Boutique Guitars

**mydoglikessalsa** · 03-12-2009, 10:03 AM

He does really eat salsa. In fact, back when we lived in Germany we would take him to bars, and unattended Bloody Marys were fair game as far as he could tell.

**TieDyedDevil** · 03-12-2009, 12:20 PM

Here's my story. I have two luthier-built guitars made by Saul Koll of Portland, OR. Both guitars were built from scratch to meet my requirements.

The important thing is to work up the right set of requirements. There are two ways you could go about this. One is to pick some unique combination of attributes from a list, cross your fingers, and hope it turns out OK. The other is to start with a guitar that's already very close to your ideal and attempt to improve upon its minor shortcomings. I took the latter approach.

I had a Gibson ES-346 that was very nearly perfect. The body and neck size and shape felt very comfortable and natural. I had gone through a lot of off-the-shelf guitars on the way to the ES-346. I still had several other guitars at the time I bought the ES-346; for years I played only the ES-346.

There were some very minor things that bothered me about the ES-346. The tuning keys were oddly positioned, making use of a string winder difficult. (Hey, I told you they were minor issues, didn't I?) Despite the chambered construction of the ES-346, it still sounded more "stringy" than "woody". The ES-346 was a bit darker-sounding than I liked. The ES-346 was just a tiny bit neck-heavy. Finally, I really wanted a bit more acoustic liveliness in order to get more interaction between the guitar and amp at reasonable (i.e. not rock `n roll) volumes.

I took the ES-346 to Saul Koll along with my wish list. He addressed the most important issue - the acoustic liveliness - with a construction technique that's a cross between a true hollowbody guitar and a semi-hollow guitar. My Koll guitars have a carved top and back, bent sides, and a pair of internal rails rather than a center block. The back is completely free to vibrate, being fixed only at the guitar's sides.

I thought long and hard about having a guitar built for me. It took me about two years from the first glimmer of the idea to the point where I approached Saul Koll. During that time I did a lot of research into both independent luthiers and the custom shops of the large manufacturers. I chose Saul to build my guitar because he had a proven track record of building completely custom designs (in addition to his own designs), and because he has a stellar reputation among the local musicians that I talked to about having guitars built. (This was back in late 2002. Saul's reputation has expanded beyond the local/regional market since then.)

Someone made a comment regarding the relatively low cost of a luthier-built guitar. When I investigated the custom shops of the large manufacturers, I found that it would have cost me at least $8,000 for a minimally-customized guitar. By minimally-customized I mean: completely standard design with choice of wood, finish and hardware. Any significant customization raised the price dramatically. A from-scratch design was completely out of the question: one manufacturer simply was not interested (they didn't want to create new tooling); another would do the work, but at a price that made $8,000 seem like a bargain.

Each of my Koll instruments set me back slightly more than a third of the cost of a "basic" minimally-customized custom-shop guitar. The Kolls are an entirely new design; not a specially-decorated version of a production guitar. Saul's attention to detail puts the big manufacturers to shame. The appointments on Saul's guitars (for example: multi-layer bindings and ebony pickguard and headstock veneer) are typical of much more expensive production instruments.

A fully-custom guitar is not for the impatient. My two Koll guitars took 18 months and 39 months from order to delivery. Many guitarists I know would change their minds about their "ideal" guitar dozens of times during that period.

In summary: I determined exactly what I wanted in terms of the physical, acoustical and electrical attributes of my instrument going before approaching a builder. I selected a builder with a proven track record of doing a good job on a wide range of fully-custom designs. I was willing to defer design details (in particular: the internal construction) to the builder in order to meet my requirements. And I was willing to wait.

The result is that I now have two guitars which are perfect for me, purchased at a cost which is a bargain by any standard.

**derek** · 03-12-2009, 02:29 PM

Originally Posted by TieDyedDevil

Here's my story. I have two luthier-built guitars made by Saul Koll of Portland, OR. Both guitars were built from scratch to meet my requirements.

The important thing is to work up the right set of requirements. There are two ways you could go about this. One is to pick some unique combination of attributes from a list, cross your fingers, and hope it turns out OK. The other is to start with a guitar that's already very close to your ideal and attempt to improve upon its minor shortcomings. I took the latter approach.

I had a Gibson ES-346 that was very nearly perfect. The body and neck size and shape felt very comfortable and natural. I had gone through a lot of off-the-shelf guitars on the way to the ES-346. I still had several other guitars at the time I bought the ES-346; for years I played only the ES-346.

There were some very minor things that bothered me about the ES-346. The tuning keys were oddly positioned, making use of a string winder difficult. (Hey, I told you they were minor issues, didn't I?) Despite the chambered construction of the ES-346, it still sounded more "stringy" than "woody". The ES-346 was a bit darker-sounding than I liked. The ES-346 was just a tiny bit neck-heavy. Finally, I really wanted a bit more acoustic liveliness in order to get more interaction between the guitar and amp at reasonable (i.e. not rock `n roll) volumes.

I took the ES-346 to Saul Koll along with my wish list. He addressed the most important issue - the acoustic liveliness - with a construction technique that's a cross between a true hollowbody guitar and a semi-hollow guitar. My Koll guitars have a carved top and back, bent sides, and a pair of internal rails rather than a center block. The back is completely free to vibrate, being fixed only at the guitar's sides.

I thought long and hard about having a guitar built for me. It took me about two years from the first glimmer of the idea to the point where I approached Saul Koll. During that time I did a lot of research into both independent luthiers and the custom shops of the large manufacturers. I chose Saul to build my guitar because he had a proven track record of building completely custom designs (in addition to his own designs), and because he has a stellar reputation among the local musicians that I talked to about having guitars built. (This was back in late 2002. Saul's reputation has expanded beyond the local/regional market since then.)

Someone made a comment regarding the relatively low cost of a luthier-built guitar. When I investigated the custom shops of the large manufacturers, I found that it would have cost me at least $8,000 for a minimally-customized guitar. By minimally-customized I mean: completely standard design with choice of wood, finish and hardware. Any significant customization raised the price dramatically. A from-scratch design was completely out of the question: one manufacturer simply was not interested (they didn't want to create new tooling); another would do the work, but at a price that made $8,000 seem like a bargain.

Each of my Koll instruments set me back slightly more than a third of the cost of a "basic" minimally-customized custom-shop guitar. The Kolls are an entirely new design; not a specially-decorated version of a production guitar. Saul's attention to detail puts the big manufacturers to shame. The appointments on Saul's guitars (for example: multi-layer bindings and ebony pickguard and headstock veneer) are typical of much more expensive production instruments.

A fully-custom guitar is not for the impatient. My two Koll guitars took 18 months and 39 months from order to delivery. Many guitarists I know would change their minds about their "ideal" guitar dozens of times during that period.

In summary: I determined exactly what I wanted in terms of the physical, acoustical and electrical attributes of my instrument going before approaching a builder. I selected a builder with a proven track record of doing a good job on a wide range of fully-custom designs. I was willing to defer design details (in particular: the internal construction) to the builder in order to meet my requirements. And I was willing to wait.

The result is that I now have two guitars which are perfect for me, purchased at a cost which is a bargain by any standard.

Yes, Koll guitars do enjoy a good rep, particularly on TGP where I see you from time to time. His designs are a bit quirky, but they all have a coolness factor, and by all accounts play and sound great. I have yet to play one, but would love to see what all the hubbub is about.

I especially like your description of the journey you took to get to where you are. I have come to a similar place with a Chris Forshage Ergo. Was supposed to be a 6 + month build, turned out to be a year. Great guitar though, almost plays itself.

**JohnW400** · 03-12-2009, 02:32 PM

If I do the math right you're talking about $2800-3000 for a carved guitar to your spec? That's excellent. For that kind of money, any jazzer looking to play jazz on a Gibson Les Paul or Es 335 or what have you should consider this. How about a foto?

**TieDyedDevil** · 03-12-2009, 03:17 PM

**JohnW400** · 03-12-2009, 04:29 PM

Very nice indeed!

**Banksia** · 03-12-2009, 08:49 PM

Wow!....wow!

**Len Laviolette** · 03-13-2009, 02:34 PM

I think the best guitars in the world are being built in private garages. I am a luthier, small time. (Retired land surveyor). I have been building since 1985 and have built 34 instruments. All nylon string classical and cutaway, some with onboard electronics. Certainly not all of my guitars have been worthy of a master musician, but some have. Lately I have had success in my local area of San Diego, but that doesn't mean guys are kicking the door down to buy my guitars. Jaime Valle, Peter Sprague and George Svoboda all play my guitars.

The point of this harangue is that there are really good guitars out there wanting good players to pick them up. Guys are paying up to $2000 for factory made instruments that are advertised in the shiny paper mags. If you look around a bit you can get a hand made guitar for that much or maybe a bit more.

It's not all about the money. At the convention of the Guild of American Luthiers, a seasoned luthier was asked "What would you do if you won the lottery?" He replied "... probably keep building guitars until the money runs out."

The guys who build them are like the guys who play them. We just love them.

Best of luck to all you players and keep making music.

Regards
Len

lavioletteguitars.com

**derek** · 03-13-2009, 02:39 PM

Those Kolls are just lovely.

**Squint** · 03-13-2009, 05:07 PM

Len, your work is incredible. And they SOUND good, too!
I would love to be able to make a whole guitar, but I am quite happy with the Dremel and fingerrests living in an apartment... LOL!

We're down in SD visiting family and such all the time. I'll give you a heads up so I can try one of your works of art someday!

If you build it, we will play!

**Len Laviolette** · 03-13-2009, 05:32 PM

Thanks Squint.

Kind words. Please do look me up. I'd love to let you try one of my guitars. It is especially rewarding to hear one of my guitars in the hands of a good player. I am such a lousy guitarist, but I still love to play. Whenever anybody is within earshot, I put it down. I am taking classical at a local JC and private lessons as well. It is a difficult instrument to conquer but it is so much fun. I have loved guitar since I was a kid and it never let go of its grip on my psyche.

Thanks again, look me up in San Diego

len@lavioletteguitars.com

**TieDyedDevil** · 03-13-2009, 07:06 PM

Originally Posted by Len Laviolette

Guys are paying up to $2000 for factory made instruments that are advertised in the shiny paper mags. If you look around a bit you can get a hand made guitar for that much or maybe a bit more.

That's a really good point, Len.

When you buy from one of the big manufacturers, only a fraction of your money goes into the guitar. The rest goes to advertising, lawyers, executives, salesmen, real-estate leases, debt, etc. Also, the relationship between buyer and manufacturer is at arms-length.

**Len Laviolette** · 03-14-2009, 12:30 AM

Thanks for the reply David. All of those factors are huge in accounting for costs of doing business. To say nothing of the cost of the materials these days. Ebony is sold by the pound now. And it is heavy stuff. Some of it sinks in water.

The Chinese are buying virtually everything as fast as it becomes available. They can put a playable guitar on a music store shelf-strung up and ready to play for less money than I can buy the material for. As little as 2 years ago I could buy a really nice set of straight grained, quarter-sawn Indian rosewood for about 40 bucks. Anything decent is about 3 times that now and you have to hunt for it. We have to compete with the Chinese for every scrap of material out there. Not just lutherie materials. All industries are pressed by Asian markets now.

Sorry to get off point here. Anyhow, there are lots of guys like me making truly good guitars who will always make them no matter what. They are more than merchandise. We need to keep making them as much as you need to keep playing them.

Thanks again and keep making music.

Len

len@lavioletteguitars.com

**Squint** · 03-16-2009, 08:47 PM

Say, have any of you guys tried the Chinese Gretsches? Likes? Dislikes?

Also...I have it on good authority that when Gibson says "American made" these days, they really mean "American assembled" as the bodies and necks are crafted in China and other countries and shipped over here...

The boutique guitars sound more like a better value the more research I do!

**Bertrand tB** · 03-18-2009, 08:18 AM

I've a Chinese Gretsch Pro Jet (solidbody). For the little amount of money I think it's a fine guitar. I like the looks and the feel (it's a bit heavy though) and for me the pick ups are good enough. The tuners are a bit weak but that's easily to change for GFS tuners which for this guitar is good enough. I've also a Korean made Gretsch synchromatic jr, of which i've changed the stock pick up for a Bartolini 5J. This guitar is my favourite for jazz.

**abelljo** · 03-18-2009, 09:44 PM

Check out Jaen guitars in Barcelona Spain, great guy and an excellent luthier. Found him while looking up how to fix an issue with some Benedetto pickups. I was on my way to ordering one when I got laid off. I will resume as soon as I get another gig. Damn economy!

Guitarras Jaén I think it is.

**Gabe2099** · 03-18-2009, 10:20 PM

Originally Posted by abelljo

Check out Jaen guitars in Barcelona Spain, great guy and an excellent luthier. Found him while looking up how to fix an issue with some Benedetto pickups. I was on my way to ordering one when I got laid off. I will resume as soon as I get another gig. Damn economy!

Guitarras Jaén I think it is.

that's great site you found there. i got curious and "designed" a guitar to see the estimate, i was thinking "oh well, it'll say 20k euros and i'll say heh" but, surprisingly, it was a pretty modest price tag for what i wanted. if he's still doing business 2-3 years from now, i might go ahead and purchase a zanzibar... i think they look great from the pictures on the site.

**abelljo** · 03-19-2009, 09:21 AM

He quoted me about 4,800 us for a 17" cadillac. Very close to an L-5 type guitar with all the fixins! Barcelona Spain is very different from the US as far as I know. The average income is like 1,500.00 a month. Cost of living is cheaper too. I hear it has a killer Jazz scene.

**Paul Jerome** · 05-13-2009, 02:18 AM

My favorite guitar is a Benedetto...it gives me chills in the proper hands....It's also very pricey but having seen how they are made personally , at their shop...I know why they are so incredible and why they cost so much. They are really handmade. Ultimately it's WHO is playing , not what they play....

**Greywolf** · 09-27-2022, 07:03 AM

I have one "boutique" guitar built by Tony Nagy , and a half dozen I've made that I decided to keep over the last 30 years. Also 5 custom shop instruments. They all get played , but not gigged.

**teleman3726** · 11-10-2022, 08:04 PM

I have a Campellone and a D'A and a S400. They are all different instruments. If I had to part with them I would miss them all. But I would miss my Campy most.