Replacing Friction-Fit Strap Button?

**lawson-stone** · 03-19-2016, 03:11 PM

On a guitar, like older ES175's, that have the friction-fit strap button, is there a reversible, non-damaging way to put a fixed strap button on there in place of the friction fit one?

**lammie200** · 03-19-2016, 03:18 PM

You could probably use a toggle bolt - the kind with the spring expanding nut.

**lawson-stone** · 03-19-2016, 03:35 PM

Originally Posted by lammie200

You could probably use a toggle bolt - the kind with the spring expanding nut.

Great Minds! That's exactly what I was thinking of, but I couldn't remember what it was called. Like the fasteners sometimes used in drywall that lodge against the inside and expand, allowing you to tighten the screw.

I can see I need to head to Lowes or Home Depo, unless some guitar supply company has come up with a more elegant solution. Stew-Mac strangely enough has nothing. I think of them coming up with a "Lutherie" related rig for every problem.

**Doctor Jeff** · 03-19-2016, 05:05 PM

Just curious why you'd want to replace it...you can get nicer buttons like brushed nickel, antique brass, wood, ivoroid, etc it you want something better looking. If the friction fit is not ideal, one trick is to get some resin and put it on the taper.

I personally would never glue it and would not replace it on a nice instrument in a way that would require permanent modifications. JMO of course, YMMV.

**citizenk74** · 03-19-2016, 06:09 PM

My '45 Epiphone Zenith won't fit in its hardshell case with the endpin in place, so it stays stuck in its' strap coiled in the case when not in use, where it stays in place nicely. The other end of the strap is of course strap-locked.

**lawson-stone** · 03-19-2016, 08:30 PM

Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff

Just curious why you'd want to replace it...you can get nicer buttons like brushed nickel, antique brass, wood, ivoroid, etc it you want something better looking. If the friction fit is not ideal, one trick is to get some resin and put it on the taper.

I personally would never glue it and would not replace it on a nice instrument in a way that would require permanent modifications. JMO of course, YMMV.

Exactly. That's why I stated I wanted a reversible solution.

**Matt Cushman** · 03-19-2016, 08:50 PM

Even if you use glue to fix the pin in place it can still be removed without damage to the instrument. It just becomes more difficult. The pin can be cut off and drilled out if the need arises. I have seen a few that were glued in. I don't recommend it but it can be reversed.

**neatomic** · 03-19-2016, 09:31 PM

no way i'd toggle bolt it...

a bit of beeswax, acts like glue but can be undone with a little gentle heat..(like from a blow dryer)..and harmless to you and the guitar

cheers

**lawson-stone** · 03-19-2016, 10:17 PM

I'm actually thinking about a simple nylon or plastic drywall anchor that can be squeezed into the hole, and then I can seat a regular strap button screw into the wall anchor. I will try the beeswax first... but I don't think the bees are going to like it!

**neatomic** · 03-19-2016, 11:09 PM

yes this larrivee item looks good...

tho how you'd get it into an archtop is beyond me!! hah

append...not beyond, but difficult..coathanger through pickup (or maybe even f) hole

cheers

**rabbit** · 03-19-2016, 11:14 PM

I was too dumb to click on the image when I was on the Larrivee site:
it requires a 15/32" or 1/2" hole. Not what was asked for, sorry.

neatomic,

I just expect the guitar mechanic to work miracles!

But of course, you're right.

**neatomic** · 03-19-2016, 11:24 PM

no, but good little item to be made aware of!!

something to keep in mind...thanks

cheers

**MaxTwang** · 03-20-2016, 01:17 AM

Originally Posted by neatomic

yes this larrivee item looks good...

tho how you'd get it into an archtop is beyond me!! hah

append...not beyond, but difficult..coathanger through pickup (or maybe even f) hole

cheers

Those prongs on the Tee Nut will do some damage!

**lammie200** · 03-20-2016, 01:21 AM

Originally Posted by MaxTwang

Those prongs on the Tee Nut will do some damage!

That's why I recommended something like a spring loaded toggle nut. Alternatively some friction tape or even electrical tape might sung up the original pin enough to work.

**rabbit** · 03-20-2016, 06:06 AM

How about:

Obtain an endpin of the same shape as in the original post, made of wood for workability.

Drill the piece lengthwise for a pilot hole sized for a sufficiently long woodscrew you've already selected.

Cut the endpin lengthwise as finely as possible from the end of the cone to the shoulder (or boss)
that meets the exterior surface.

Carefully tighten screw with endpin in guitar. Tines will expand outward from pressure of woodscrew
and secure endpin.

Various adjustments & refinements may be necessary or desirable: roughening the surface of
the shaft for traction; resizing the pilot hole; a larger diameter hole through the head than the shaft.

Several days later, the project is finished!

It's a lot of work being this mad.

**dingusmingus** · 03-20-2016, 08:15 AM

Originally Posted by Matt Cushman

Even if you use glue to fix the pin in place it can still be removed without damage to the instrument. It just becomes more difficult. The pin can be cut off and drilled out if the need arises. I have seen a few that were glued in. I don't recommend it but it can be reversed.

Yep, and hot hide glue is reversible with heat. It's used by instrument makers in a number of applications for that reason.

**lawson-stone** · 03-20-2016, 08:26 AM

Thanks for all these suggestions! I actually love the friction-fit end-pin, so I'm thinking about just thickening it with resin or masking tape.

**Matt Cushman** · 03-20-2016, 09:29 AM

The friction fit endpin is still the standard on mandolins so I see this problem a lot. They work OK when the fit is good but with age they can get loose. Sometimes a new pin will be all that is needed to get a good tight fit. The hole can be built up and re reamed if a new pin is too loose. I find that ebony grips the best. The fit is the key here. If the pin is to big for the hole that can be a problem, if the pin is accidentally struck and driven in to the endblock. The pin is like a wedge and can actually split the endblock. That is why a good fit is so important. I mentioned gluing because players do this out of frustration usually on lower end instruments. And I have had to remove a few in the past. I always wondered why they were not just glued in in the first place? After all how often do you need to remove the tailpiece?