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Excellent, then that's what I shall do. Thanks for the nudge in the right direction, folks. (Also nice to be involved in one of the rare cases of unanimity on the JGF!)
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05-10-2014 03:25 AM
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First up, some guide holes were drilled and a terrace was routed around the perimeter. I must say that at this point the little lady was skeptical... ("Your poor wood!" were her words, I believe.)
Let the carving begin! Much of the initial waste was cleared by chisel before moving on to the planes.
Slowly -- very slowly -- that turned into this. A few minor spots to even out, but one needs to know when one should stop tweaking before one ruins all of one's hard work. The plate edges are slightly oversized in the interest of superextracarefulness.
I'm no Linda Manzer (in many ways), but results so far have been encouraging.
[edit: And now I can't stop staring at that huge pull in my carpet.]Last edited by Jehu; 05-16-2014 at 11:24 PM.
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Looking good Jehu. The shop foreman (relaxing on the floor there) seems to be quite satisfied with the results so far.
Is the Monterey Cypress from the cultivated sources in NZ? It's never available around here as it's a protected species, I think. At least I've not seen any.
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How long did each plate take to carve?
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I cut the f holes after the bulk of the work on the inside is done. Just don't try and go to final dimension before you cut them. Carving out the inside is not a delicate process and you are far more likely to tear up the edge doing that than when sawing them out. Just sneak up on it and clean up the edge with a Popsicle stick with sandpaper stuck to it and you'll be fine. Or you could just come over and use the pin router if you want.
Originally Posted by Jehu
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Nice red-bi Aussie btw!
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I wanted to ask the same actually, how long for carving a plate ?
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Great question... no idea. I have just sort of been chipping away at it (literally, heh) in my spare time. If I had to guess, I might say 8-9ish hours per plate. This will definitely get faster as I gain experience and perhaps move to more efficient tools. I've heard some experienced carvers estimate ~10 hours per plate, including inner arches.
Jason: Thanks for the input. That pretty well jives with what everyone has said on other forums as well. I've also been advised to seal the areas around the f-holes with shellac before cutting as an extra precaution; I might try that. I'm a longtime admirer of your work, btw!
Scot: Monterey Cypress is definitely not protected down here. It was introduced quite a while back (there are many specimens around that are well over 100 years old) and used for shelterbelts in fields, as they grow fast and huge in this climate. However, farmers have realized that livestock really dig the leaves on the lower branches, which give them some serious digestive issues. As a result, we've got a lot of timber kicking around.
ii V i: Thanks! Yes, she's a beaut.
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Still working on the plates, but I thought I'd provide an update in the kerfed lining department.
I started with some ~6mm x 14mm lengths:
... which I cut on a 30 degree diagonal:
Then I notched those bad boys with the help of a carefully placed fence:
Bam! Enough linings (hopefully!) for a guitar. Nice and flexy, they should do the trick. The kerfs may not be at precisely constant intervals, but I figure that will add to the charm.
I've read a lot of complaints from luthiers about how soul-crushingly tedious it is to make kerfed linings, but at least this small amount really didn't take very long at all. I've seen tedious-er. Next time I might even make 'em with hand tools, just for the hell of it.Last edited by Jehu; 06-07-2014 at 02:15 AM.
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I don't find making kerfed linings with the band saw particularly tedious. However, I find doing it by hand a very relaxing exercise...I get my jig, my saw, a cool drink (or hot if the temperature dictates), put the local jazz station on the shop radio, sit down at my bench and saw away....I've read a lot of complaints from luthiers about how soul-crushingly tedious it is to make kerfed linings, but at least this small amount really didn't take very long at all. I've seen tedious-er. Next time I might even make 'em with hand tools, just for the hell of it.
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Sounds like time well spent, Scot. Any interest in sharing a pic of your jig? (That sounds bad...)
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I must admit that I found this to be an immensely rewarding experience, and it certainly increased my confidence with chisels, palm planes, and scrapers.
Here is some rough-carving in action. Note the preventative thumb tape.
I kept a frequent eye on my progress with the world's most low-tech thickness gauge:
A bit of final scraping concluded this phase of the process:
Now it was time to cut some f holes. After some careful planning...
... I sealed the area with a coat of shellac, then bravely plunged a Jehu-powered drill into my freshly carved top. I cut the rough outline with a fretsaw, being very careful to stay well within the line:
I then used sanding sticks of a variety of shapes, sizes, and grits to clean things up:
Et voila! I am quite happy with how things have turned out to this point. Far from perfect, but this first guitar is all about the learning process.
Now to bind those f holes, which I anticipate will be great fun.
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Looks good, Jehu. I know all too well the Ibex plane induced blister. Those planes were designed by the devil.
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Heh, yes, whoever designed them clearly did not have human use in mind. Actually, you may be onto something: They could very well be optimized for the cloven hoof.
Say, Jason (and anyone else), you don't happen to have any tricks for working with PVC binding, do you? I'm finding it quite stiff and am trying to avoid damaging the wood around the f holes in any way. I've tried heating it with a hair dryer, but it just doesn't quite do the trick. I think I will try boiling water next, and might make an f-shaped jig to get the curves before fitting the binding to the plate.
It's flexible enough that binding the body won't be a problem, but small, tight curves are a bit of an issue.
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you could soften it with acetone.
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My understanding is that acetone works for ABS but not PVC, no?
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I've never used PVC for binding. I have a jig that is made out of 3/4" ply that's cut out in the shape of my F-hole and I do my laminations on it. It's tall enough that I can also prebend the slope of the arch into it also. I'll have to search around for a picture of it. I could just go take a picture of it with my phone but for some reason lately when I want to post a pic from my phone it tells me it's an improper file. Dunno. But I'll try and get you a picture. Originally Posted by Jehu
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Cool, thanks Jason. I've come to a similar conclusion and built the below jig this week; perhaps yours is similar. I notched the curlicues so that the binding can extend beyond the point. I also coated it with marine varnish so that if I try the boiling water method, I don't have to dry the binding off (and lose heat in the process).
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Likewise, I've used ABS, celluloid, and wood - but never PVC.
If I may ask, why PVC binding in Particular?
Chris
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That's it exactly Jehu! I don't need to find a picture of mine because you got it. I have mine mounted on a little plywood board that I put in my vise so I'm chasing the thing around while I'm trying to bend my bindings on it. Nice job.
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I didn't necessarily have a burning desire to use PVC, but some fairly nice looking stuff was available to me locally (and inexpensively). I'm trying to avoid shipping from overseas where possible. Originally Posted by PTChristopher2
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>>> I didn't necessarily have a burning desire to use PVC,
I understand.
What will be your PVC-to-Wood adhesive?
Chris
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I planned to use Robbie O'Brien's method of taping the binding into place and then dropping in liquid CA (after sealing the end grain with shellac to avoid discolouration). It seemed to hold quite well on test strips.
I spent yesterday on it, and found the PVC to be somewhat uncooperative. Even after using boiling water to form the curves, fitting them to the plate, and using a hair dryer to try for a close fit, I still wound up with small gaps. Probably not enough to be noticeable if you weren't looking for them, but I would know they were there. Despite the fact that this is a skill-building project, I don't want to settle for a sloppy end result.
So I've removed the binding and ordered some ABS; we will see how that compares.
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It's official: ABS plastic is easier to work with than PVC. Not easy mind you:Easy-er. Be prepared to declare shenanigans if you hear anyone casually tossing around the word 'easy' with regards to binding f-holes. (I'm looking at you, Bobby B.)
I settled on the hair-dryer method for softening the binding to conform to shape, then taped them in as well as I could. Then I dropped in (a possibly somewhat excessive amount of) CA glue. I used painter's tape, but had to double up quite a bit; in the future, I will almost certainly be using filament tape.
After the glue cured, I used a sharp chisel and cabinet scrapers to remove the excess. There are slight imperfections around a couple of the tips (e.g., one is visible on the right hand side below). At some point I might channel that out a bit and drop fill with some wood dust and glue. Or maybe I won't mess with it and just do better next time. I have time to think about it.
I'm quite happy with how the mitre joints turned out:
Progress!
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very cool.
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