get an agreeable number that correlated with Benedetto’s (25” scale and 14th fret neck/body joint). Not sure if entire nut thickness in included as Benedetto puts his on the headstock angle before the flat neck, so maybe that’s it? AFAIK, scale begins where nut ends as it leaves it?

So, I stopped and haven’t done anything else with the neck until I figure that out.

[sbeishline]

I then decided to drill the locator holes/dowels as described in Matt Cushman’s post on closing the box.

Drilled the holes using 1/4” bit and went to about 1/16” into the neck and tail blocks on both front and back sides. Then using 1/4” dowel centers in those holes, I attempted to line up the sides with the appropriate traced line on the top and back plates, and gently tapped to make the mark on the top. I then drilled the same 1/16” holes:



Here’s one of the locator holes on the top plate:

[sbeishline]

I still had the top plate at 1/4” thick, and at this point went back to the STP on the drill press to thickness the plate to 3/16” all-around the edges:



Then went back to hand planes:



Using tangential lighting, you can see it needed additional finesse:



Eventually went back back to the orbital sander to smooth out those contour transitions:

[sbeishline]

While I had no shop access, I did borrow the spindle sander and sanded the top and back plates to the appropriate lines. Because of the extended-edges, I have about 1/4”-3/16” beyond where the side will be:

[sbeishline]

Next up, I milled the spruce braces to 5/16” thick on the planer:



I then used a pencil-through-washer method and rolled it along the inside of the top to trace the contour. I then cut them out on the band saw as close to the line as possible:



Because the braces are 2” in height, I repeated the washer tracing and band saw’d it again as I’ll only need height in the middle of the braces to be 5/8” and tapered to approx. 1/8”-3/16” and the ends:



The bottom end of the braces measures 2” in from the edge and the top measures 1/2” from midline, per Benedetto. I then measured from neck joint mark in order to identify bridge location, and ensured both braces were 3” apart at that point:

[sbeishline]

Yes - if you find yourself thinking, that’s gotta be tedious.. CORRECT. This part sucks. You don’t have much room to wiggle when sanding the bottom of the brace, but now isn’t the time to become impatient. I used thin, double stick tape and tape a strip of sandpaper to the brace location and had at it:


I marked the bottom of the brace with pencil to indicate the high spots. Tom Bills uses a small hand plane to speed the process to knock down some of the high spots, which I did a little, but mostly just kept at the sanding:


Continued.. and changed paper once to ensure adequate sanding.


Finally, I used a Japanese pull saw to cut the top end to size just below where the edge transitioned:

[sbeishline]

I picked an image of a standard cello-style f-hole and had a friend with a printing machine print it onto a piece of thick paper. It came semi-cut and I just punched it out and used the existing outside shape to trace where the center part was. I extended the bridge line to use as a center guide, and slowly adjusted the points of the f-hole to 3 1/4” from centerline at top and 5 1/4” from centerline at bottom:


Doubtful anyone would notice, but the treble-side f-hole bottom point is about ~1/16” off.

[sbeishline]

I began drilling a hole in each f-hole end:


I started a coping and fret saws, but because my top is so thin and has so much flex, it makes the sawing too uncertain:


So, I decided to drill more holes along the f-hole and experiment different methods on the safest cutting. I didn’t have my Dremel with me because I headed to shop right from work (obviously), but think that may be more helpful and not too dangerous. So, I alternated between a scalpel and bench chisel:


This spruce is ridiculously soft, so any wrong move and it’s toast. Honestly, because wood is unforgiving and not-self repairable it’s more difficult than operating with human tissue.

This is where I halted for the night and current state:

[sbeishline]

Brought the Dremel over to the shop today to help with wood removal, and that did the trick in removing some of the wood waste. I mostly used the chisel and Dremel until I got close to the line:

I then used 100 grit sandpaper double-stick taped to a ruler:


Because these f-holes are so intricate, I needed to use something thin and semi-robust, but flexible and came up with the 100grit double-stuck to a straw. This really did the trick around points and the top and bottom of f-hole. Because you could squeeze it in place, it helped itself add pressure when it tried to form back to its cylindrical shape.

When I needed more pressure, I inserted a rat tail file inside the straw:


This is where I switched to the other f-hole:

[sbeishline]

Started with 2 pilot holes and widened them using the Dremel:


I then added a few holes along the f-hole to assist in wood removal:


Because the bass-side area didn’t have that previously mentioned scarily-thin area, which was too flexible to saw, I was about to use the coping saw to connect all the dots and create and opening all the way through:



Did the same method as the other one with chisel and Dremel for majority of wood removal until I used the sanding implements. Finally, I notched the f-holes using a chisel and scalpel:



Current state below. This was extremely delicate and needless to say, I’m happy with the result:


Learning lesson, leave the f-hole area thicker next time.

[rlrhett]

You don’t seem to have left any room for binding. Are you not going to bind the F hole?


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[sbeishline]

You don’t seem to have left any room for binding. Are you not going to bind the F hole?


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Correct. As I'm going with the violin/cello design, I planned to leave them unbound.

[asedas]

Correct. As I'm going with the violin/cello design, I planned to leave them unbound.

I LOVE that idea. Cannot wait for the final!

[sbeishline]

I LOVE that idea. Cannot wait for the final!

Long way to go, but I’m just keeping my focus on what I hope it becomes! Haha

[sbeishline]

Was happy with the fit of the braces and fired up the HHG pot. I basically followed the Cushman method for this process.

To minimize glue squeeze-out, I masked alongside the glue markings:


I then brushed some glue on the bottom of the brace and on the top plate, and held the brace by hand for a min or so. I immediately repeated the process for the other brace and set some weights on top to keep some pressure for 24hr:


I was happy with the overall fit, and will take the weights/tape off this evening:


Hopefully it will look better than that Gibson ES-275 in the nearby thread!

[sbeishline]

Took off the weights and masking tape tonight and although the fit isn’t flawless, seems fairly acceptable. Some of the dark along the brace is pencil mark, not necessarily space:


Also took a pic with the front plate and side ribs shell in place:


After I got home, I used my LN 101 plane and shaved one of the braces to 5/8 near bridge and will finalize the tapers to 1/8”-3/16”:


Will plane the other one and finish shaping both tomorrow night.

[sbeishline]

I cut the 5/16” cylinder locator dowels and adjusted the locator holes to ensure the top and back plates seated fully, and while I had it all out I took some pics of the box:


Really starting to look like a jazz box!! Must admit, I'm really proud of what I’ve done from a woodworking standpoint, even if it’d sound like a dud. It makes for great appreciation of luthier’s skill. If nothing else, it would make for some cool wall art. Onwards and upwards.

[zcostilla]

Nothing short of amazing for a first build.

[lawson-stone]

Wow you are doing what many of us dream about. I really hope after I retire in about 8 more years to build guitars, just for fun and maybe to bestow on family members or friends. I'm hoping to learn along the way and gradually acquire the tools and materials. You've been a huge inspiration.

My biggest worry actually is finishing. I think I can do the woodworking, but worry that I could ruin it all with a horrible finish.

[sbeishline]

Nothing short of amazing for a first build.

Zcos- Thank you! The encouragement helps.

Wow you are doing what many of us dream about. I really hope after I retire in about 8 more years to build guitars, just for fun and maybe to bestow on family members or friends. I'm hoping to learn along the way and gradually acquire the tools and materials. You've been a huge inspiration.

My biggest worry actually is finishing. I think I can do the woodworking, but worry that I could ruin it all with a horrible finish.

Appreciate you saying that, L-S. Most people including my dad, who's likely reading this, suggested I start with a solid body or a kit. Probably not a dumb recommendation. However, I'm not really driven to spend a lot of time (it takes a lot - see 1st post date), effort, and cash (specific tools, etc.) that doesn't light the spark. I wanted to make what I've been envisioning, and there is only one way. I figured it's literally just another wood working project. So I thought, instead of making some cabinet to learn woodworking skills, just try the archtop.

I'm realizing and appreciating what it's like when you watch someone on an interview that's done something impressive and they're asked about people who want to be like them and they say something like, "Follow your dreams! You can do it!" Everyone dreams.. but taking the step to actually JUMP IN- I think that's the limiting step for most people. Seeing that guitar body makes it stand true for me - you CAN do it. Don't let the thoughts of difficulty of the finish hold your reins- have at it when it's right for you. Granted, I'd probably not have this thread if I wouldn't have access to the shop and tools- very fortunately in that respect.

In the Benedetto book, there are inspirational quotes at the beginning of each section and the one that speaks to my hesitant personality: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."

I think the hardest parts are still ahead for me, but in the end good or not so great, its still only a wood project.

[lawson-stone]

Yes, I agree. I a actually have tried a couple kits and just lost interest in them. Along the way I've picked up some nice laminate back/sides/top pieces and some old Epiphone rough-carves, and I'm accumulating the tools. I have a shop, but it was mainly a gunsmithing shop that I'm transitioning to woodworking. I haven't got the time to be actually building, but I'm reading, watching others online who do it, and collecting tools and information. I will likely do like you and just pick an archtop design I like and go for it.

You've been a big inspiration to me!