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Well I'm sick about it as my #1 '54 Guild X550 fell off the strap last night and hit the deck hard. Fortunately it didn't sustain more damage considering! Having a right angle plug probably saved it from the jack punching all the way through. I've seen guys slap a Les Paul type jack plate over the top, and I'd prefer not to do that--even if the previous and new stress cracks remain visible (the guitar is far from mint). And there's the chip in the binding too. I'd love to hear some thoughts on the best way to have this repaired, etc. Thanks!
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10-14-2018 12:31 PM
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Oh dear. Deepest sympathies!
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Don't worry. Find a competent luthier. It can be repaired without a hack-a-jack LP plate job. You would regret that. I've seen luthiers make things like that disappear, and you would swear that they were magicians. I love good luthiers. They walk on water, as far as I'm concerned. We have a number of Luthiers on the forum that can advise you, and they will. Stand by. You'll be impressed.
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Originally Posted by skykomishone
The good ones very much remind me of the remodelers I hired to upgrade my bathroom. The complete job took 2 weeks, and for the first ten days, they were just good tradesmen - good carpenters, tilers etc.
But I just didn't realize how good they are until those last few days, as they started matching up their 'new' work with 60 year old faded casework, plaster walls, hardwood floors etc etc. You basically can't tell where they've been !
So all the best of luck with your repair !
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I'll be a contrarian and recommend a jack plate. It's done by lots of actual luthiers, and it strengthens the area. I really have no idea why plates aren't used from the start by builders. Many do, but most don't, and I suspect it's mostly an economic issue, because the plates cost money. It's not a big issue for someone building a few guitars per year, but for a factory it's a significant expense.
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Even with a jack plate, the wood has to be brought back into proper alignment and reinforced from inside. The problem, of course, is that with an archtop guitar access to that area is quite limited. I would suggest not just a luthier but specifically an archtop guitar luthier. it is likely that there are forum members who would know someone in your area to go to.
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ugh..so sorry...this was jim halls not very pretty solution
to really do it clean and right, the back needs to be removed..and thats a big $$$ job
don't know where you are located, but curt @ Old School Guitar Repair, Restoration & Lutherie might be able to help...he's a guitar trauma er specialist and a refinishing scientist...send him a pic and see what he says
cheersLast edited by neatomic; 10-14-2018 at 11:18 PM.
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Very do-able repair. Where are you located? I did one of these recently. Fitted a patch on the inside and pulled it tight to the side aligning the broken pieces of the side in the process. It was a little tricky. Pulled the patch as I would a cleat, tight and taut with a threaded jack. It's within reach of the F holes so while tight, it's not crazy difficult. I did enforce it with a jack plate, yes. That's a good idea. I do tend to cut the access hole larger when I'm doing this so the entire jack assy can be removed through the hole and with the attachment to the jack plate, it's an easy fix to deal with solder joints.
But that's just the way I'd do it.
David
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Nothing you do short of spending lots of money will make it cosmetically any better. I would simply make sure the jack is reinforced by patches from inside. As long as that is good and you can unplug and plug chord solidly, then you are done. Binding can be replaced but if it is attached fine i would leave alone. Look at it as just another ding and big....sorry to hear.
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Sorry for your extreme misfortune. That’s a classic you have there, and it’s well worth the time and cost to get it fixed right. There is a guy near me in the Boston area that is one of the go-to guys for those with very old and valuable guitars in need of any kind of repairs. I take my Guild American Patriarchs to him, along with all of the vintage Guilds that I unfortunately no longer own. Let us know where you are located so we can be of more help as needed.
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Whatever you do, do it soon (and I think you know this but) don't mess with in any way -- like pushing down loose parts or trying to clean it. I'd suggest you put it back in a case (if it's not too tight a fit) and leave it alone until you are ready to get it repaired. A friend of mine once backed up his car and ran over his Gypsy jazz Dupont guitar. It was in the case and was shattered into countless pieces. Because the guitar was in the case, he was able to get all the broken parts to a luthier who pieced it back together like a puzzle and returned it to its working glory. No, it didn't look exactly like it did before but with all its new battle scars it was still a very handsome guitar bringing many more years of music to its owner.
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Thanks all for the condolences and input—please keep it coming!
I'm in San Diego and would prefer someone local if possible—I can think if some options in L.A. but hate driving up there, and not sure about the S.D. Guys I know for this repair. Yeah I don’t expect it to be perfect and the guitar has lots of wear. Just want to do it right. My high E went out of tune, but once tuned all was fine. I’m very lucky as it ended up on its face on top of my pedal board. I was afraid I punched a hole in the top!
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You might check with Scott Lentz in San Marcos. He's actually a builder but I'll bet he knows repair luthiers in southern California. He personally did some work for me years ago on a ES-150 CC and it was impeccable workmanship. Check the bottom of this website for his phone number: Lentz(R) GUITAR - Instruments For The Discerning Musician
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I would make the decision as to whether aesthetics are important or if durability and functionality are the primary goals.
An internal and external patch/plate would be sufficient for the latter. The west coast costs are probably much higher than around where I live. An acceptable job around here would take about $150-200. There would be a multilaminate plate externally.
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I did think of Scott and he's done work for me in the past—last time I asked he wasn’t taking on repairs. I may try him again.
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To cut out the side and redo this requires huge time. Then you would have to add finish that would never really quite be exact. The cost of this far exceed the value of doing this even though this is a vintage guitar worth a few dollars. If this guitar was worth $4-5K then you could say yes I need to see about putting the money into the guitar. Other wise a repair like this to completely get correct is going to be in my opinion over $400 minimum. Cutting the side out and then getting a piece bent back to the correct curve is just going to take hours of work. Possible if you have a pre-bent side you save time,
I actually have a large assortment of pre-bent sides that are not attached to anything and could probably be a drop in replacement with little work. The finishing to get it correct would be the harder part at least for myself. If you want to try a piece of patch that is pre-bent that will work I can send on just send me a email for details. Actually the more I think about this I forgot I have all these extra sides that would work I am sure.
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Thanks for the detailed response. The guitar is fairly valuable as it's a rare and desirable model, but at the same time has a lot of wear. It's moot as it's not for sale (I've had many offers over the years). I'm not expecting a cosmetically perfect solution, just one that looks decent and is functional. It seems that would include some type of a cover plate. What about just screwing one on without the reinforcement on the inside? I could do that myself. BTW, the guitar is obviously plywood, and it's pretty stout. The tailpiece is held on with just 3 screws. Wouldn't the stress on a jack plate be much less? As for the binding I'd likely just put a drop or two of super glue to keep it from breaking off if it snagged something.
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Sounds like a plate cover is a good idea. It won't be the first vintage guitar with that "mod". Meanwhile, I couldn't help but wonder about a 54' Guild X-550 so I found the following. Cool guitar fer'sure... (BTW, looks like this guitar may have a plate cover too.)
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Originally Posted by archtopeddy
Here's an early clip of Dave:
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As one of the very early Guild guitars, and a very rare and desirable model, 4-5k would not at all be unreasonable, based on the condition, of course. The AP guitar in my avatar, which was a repro of a late 1950’s X-500, is virtually identical to the X-550, only in the very early days a blonde X-500 was called an X-550 to differentiate the model by color. Just some early Guild history, if anyone cares.
I’m with you on never selling. If I was lucky enough to find one and could afford it, I would be playing it this very moment. Looking forward to seeing the finished product after the successful repairs!
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Originally Posted by stringmaster
I like it that playing is more important than sentimentality for you. I just play better myself knowing that I've done what I felt was necessary to make sure my instrument has the greatest integrity. The easier it is for me to forget the instrument and make the music.
David
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Originally Posted by TruthHertz
Thanks again all!
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Reporting back on the Guild. I found a guy locally that was recommended and he had the right answers to my questions. We opted to go for a structurally sound repair with less emphasis on cosmetics--the guitar already had some stress cracks in the jack area (and as it turns out a previous glue job), and the rest of the guitar is far from mint. It made sense to me vs trying to do major surgery to make it look pretty as it wouldn't really jive with the rest of the guitar. His plan was to laminate a piece of maple on the inside, but he couldn't fit it in through the F hole, and the pickup cavities were too small under the pickup covers. Instead he was able to use a large washer to help reinforce from the inside, even though he felt the glue alone would be more than strong enogh. He made a block that matched the outside body contour and used that to pull the broken structures back out so they could be glued in place. There was a little internal damage around the kerfing that he addressed, and a new input jack was installed just in case. He also did a little binding repair and shot some tinted lacquer to kind of match the binding (which has various stages of aging all around. Total was $175 (I believe someone asked for that info). Tonight I'll be doing my 2nd gig with her and thrilled that she's back! Thanks again for the input.
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Congratulations on finding a good solution to your misfortune. The main concern is how does it sound?
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Originally Posted by snoskier63
What comes of decades of “noodling”?
Today, 06:50 PM in Improvisation