The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    Deleted
    Last edited by jjang1993; 11-10-2022 at 12:39 PM.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    Not unheard of. See the links below. I apparently have very neutral sweat has I have a several guitars with this fret wire and one I have played 2-3 hours a day for the past year with absolutely no sign of wear. It might have also been a bad batch of wire. Since you won't do stainless, my recommendation is to polish and when needed refret.
    Evo wear
    Last edited by rob taft; 02-20-2019 at 11:07 PM.

  4. #3

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    I have done lots of fret dressings over the years and refrets. Never have I seen anything like that at all. I have seen the typical cuts deep in the fret and a complete mess but never what you are posting. I looked at the links provided by the Rob and I guess I still wonder. Clearly I would go back to nickel silver if this is what is going to happen. I just love the Gold EVA and did a recent set of super jumbo's for a fine player who is on the forum sometimes. I think they are best frets in the business so this has me wondering. I am not going to stainless steel that is just too hard and eats tools right up. Huge premium if you want me to do the stainless steel.

    Basically I would do stainless steel if you agree buy the tools for about 1/3 of the price of each tool. Then I can recoup because after 3 fret jobs I am going to have to get another set.

  5. #4

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    what kind of strings did you use on it??

    cheers

  6. #5

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    Nickel frets are not well-known for sweat resistance either so you would be back to square one in a few months' time.

    There is a Spanish luthier, Jaen, who reported a similar issue with the EVO frets he installed for a customer. They wore faster than expected.

    The scalloped parts don't affect the intonation of the strings at the points where the strings touch the frets, do they? So, it is merely a cosmetic issue. If the guitar plays in tune at all frets, leave it alone.

    Did you get the EVO GOLD from Jescar directly or one of its authorised dealers, namely StewMac, Philadelphia Luthiery Supplies or LMII? I won't trust any other source for this fretwire. I got mine from LMII ($25 for a pre-cut set) and I don't have this issue. OK, I don't play as hard as you do.

    Mike Lull has a great reputation in the PNW but $700 for a re-fret? Man, I would just sell the guitar and buy a new one as I would a pair of shoes. If that is the new going rate I may just have to stop playing guitar. I double on the sax and a top of the line mouthpiece is $700 and that is considered very expensive. You need to find a new tech, not a rockstar tech. Or take a re-fretting course, buy a few tools and learn to do it yourself.

    I am being half-facetious about this but do you wash your hands before playing and wipe your fretboard down after playing or in between sweaty songs? Do you have a hand towel to dry your hands when they get clammy? I use a very light application of Autosol to shine up the frets about once every six months and Autosol seems to protect the frets. Leaves them very slippery to the touch. Perhaps you need to practise better fret hygiene.

  7. #6

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    Ermmm, you don't pay European VAT on the Sonntag when you are in Seattle, WA. US import duty is about 8% on non-USA guitars and sometimes the guys at US Customs look the other way.

    Steve Andersen of Seattle is as good as or better than Stefan Sonntag. You have one of today's best archtop luthiers in your town. Check Steve out. $5600 for his 16" Streamline is a great buy.

  8. #7

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    My dentist, and many others, makes jewelry as a hobby. They have the tools and the eye hand coordination. Perhaps yours might be talked into a new undertaking in hardened gold?

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jabberwocky
    ......Mike Lull has a great reputation in the PNW but $700 for a re-fret? Man, I would just sell the guitar and buy a new one as I would a pair of shoes. If that is the new going rate I may just have to stop playing guitar. I double on the sax and a top of the line mouthpiece is $700 and that is considered very expensive. You need to find a new tech, not a rockstar tech. Or take a re-fretting course, buy a few tools and....
    Jabs, In fairness to Mike, he does soup to nuts, and plekorama! I've had $300 jobs by others that I've regretted, some that I've not. But when I've had him do it, it's been a thing of beauty! And, it obviously has to do with the guitar value. That said, you're right about the price. I wish it where free!!! Hahaha
    Also, I've had EVO golds on my last several, no problems. Never seen a wear pattern like that! Alien blood. Should get a DNA test! Just kidding!

  10. #9

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    Please keep us posted about your unusual fret issue. Stranger things have certainly happened.

    Oh, and about the acidic hands of the track star...that's urban legend for sure. Not sure when Jesse Sullivan ran, but relay batons were usually made from aluminum or plastic, which are both non-corrosive.

  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by jjang1993
    Hahah omg I talked to one of the managers at Jescar and he wanted to see the photos and he was straight up stunned. He said he's never seen or heard of that with EVO frets. .
    Both links in the first reply by Rob Taft show the same thing, so at least you're not the only one. If you missed it, you should read both posts, especially the one about the mandolin. Some good posts by experienced luthiers with several pictures of the same wear.

    Some say it's the high copper content of EVO reacting with high PH, and others say they've seen it with nickel as well. Hard to know what to do...

    One thing that made a lot of sense in there: these guys buy more than one job's worth of wire at a time, so if it was a bad batch they'd see it on other instruments that were done with the same stuff.

  12. #11

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    You might try using FastFret or FretEze. I don't know if it will help, but it can't hurt.

  13. #12

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    Are the frets actually scalloped? Hard to tell ...

  14. #13

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    I love scallops. Pan seared.

  15. #14

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    JJang, Of the tasks you addressed in your email above, I'd just do #1 and #4.

  16. #15

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    Interesting ...my theory is that the combination of the sweat or body chemistry PLUS the strings /fret combination might be how it occurs ...

    However I have no idea exactly how or why ....

    Some of the Luthiers who make Gypsy Jazz Guitars have said the EVO holds up well even for those Players who are apparently brutal on frets...

  17. #16

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    The only obvious reason is inferior quality control for the metal composition. Not saying that is the reason, but I can’t see another one that makes sense.

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by lammie200
    The only obvious reason is inferior quality control for the metal composition. Not saying that is the reason, but I can’t see another one that makes sense.
    This is exactly why I tell them never to keep the large bags of french fries near the vats of molten alloy....

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by jjang1993
    How much would these protocols go in the long haul in preventing this from happening again to this extent and/or this early on?
    1. Washing my hands with dawn dish soap before I play.
    2. Wiping the strings and frets down between songs on a gig.
    3. Wiping the entire area of the string after I'm done playing.
    4. Wiping down each fret after I'm done playing.
    5. Cycling through 4 different T-shirts every 2-3 days for wiping purposes.

    I'll be sure to keep everyone in the loop with these developments with me being 1 of the 3 people known so far to burn through these EVO frets like the Alien blood burning through steel hulls that you see in that sci-fi series.
    1. Washing my hands with dawn dish soap before I play.

    That will help a lot; you should already have this habit.


    2. Wiping the strings and frets down between songs on a gig.
    3. Wiping the entire area of the string after I'm done playing.
    4. Wiping down each fret after I'm done playing.
    5. Cycling through 4 different T-shirts every 2-3 days for wiping purposes.

    Here is what I suggest... get a nylon carpet sample and cut a piece to fit in your case under the head stock, always ready.

    The advantage of the carpet sample is that it has some depth to it and will truly scrub the finger board and frets, and strings, including under the strings. A good full scrub is about 50 strokes from nut to bridge and back, about 30 seconds, which is what you want to do after you have played and are putting the guitar away.

    When you are getting the guitar out to play, it should be clean already, and the half dozen stokes then really serve to warm up the strings before checking tuning. The carpet sample is going to be about 4" x 4" and easy to set on you amp or fold and put in your back pocket, so you can give the strings a quick half dozen strokes between tunes.

    Before it gets too cruddy, cut another fresh piece and discard the old one.

    When I change strings I apply ChapStick to the finger board and then wipe it with the carpet sample, which leaves a little in the carpet. This seems to make it more effective for keeping the strings, frets, and finger board clean (ChapStick is waxy, not oily; it wipes off easy and the trace left has a natural feel).

    Using this approach my strings stay as shiny as new, and the limiting factor is that eventually the notch wear of the string to fret contacts causes a sufficient anomaly in the consistency of the strings to start becoming audible... they will eventually start to sound bad while still looking and feeling like new.

  20. #19

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    I don't know if it was mentioned but if the OP keeps the guitar in its case that may be the culprit. Someone may have applied something to the padding in the case that caused the degradation of the frets. It makes sense since the degradation is between the strings and very even. Maybe something like Lysol residue would cause this?

  21. #20

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    Man - that's a lot of work frets .

    Send a picture and quick description of problem to Jeff Silver ask if he can help or have your installer send it.

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by lammie200
    I don't know if it was mentioned but if the OP keeps the guitar in its case that may be the culprit. Someone may have applied something to the padding in the case that caused the degradation of the frets. It makes sense since the degradation is between the strings and very even. Maybe something like Lysol residue would cause this?
    Yeah, now that you mention it, the amazing regularity of the degradation does suggest that something was "all over the finger board" and it wasn't fingers, looks like something else like case top padding... good clue!

  23. #22

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    It would also explain the spacing of the divots. My guess is that someone either put something on the case padding or the chemical they used to polish the frets wasn’t properly wiped off the frets and it transferred to the padding. The chemical was harsh enough to degrade the frets.

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by lammie200
    It would also explain the spacing of the divots. My guess is that someone either put something on the case padding or the chemical they used to polish the frets wasn’t properly wiped off the frets and it transferred to the padding. The chemical was harsh enough to degrade the frets.
    Is the pattern on ALL the frets? Or just a certain area?

  25. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woody Sound
    Is the pattern on ALL the frets? Or just a certain area?
    You would have the ask the OP. I am only arm chair quarterbacking on this.

  26. #25

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    This guitar has been in my customer's hands for 4 years and 8 months:

    EVO Gold Frets Corroding-img_20190716_140850-jpg

    I'm not sure yet what we will do about it. Stainless I suppose.