The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    I'm a believer in doing your own setups. Also, learning how to solder and swapping electronics out. It's rewarding and the self sufficiency leads to a better playing and sounding guitar that you'll want to spend more time with. Of course, you need a place to work, tools, and some mechanical ability. That and the time. And while I am, in fact, pretty bad at the mechanical part I still find it enjoyable and rewarding. So..

    The action sucked. Bridge height was still way too high but the low E was buzzing out. Applying a fret rocker, an inexpensive chunk of metal with straight edges of various lengths on it, it was apparent that I had some high frets. To be honest I wasn't sure if fixing this would fix the action but I knew it was something that needed to be addressed regardless. So, since I haven't done anything to ill advised in some time, I decided it was time to do my own fret leveling.

    I've done my own setups for awhile. Not like they're very difficult if you trust yourself to adjust a truss rod. Then I started making my own nuts. After many throw aways they usually come out OK now. Always reassuring to know that when you mess one up you can toss it and start over. Frets were another matter. I did a few sharp fret ends but that was it. I knew fret leveling was the next step in the linear progression to the satisfaction that comes from doing all things amateur tech. I also knew that I could actually damage a guitar now. Oh well.. part of the joy of the $1000 Chinese Archtop. Not like it's a 30's L5.

    I'll spare you the steps. Plenty of information online. Just a few comments.

    - Had some things already but did require some new tools: Slotted ruler to make sure the neck was straight, a pricey fret crowning tool, and other stuff.
    - Glad I used the Dia-Sharp diamond steel plate (fine grit) instead of using something with sandpaper for the major fret leveling part. Had one for knife and chisel sharpening already and sandpaper cuts too fast for someone that is getting a feel for the job.
    - The pricey curved crowning tool was worth it
    - Took out tool marks with 500 and 1000 grit sandpaper. Then used a Dremel with a felt wheel and some very fine automotive scratch remover. That worked really well giving a nice mirror finish on the frets.
    - There are now a few new marks on the fretboard. Next time I will double tape.

    So.. in the end I had more polished frets, level frets, and all of my action problems went away. Now I can get the strings right down on the deck if I want. And the guitar, while I may have taken years off the frets, seems to be fine and it's actually a pleasure to play.

    DIY Fret Leveling-1-imgp4546-jpgDIY Fret Leveling-1-imgp4538-jpg
    Last edited by Spook410; 09-05-2015 at 01:09 AM.

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  3. #2

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    Great job Spook.

    I also did my own leveling on a guitar, but i was less adventurous than you and bought this.

    It really works well and is worth the asking price imo.


  4. #3

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    BTW, i don't know if it was for one of your Chinese archtops, but i am still pleasantly surprised that the frets on my Yunzhi are just pe-r-fe-ct, leveled and dressed, from their factory.

    I got really lucky on this one, i guess.

  5. #4

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    Get some fingerboard guards for crown filing & buffing with the Dremel. I still tape the fingerboard and use these for extra protection. The Dremel will heat these up which can damage a finished maple fingerboard, so I put tape on one side for a little extra insulation and check the temp between frets.


    DIY Fret Leveling-stewmac_fingerboard_guards-jpg

    StewMac Fingerboard Guards | stewmac.com

  6. #5

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    I do my own set ups and electronics but leave the fret work to an expert. I have to say, my only experience of plec-ing was on the Slaman in my avatar which I acquired a few years ago shortly after the previous owner had it plec'd. It plays beautifully, plays in tune all over the neck, and the action will literally go as low as you need. In fact lower than I need, and I am a low action fan.

  7. #6

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    Since having a few guitars plecced, I bought the tools and started doing my own fret work, incl refretting. The main motivator was the £300-ish refret cost in London, for a bound neck.

    My experience is that the same low action ( down to 1mm top E at 12th) can be achieved with careful handwork. Of course, the plec machine saves time - and achieves beautifully rounded fret ends, which are the hardest part with hand work.

  8. #7

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    Nice moves Spook. Remember, file a little-check twice.

    I'm gonna blurt on, apologies. I'm not trying to detract or de-rail you thread. I hope this is ok.


    Quote Originally Posted by Franz 1997
    The main motivator was the £300-ish refret cost in London, for a bound neck.
    !YIKES! £300..... I should move back!

    Is that with or without binding nibs?

    Fretting over binding is preferable for the gigging guitar but the investment grade vintage nibbed fingerboards add value (and arse -ache).

    DIY Fret Leveling-img_0452-478x640-jpg
    You have to be aware of varying fret slot widths. If you go in with a monster tang you'll induce a back bow and arse-ache.

    DIY Fret Leveling-img_0453-640x478-jpg
    Grinding your tang to thinner widths

    DIY Fret Leveling-img_0454-640x478-jpg
    And checking widths against gaps. You still need 'bite', but not too much. Note the fret slot measurements on the paper.

    This story will burn your bonce....

    The above reconditioned finger board and refret on a 70's Fender Jap acoustic, plus...

    DIY Fret Leveling-img_0368-640x478-jpg
    Knackered screw holes in tired mahogany

    DIY Fret Leveling-img_0358-640x478-jpg
    Abused bridge with flat radius

    DIY Fret Leveling-img_0539-640x478-jpg
    Loose bracing

    DIY Fret Leveling-img_0370-640x478-jpg
    An OMG nut

    DIY Fret Leveling-img_0429-640x478-jpg
    F'upped machine heads

    DIY Fret Leveling-img_0487-640x478-jpg
    30 years of tobacco crud

    DIY Fret Leveling-img_0528-640x478-jpg
    Raised tongue

    Not to mention the top had coppled and needed re-hydration.

    How much did I charge?

    £100 plus beer from the owner at any time we are in the pub together.

    I renovated a warped Ibanez for a bottle of Talisker!

    I guess if I move back to London I'll end up being an alcoholic....

    Lol.

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzbow

    DIY Fret Leveling-img_0370-640x478-jpg
    An OMG nut

    Lol.
    Yes, a unique mod. The centre section between both E strings was filed down and a bone insert nailed and glued!

    Interesting, the detail and fine working is good, why not put a whole bone nut in??

    Do you think there's a market for this?

    Lol.

  10. #9

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    When levelling and dressing frets I do a slight fall off from the 14th fret upwards gives a super low action with no chance of buzz.

    DIY Fret Leveling-fret-6-jpg

    You need to be careful using power tools for polishing the frets to much heat build up and the frets can lift, I prefer to hand polish and buff the frets.
    Last edited by Para; 09-06-2015 at 05:41 AM.

  11. #10

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    The Katana thingumy looks like a whole lot of fuss.

    How would you crown the frets?

    IMO and what I was taught was to file the frets parallel to the truss rod and not the string.

    There's a whole lot of math to do with cylinders, string path and actual string action that hurts my brain on a Sunday morning.



    This follows the string path.

    I guess when you are dealing with .001" discrepancies it doesn't matter.

    I am a follower of the fret rocker and spot filing method. You don't have to strap your guitar to avoid and flex.

    Although I do this in some instances...

    DIY Fret Leveling-sdc11740-640x480-jpg

    This works providing you don't apply too much pressure when sanding the fret tops.

  12. #11

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    Jazzbow I think that Katana is a diamond fret crowning file not for levelling.

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Para
    Jazzbow I think that Katana is a diamond fret crowning file not for levelling.
    "RECTIFY Master® - The original fret leveling system made in Japan"

    "Katana is a tool for fret leveling or fretboard leveling under real strings tension on a straighten or bowed neck"

    I'm positive it's primarily created for FRET LEVELLING.

    PS: The German-made machine used for levelling, crowning and nut cutting's called "PLEK".

    Home - Plek

    HTH,
    Last edited by LtKojak; 09-06-2015 at 09:14 AM.

  14. #13

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    When using the fret rocker and finding that it rocks over a high fret, push down and see if the rocking stops. If it does that fret is loose and needs to be glued down with super glue. If it is not glued down it will always pop back up after leveling and will still be too high.

    I sometimes do my own work, but usually have a tech work on my guitars. He glues all the frets down before a fret leveling just to make sure that they are all down and will stay down.

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slide
    (I) have a tech work on my guitars. He glues all the frets down before a fret leveling just to make sure that they are all down and will stay down.
    Gluing frets fills up any voids within the neck. Some thoughts on tone sapping pockets, on the flip side solid means better frequency response. I dunno.

    There was a time in the 70's, when older guitars were thought as worn out and not collectable. Refrets consisted of widening fret slots and then using epoxy glue to fit new frets. I think this was mostly done with Fenders due to the frets being pulled in sideways and therefore chewing up the fingerboard when nipping them out. When removing the older vintage Fender frets you must always knock them out sideways!

  16. #15
    So.. some things I think I will do differently on the next one:

    - Metal guards in addition to tape look like a great idea.
    - Watch for heat build up using a dremel (ordered some micro sandpapers for polishing.. don't like steel wool). Pity. The dremel was so easy and fast.

    One thing I'm a bit confused on is gluing frets. If you use a cyanoacrylate (super glue) how is that fret ever going to come out if the guitar needs to have the frets replaced? I use a very small spot of this to hold a nut in but only enough where a tap will remove the nut. Also, how do you lift a fret to get the glue in? Just push up on the side and use a very thin glue to run in the slot?

    And it's interesting. On this board nobody corrects you when you say 'plec' instead of the correct 'plek'.

  17. #16

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    "One thing I'm a bit confused on is gluing frets. If you use a cyanoacrylate (super glue) how is that fret ever going to come out if the guitar needs to have the frets replaced?"

    I believe my tech heats the glued in frets with a soldering iron before removing them.

  18. #17

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    Here's a question on fret leveling. If you have a radiused fret board and you level the frets relative to one another using the Katana or for that matter the stewmac leveling tool, the frets will be flat. How do you get the radius back. Wouldn't you need a leveling tool that is radiused for your fret board(10", 12" etc.)? I hope I'm being clear.

    thanks
    edh

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spook410
    One thing I'm a bit confused on is gluing frets. If you use a cyanoacrylate (super glue) how is that fret ever going to come out if the guitar needs to have the frets replaced? I use a very small spot of this to hold a nut in but only enough where a tap will remove the nut.

    Check this out mate

    Super glue your frets for better tone! | stewmac.com



    Quote Originally Posted by Spook410
    Also, how do you lift a fret to get the glue in? Just push up on the side and use a very thin glue to run in the slot?
    And this also

    DIY Fret Leveling-00028refret10-jpg

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by edh
    Here's a question on fret leveling. If you have a radiused fret board and you level the frets relative to one another using the Katana or for that matter the stewmac leveling tool, the frets will be flat. How do you get the radius back. Wouldn't you need a leveling tool that is radiused for your fret board(10", 12" etc.)? I hope I'm being clear.

    thanks
    edh


    This answers a lot of questions.

    :-D

  21. #20

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    This is the Katana fret leveller.


    This is the Katana fret crowning file.


    I'm lazy these days if the fretboard is not a compound radius I use a radius beam to level and I like to crown the frets with traditional fret files, takes longer but I think it gives more control with the crowning, I also polish and buff the frets by hand.

  22. #21

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    I have the little bone too, and as much as i am glad i bought the katana, i really regret i bought the little bone because its angle won't work with smaller than medium jumbo frets, and for what it is, it is expensive.

    After using the katana, i crowned my frets mainly by hand (no playing for two days after, lol), and dressed them with Stewmac fret files.

    Anyway, for just a few high frets, of course, the katana is out of proportion, imo, a file is better as well as constant checking while filing.

    Me too, Jazzbow, i didn't fall into the Stewmac fret-rocker trap (tries to hide pride) and after reflexion it was obvious that those are one of the few Stewmac items that one can make oneself, a really straight steel thick "ruler", a bit of coarse measuring, a metal saw, et voilà ! A nice fret-rockers set !

    edit: oops, you actually have a fret rocker ! errmmm (cough) ... well, maybe it's a nice add-on to an order, but just ordering in yens from Japan with shipping and it's around 40 bucks, a bit expensive for me for what it is.
    Last edited by xuoham; 09-07-2015 at 08:57 AM.

  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by xuoham
    Me too, Jazzbow, i didn't fall into the Stewmac fret-rocker trap


    edit: oops, you actually have a fret rocker ! errmmm (cough) ... well, maybe it's a nice add-on to an order, but just ordering in yens from Japan with shipping and it's around 40 bucks, a bit expensive for me for what it is.
    Lol..

    For me the fret rocker (FR) is a great all in one tool. I could've got someone to machine some bits but I was ordering stuff from stewmac at the time they just brought the FR onto the market. Besides it has a handy hole in the middle for hanging onto 'the wall of tool' in my small workshop.

    As for tools for the job-back in the day I was taught to use a whetstone to level frets! OMG!

    DIY Fret Leveling-sdc10579-640x427-jpg
    Customising existing tools as well, this is my trusty fret nipper I ground down to a curve, no specialist tools were available. In fact the only thing I bought back then (1989) that was purposely made for guitar teching was a fret file (which I still have).

    All these bits you can get now does seem like money for old rope but some pieces make sense for their practicality.

    For instance, I was taught to make a fret bending block for pre-bending new frets before whacking them into an unsuspecting fingerboard (F/B). So you were refretting a guitar with 9" radii F/B that needed frets bent at a tighter radius, say 7.5". So with a compass and pencil set to 7.5" circumference you would mark up a piece of Maple 4"x3"x1" and cut out the radii. Then on the face of the 1" thickness you would cut a slot for the fret tang to seat in and then lightly tap the fret wire around the 7.5" radius and then nip it out ready for the refret. Or you could bend the fretwire into the desired radii with your nippers but this could distort the wire.
    Arse-ache mate....

    Then stewmac bring out the fretbender.....

    DIY Fret Leveling-img_0457-640x478-jpg
    I can bend that there fret wire in seconds!

    Woo hoo!

    More time saved to spend on social media.

    Yayyy...oh.

    Lol.

  24. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by edh
    Here's a question on fret leveling. If you have a radiused fret board and you level the frets relative to one another using the Katana or for that matter the stewmac leveling tool, the frets will be flat. How do you get the radius back. Wouldn't you need a leveling tool that is radiused for your fret board(10", 12" etc.)? I hope I'm being clear.

    thanks
    edh
    If you look to the right on that stack-o-tools I posted above you'll see a wood block with a 10" and 12" radius. Used with stick on sandpaper to get the radius right after leveling with the diamond steel block.

  25. #24
    These guys have many inexpensive rulers and rockers made out of aluminum. Not as nice as the steel Stewmac stuff but good enough for what I'm doing right now.

    UAAC - United Appalachian Aluminum Company-Fret Rockers

    Jazzbow - That Stewmac article on gluing answered many questions. Thanks.

  26. #25

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    @Spook or Jazzbow, wouldn't it be easier to level the frets with a radiused tool to begin with?

    thanks in advance for the info.
    edh