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  1. #1

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    I have decided that I'm going to try my hand at building a guitar kit. My wife is concerned about the toxic nature of finishing the guitar as we have small kids and pets. I don't really have a garage or out building to do it. So, does anyone know of a low to no toxic approach that will still be a good stain and clear coat?

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  3. #2

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    Do you have much finishing experience?

    What is the body wood...maple is really famous for being almost impossible to stain without blotching...most Gibson finishes, e.g. Cherry Red, seal the wood first then apply a toning agent in finish coats so that you "look through" to see the grain underneath. Mahogany, spruce, ash all have their own peculiarities.

    Will you apply pore sealants to the wood? More detail here would be helpful.

    There used to be a site devoted to project builders, which discussed, in quite some depth, pros/cons of different finish methods, and showed the steps. Try ReRanch.com. They also sell supplies.

    For an apt.-applied finish, I've used shellac--natural, and non-toxic, as a sealer. Made from crushed bugs, it is used on children's toys for its safety...easy to work with...dries pretty quickly...can be wiped on or brushed on. Low fumes.

    But finishing is a huge topic.
    Last edited by goldenwave77; 01-02-2017 at 04:48 PM.

  4. #3

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    My preference for a finish is Tru-Oil. It's non-toxic, easy to apply, durable, but easy to repair if it gets scratched. It doesn't provide color, other than a slight amber color. There are many options for coloring, if you want that, even fabric dye if you want heavy color.

  5. #4

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    I second Tru-oil. It's really easy to wipe on, forgiving, and gives a nice, satin finish.

    If you're looking for something a bit more hard-wearing, try General Finishes' Enduro-var. It's a water-based, brush on poly that won't kill you.

    If you are willing to deal with a slightly steeper learning curve, shellac is the ultimate non-toxic finish. You can eat the stuff. In fact, you probably have.

    As for stains, I find the Stewmac liquid stains + water fairly easy to work with.

  6. #5

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    Boiled linseed oil finishes are easy for the beginner, I am quite happy with the outcome on my maple-mahogany Tele. Done with a hand-rubbed approach using grades of sandpaper, it also fills the pores as you go. Many of Allan Holdsworth's headless guitars appear to have this finish. It is a matte look, however, and it takes a few weeks. Tru-Oil is in part BLO (basically BLO, varnish and mineral spirits, IIRC- you can find the very economical recipe online).

  7. #6

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    There are all kinds of finishing materials, and some are more toxic than others. You can spray, or wipe, or brush the finishing material onto your guitar. Some finishing material, when aerosolized and sprayed, is extremely flammable and should be applied in what is called an "explosion-proof booth", which name might give you some clues.

    Some finishing materials have been heavily regulated or mostly removed from the market over the last 70 years because of their toxicities. That also could be a clue as to whether you want to use them or not.

    So, here's my facile answer: use one of the water-soluble finishing materials discussed in Fine Woodworking's finish review articles, and put it on in thinned coats by foam brush for your first try. Apply slowly, to avoid bubbles, thin the finish as much as you can (about 20% for most of them, i.e., add 20 cc's of water for every 100 cc's of finish), and take your time.

    I've had nice results with thinned General Finishes "High Performance Polyurethane Water Based Topcoat" applied with foam brushes.

  8. #7

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    I like Tru oil. I don't think that it is completely non toxic, although it probably has very low levels of VOC's. However, I suggest doing some research for the applicability of the right kind of finish for an archtop. Tru oil might work, but it would be good to know what others use for such a specific application. I have only used it on solid bodies and necks. I am sure that there are some that would argue the importance of the type of finish for a solid body guitar as it relates to tone, but I don't drill down that far on mine.

  9. #8

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    Shellac is a good choice but be sure to use grain alcohol to dissolve fresh shellac flakes. Wood alcohol works fine but is slightly toxic due to things that are added to it (to keep you from drinking the stuff). A shellac finish feels great to the touch but it is easily damaged by alcohol. For a more durable finish, I use Target EM 2000 hybrid varnish over a shellac sealer. The Target is waterborne finish but you need to vent well as it is a eye irritant but has almost no smell. The Target is rated for outdoor use and is very hard. It can be buffed to a high gloss. Always practice on some scrap first with any new type of finish you try.

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by goldenwave77
    Do you have much finishing experience?

    What is the body wood...maple is really famous for being almost impossible to stain without blotching...most Gibson finishes, e.g. Cherry Red, seal the wood first then apply a toning agent in finish coats so that you "look through" to see the grain underneath. Mahogany, spruce, ash all have their own peculiarities.

    Will you apply pore sealants to the wood? More detail here would be helpful.

    There used to be a site devoted to project builders, which discussed, in quite some depth, pros/cons of different finish methods, and showed the steps. Try ReRanch.com. They also sell supplies.

    For an apt.-applied finish, I've used shellac--natural, and non-toxic, as a sealer. Made from crushed bugs, it is used on children's toys for its safety...easy to work with...dries pretty quickly...can be wiped on or brushed on. Low fumes.

    But finishing is a huge topic.
    I have no experience with finishing. The kit that I'm thinking about is a basswood. It's basically a Godin 5th Ave in looks. So, I'm not sure if that will need a grain filler or not. I am not opposed to getting the ES335 style kit either, which, I believe, is maple.
    I'm thinking that the Tru-Oil route wouldn't be bad. I like an amber tone on a guitar.
    some holiday madness to settle down. I have always wanted to try to build a kit. Funny, my wife is totally on board. Yet, she would give me the evil eye if I just went and bought another guitar.

  11. #10

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    Matt Cushman's note that a "dry run" with the same type of wood, being a good idea...is very, very wise.

    He's also right about shellac and alcohol solvency....the classic bad idea is an instrument that is used to play in bars or nightclubs..."Wow, that's a great looking 335 you have there...whoops-- sorry I spilled that vodka martini...let me just wipe it off...well it did look good...oh damn...I'm sorry", etc, etc.

    I wonder if you could beg, borrow or steal some scrap pieces of similar wood from the kit vendors...they might have scrap pieces that you tell you a lot, about different finish attempts.

    (I jokingly believe ALL young children should be required to attempt some wood finishing at some pt. in their life. They would find out--it is not easy, it takes a bit of work...and it is easy to screw up..."So get your feet off my furniture!...you whippersnapper, you.")

    Don't be discouraged, but be realistic. There was a reason that spray-applied lacquer became dominant in the furniture industry...and for musical instruments. But lacquer in not even allowed in some places anymore...and "lacquer thinner" or remover....LIQUID LEUKEMIA....very, very mean stuff. My gf used to use "Goo Be Gone" all the time, till I clued her in.

    A lot of the water-based stuff is really pretty good. It's what Taylor guitars use these days.

    But hey isn't Milwaukee, Harley country? Ask around, there might be some automotive/biker enthusiasts who have access to spray gear, or facilities.
    Last edited by goldenwave77; 01-21-2017 at 08:34 AM.

  12. #11

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    Be careful with rag storage & disposal if you use boiled linseed oil as it has catalysts which generate heat - if you throw a wet & wadded up rag into the trash you could have a fire. There are special containers for storing the rags.

    Tru-Oil is easy to use, the trick is to put it on as thin as possible. Rub some on then rub it off just barely wetting the surface, put it on thick and you'll be waiting weeks or months for it to dry. 2 or 3 super thin layers can be applied daily and you build up a nice coat over a week. Tru-Oil is great for finishing necks.

    Lacquer has solvents that will damage your lungs if you don't burst into flames while spraying it (the solvents are extremely flammable). Spraying outside is OK, but you would have to leave the guitar outside until the lacquer dries as the flammable solvents will be an issue while drying.

    Matt C mentioned a safer water based finish, another to look at is KTM 9 sold by LMII.

    Water-based finish (KTM)

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by miken
    I have no experience with finishing. The kit that I'm thinking about is a basswood. It's basically a Godin 5th Ave in looks. So, I'm not sure if that will need a grain filler or not. I am not opposed to getting the ES335 style kit either, which, I believe, is maple.
    I'm thinking that the Tru-Oil route wouldn't be bad. I like an amber tone on a guitar.
    some holiday madness to settle down. I have always wanted to try to build a kit. Funny, my wife is totally on board. Yet, she would give me the evil eye if I just went and bought another guitar.
    I've done a fair amount of woodworking from high end speaker towers through kitchen cabinets and such. Oil-based finishes are toxic only in the liquid state and their fumes. Once cured they're quite safe.

    And my pro portrait Studio of 38 years once did a lot of lacquer of prints. Several hours a day several days a week. We have an excellent custom built spray-booth in the studio with a high-speed fireproof fan. The setup evacuates the room air in that small room a couple times a minute. We aren't even required to have explosion proof lights because of the incredible air evac. (Built to my specs ... I don't like dangerous fumes!)

    We rarely lacquer a print anymore but I've used the booth to lacquer or paint small cabinets and other woodworking projects.

    Outside of that I only use waterborne finishes. You still want good airflow and for some a particular type mask is still recommended during applications. There's some excellent waterborne finishes available now.

    Stumbling fingers still need love ...

  14. #13

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    For a first guitar you may want to use a Tru oil type of wipe on finish. The waterborne finish is a long and rather complicated process but it gives you great results when used on dyed wood. If you have good looking maple it is worth the effort to bring out the figure. A transparent sunburst is one of the more difficult finishes to apply. There are lots of ways to screw it up. Here is a kit I built recently. This is trans tint water based dye under blond shellac under Target EM 2000. It takes me a couple of weeks to do a finish like this.
    Attached Images Attached Images Toxicity of Guitar Finishing Material-p1010028-jpg 

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by miken
    I have no experience with finishing. The kit that I'm thinking about is a basswood. It's basically a Godin 5th Ave in looks. So, I'm not sure if that will need a grain filler or not. I am not opposed to getting the ES335 style kit either, which, I believe, is maple.
    I'm thinking that the Tru-Oil route wouldn't be bad. I like an amber tone on a guitar.
    some holiday madness to settle down. I have always wanted to try to build a kit. Funny, my wife is totally on board. Yet, she would give me the evil eye if I just went and bought another guitar.
    I'd love to know what specific kit you are working on.

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Cushman
    For a first guitar you may want to use a Tru oil type of wipe on finish. The waterborne finish is a long and rather complicated process but it gives you great results when used on dyed wood. If you have good looking maple it is worth the effort to bring out the figure. A transparent sunburst is one of the more difficult finishes to apply. There are lots of ways to screw it up. Here is a kit I built recently. This is trans tint water based dye under blond shellac under Target EM 2000. It takes me a couple of weeks to do a finish like this.
    All very true. The old-style lacquer can be awfully fast once you know what you're doing and have a decent setup to work in. Both oil and water-based "varnish" type finishes require a LOT more drying time, sanding between coats, and fussing.

    And sunbursts ... not without some practice runs!

    Which is the main thing with any finishing. Practice on the wood to be used until you know what works and can do it without (huge) fear while working. If you're terrified of what might happen ... it will.

    That said, some practice and soon it's just a thing to do.

    Stumbling fingers still need love ...

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Cushman
    For a first guitar you may want to use a Tru oil type of wipe on finish. The waterborne finish is a long and rather complicated process but it gives you great results when used on dyed wood. If you have good looking maple it is worth the effort to bring out the figure. A transparent sunburst is one of the more difficult finishes to apply. There are lots of ways to screw it up. Here is a kit I built recently. This is trans tint water based dye under blond shellac under Target EM 2000. It takes me a couple of weeks to do a finish like this.
    That link is a good place to spend some time. I'll be looking through everything there later.

    The only thing I wouldn't agree with is the way they phrase the color difference between water and solvent finishes. The fact is the water-based finishes aren't more blue, they are totally neutral. The solvent finishes are more or less yellow/amber.

    Which seems a semantic thing until you start working with them. Get your wood to the tint you like, the water-based finishes won't change anything. The solvent based finishes will take it "warmer". So you can color to your hearts content and end up exactly where you were.

    At least ... with all my finishing work.

    One thing for a soft deep modest gloss ... use several coats of matching water-based sanding sealer without sanding, just to build depth of finish. Then sand smooth with waterproof sand paper going up to 800 in small increments.

    Now lay on 3 sets of finish, each two coats then sand to 800. Then a final thin coat buffed to desired lustre. This takes a couple weeks but gives a very deep and very smooth look ... very much like after 8 clear coats of solvent-based lacquer.

    And it's a very forgiving process.
    Quote Originally Posted by MaxTwang
    Be careful with rag storage & disposal if you use boiled linseed oil as it has catalysts which generate heat - if you throw a wet & wadded up rag into the trash you could have a fire. There are special containers for storing the rags.

    Tru-Oil is easy to use, the trick is to put it on as thin as possible. Rub some on then rub it off just barely wetting the surface, put it on thick and you'll be waiting weeks or months for it to dry. 2 or 3 super thin layers can be applied daily and you build up a nice coat over a week. Tru-Oil is great for finishing necks.

    Lacquer has solvents that will damage your lungs if you don't burst into flames while spraying it (the solvents are extremely flammable). Spraying outside is OK, but you would have to leave the guitar outside until the lacquer dries as the flammable solvents will be an issue while drying.

    Matt C mentioned a safer water based finish, another to look at is KTM 9 sold by LMII.

    Water-based finish (KTM)

    Stumbling fingers still need love ...

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxTwang

    Tru-Oil is easy to use, the trick is to put it on as thin as possible. Rub some on then rub it off just barely wetting the surface, put it on thick and you'll be waiting weeks or months for it to dry. 2 or 3 super thin layers can be applied daily and you build up a nice coat over a week. Tru-Oil is great for finishing necks.
    I can concur how great Tru Oil is if you are not equipped to spray lacquer like me in a 4 1/2 flat by minus 15 celsius.
    Thin layer rubbing with a finger, 3M 0000 synthetic pad light sanding between daily layers and so far after a week a nice shiny look.
    I might dilute the Tru oil on the last layer using Mineral Spirit and after curing, polish with some Meguiar paste to get a nice glossy look. I will try to match the glossy look of my lacquer finished neck from Warmoth.

  19. #18

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    Discover by chance lately that for those of us using their bare finger to rub Tru Oil, having a Purell sanitizer dispenser close by is very handy.
    Don't know what chemical exactly is in it that breaks it (alcohol?) in any case it cleans fast the stickiness on the fingers is easy to press out from the dispenser and doesn't stink like Mineral Spirit...

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by miken
    I have no experience with finishing. The kit that I'm thinking about is a basswood. It's basically a Godin 5th Ave in looks. So, I'm not sure if that will need a grain filler or not. I am not opposed to getting the ES335 style kit either, which, I believe, is maple.
    I'm thinking that the Tru-Oil route wouldn't be bad. I like an amber tone on a guitar.
    some holiday madness to settle down. I have always wanted to try to build a kit. Funny, my wife is totally on board. Yet, she would give me the evil eye if I just went and bought another guitar.
    I am thinking (I think) about that same kit. No cutaway, one P90?