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Hey DG,
Now don't go saying that stuff!
Many guys like to note that they adjust the truss rod then wait for the next waxing crescent moon (originally called a "Truss Rod Moon") to see what the effect was.
Now if you have 20 guitars sitting in the "to do" pile, do you really think that each adjustment is done with such faux-patience?
>>> I also figure that if a guitar can't stand this kind of adjustment it's got bigger problems that a maladjusted truss rod
100% agreed, so long as one does not try pressing on the headstock, which is a terrible idea anytime. In my opinion.
I would suggest that in many cases you need more like 1/16th turn to really hit a target relief. But yeah, while I will deny it in court, certainly giving a neck a good bit of help to settle in to any adjustment works for me. Others may very strongly disagree.
Thanks for the fun post.
ChrisLast edited by PTChristopher; 01-20-2013 at 04:25 PM.
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01-20-2013 04:23 PM
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putting the neck across your knee and giving it a good bend is what i might do On a new guitar to break the glue joint that is seeped into the truss rod cavity
Originally Posted by D.G.
I don't buy vintage guitars, only new or next to new guitars, so I really don't have to worry about rusted/stuck truss rods. I prefer my necks to have no relief, i.e. to be dead straight, and I raise the action at the bridge to reduce/remove buzzing. I hit really hard, so a higher action is necessary and relief in the neck will tend to cause buzzes.
My truss rod adjustment method scares the bejezzus out of most folks
I sight down the neck, nut to bridge, then usually give about an 1/8 or so turn, flip the guitar over, brace the neck at the nut on my left knee, and the body/neck join on my right and firmly press down on the neck in the middle a few times. Then I flip the guitar strings up, brace the same way and give another couple of pushes. Sight down the neck and repeat the process till I get the adjustment where I want it. I wouldn't really recommend this method with your vintage 30's Gibson, but for a new guitar it's always worked perfectly well for me. I also figure that if a guitar can't stand this kind of adjustment it's got bigger problems that a maladjusted truss rod 
It is something you should only have to do once
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A simple question:
If I give more relief to the neck, which as I understand means making the neck more bowed, do you expect the guitar becomes harder to play, because, as a consequence, you get a higher action?
I recently bought a Custom Shop Telecaster. It was like butter (I don't know if that expression makes sense in English or American English). Very easy to play. Bending strings was extremely easy. However it had several places with buzzing frets.
Playing lightly and with a decent amp volume you would forget about buzzing.
By pressing the low E string at the first and last frest I could see that the string was touching all the frets.
I asked the tech to do something to remove some of the buzz.
He gave to the neck just a bit of relief. Buzz was completely removed, it resonates like an acoustic guitar, but it is not like it was before.
Slightly harder to play, especially when bending strings.
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Dialling in more relief means a higher action. But you are then supposed to lower the action at the bridge to where you want it. That said, a higher action means less buzzing and string slap so one gets a cleaner tone as well as a greater dynamic range. It's perfectly possible for any normal human to get used to a higher action. When small women can play double bass, so can you play a guitar with a higher action, if you like the sound of that better. When I was young, I chased the lowest possible action and the utmost ease of playing, but I stopped being anal about that. Instead I went for the tone I liked best - and that means heavy flatwound strings and a not so low action. Having become accustomed to that has also been very liberating for me, because I can play practically any guitar which is handed to me (well, maybe except Freddie Greens Gretsch Eldorado). BTW, some guitarists actually prefer a higher action if they bend a lot.
I prefer a bit of relief. The higher the action, the more relief (because a higher action is usually chosen to enable more forceful playing without buzzes). My two acoustic archtops with high action, which I use for forceful 4-to-the-bar rhythm comping has more relief than my electric archtops which have a lower action. I set the relief on my guitars so the "buzz threshold" is the same all the way up the neck. This is also a setting which tends to equalize the fretting resistance up the neck somewhat. With a perfectly straight neck, the fretting resistance tends to increase as you go higher up the neck. Also on a perfectly straight neck, buzzes can be expected from the length of strings between the nut and the fretted note - especially if you have the nut slots set up (or should I say "set down"?
) in the PTChris way: As low as possible (which is a good thing).
Now, this is MHO and there are as many opinions about relief as there are guitarists.Last edited by oldane; 01-21-2013 at 10:51 AM.
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I read from Dave Hunter somewhere (paraphrasing)
"Most guitarists set the action too low and then raise it until it stops buzzing. A different approach is to set the action to high and lower it until it becomes playable. The higher action gives you clearer notes and more sustain"
That is the way I roll and havent had any issues.
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I have a pretty big problem.
I am currently playing a 2013 Gibson ES-335 (bought brand new in 2013 from Steves Music Toronto) as my main guitar (with Fender Stratocaster or Ibanez AF 175 on the side). But my beloved 335 is having a serious truss rod issue.
About a year ago I took my guitar to a very reputable tech in the Toronto area named Mark Atkinson for a typical setup. He called me a couple days later with some bad news, he said that the truss rod in my guitar is broken and that it cannot tighten any further. That said, the neck was fairly straight and didn't need any immediate adjustment. Obviously this is a huge issue. He didn't have much in the way of remedying the situation, we discussed heat pressing the neck but we never went through with that.
He advised me to take it to where I bought it (Steves Music in Toronto) and discuss warranty procedures with them. So I did that, I brought the guitar in, and I explained the issue- the tech at Steve's said he didn't think anything was wrong with it, but that he would look.
He calls a week or so later saying that the guitar is fine and that he's given it a set up. So I pick up the guitar and everything looks good (Keep in mind, the neck was fairly straight before, that wasn't the issue). Over the next few days I talk about this situation with my teachers & guitar playing peers and they all agreed: it is VERY questionable that the Steves guy said the truss rod was fine. Because Mark Atkinson (the first tech I went to) has a spotless reputation, and also has no reason to lie to me about something like that- he would likely have not made a profit on fixing the guitar neck, and he advised me to investigate my warranty.
But Steve's...they wouldn't want to lose money replacing or repairing my $2500 guitar.
So all of this happens, but I am a university music student, so I really can't go very long without this guitar. So in the mean time I'm playing it all the time- practice, gigs, everything. And I'm not having any issues, but I'm also not adjusting the truss rod.
So about a year later (August 2015) I take it to a new tech to get a new nut cut for it. This new tech is Mike Smyth (Smitty), a highly respected Canadian guitar/pickup maker. I bring my guitar in and Smitty is very thorough, he assess my playing style, we discuss intonation, and every things good...then, he goes to adjust the truss rod. He tries to tighten it, and it really doesn't move. He spends more time looking at it and tells me what Mark Atkinson told me about a year earlier.
"Your truss rod is broken and can't be tightened any further".
He explained that truss rods on Gibson guitars are anchored up around the 17th fret or so, but that essentially my truss rod came "unanchored" and was moving closer towards the 15th fret. The procedure to fix this involves cutting open the fingerboard, pulling the truss rod back down, anchoring the truss rod again, and then re-doing the fingerboard that was ripped up in the process. That will cost me about $500.
Smitty's advice was to fix up my 335 as best as we can and then and sell it. He advised I buy something else.
So my dilemma is; I like this particular guitar, but the truss rod repair will cost $500,(I'm a student and $500 isn't cheap) and the neck/fingerboard has a curve to it that isn't ideal.
Would you sell this 335 and buy something else, or would you try and have it repaired?
Either way, I'm never buying a guitar from Steve's Music Toronto ever again, and I probably won't be buying another gibson.
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Get it repaired. $500 isn't too "bad". Gibson charges $1500 for the same operation plus refinishing the neck.
If you sell it you have to disclose its history, to be honest. You won't fetch much for it.
Repair it and finish your studies with it. If you see it as a tool like a computer you may upgrade it in a few years and write it off or unlike a computer, you may play it for the rest of time. It will probably work better and more reliably after the repair.
Good luck and my best wishes.Last edited by Jabberwocky; 08-09-2015 at 08:21 AM.
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My understanding is that the warranty on Gibson guitars sold in Canada is one year.
The Gibson distributor for Canada is Yorkville Sound.
This means that Gibson sold the guitar to Yorkville, who then sold it to Steve's.
Yorkville Sound
550 Granite Crt, Pickering, ON L1W 3Y8
(905) 837-8481
My understanding is that the distributor is on the hook for warranty claims, not the retailer. So, if the problem was evident within a year of your purchase, and your interactions with Mark Atkinson were documented, perhaps you should approach the distributor, not the retailer. Have you approached the manager of the Steve's Toronto store to explain this situation and asked for their assistance in honouring a warranty claim?Last edited by Hammertone; 08-09-2015 at 05:01 AM.
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So sorry for your dilemma.
My local Gibson dealer says this kind of neck/truss rod problem is way too common with Gibson these days. They ordered in a 335 studio recently & had to send back the first one for this exact issue!
Seems like fix it & have your keeper back in nice working order is the right way to go?
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I am not an expert but unless your truss rod is protruding out of the truss cover, this doesn't seem feasible. Have you tried pulling the nut off and lubricating the rod and threads and then re-installing the nut? That's what Heritage told me to do on my guitar and it worked like a charm. Originally Posted by David Cruz
If your truss rod has become unhinged and is moving up the neck to the extreme you've been told, then the truss rod should likely be sticking out of the headstock. Something is not right here. Think about it. 15 to 17 fret is about an inch..
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Actually, Joe, what happens is the truss rod anchor compresses the wood and the anchor starts to creep upwards. But, I seriously doubt the anchor move as far as this first tech said it did.
Pull the frets, heat the neck to re emulsify the glue holding the finger board onto the mahog neck, remover the finger board, remove the TR, remove and replace the damaged/compressed wood, install new TR, reattach the finger board, refret the finger board, re bind the neck, refin the neck . . . . Arghhh!!!
Best way to go with this one might be a new neck.
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just tossing this out there . . .
but don't Gibsons come with some kind of a "lifetime guarantee" free from manufacturing defects (or something like that) . . . pretty sure that's what the label inside my J45 says . . .
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Gibson's lifetime warranty does not apply to instruments sold outside of the United States of America. Originally Posted by Longways to Go
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Hello,
I am sorry to hear about the problems you are having with your ES-335. Truss rod problems are extremely troublesome and don't always show their head until it is too late. If you would like, we will happily look at your instrument to see if there is anything that can be done on our end to try to fix the problem.
Regards,
Yorkville
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I've said it before, but seems that it should be said again: an overtightened truss-rod that wouldn't adjust no more is the MOST COMMON ISSUE on Gibson guitars.
A sign of truss rod trouble, and an easy solution. | stewmac.com
This is the down-to-earth solution to a down-to-earth problem; no need for visions of Doom and Gloom or go totally Conspiracy Theory on it. Any person who has attended and didn't actually sleep through luthiery school should know this by heart.
HTH,
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If it were mine, I'd probably try something like this: Truss Rod Repair Kit
LtKojak had the same idea, the Stew-Mac solution.
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Why do people need to play with the truss rod so much anyway? I have 3 guitars with truss rods, a Suzuki acoustic dreadnought (yeah, same people who made motorbikes!), an Ibanez Artist solid, and a Gibson 175.
I have had all 3 guitars for over 30 years, and I reckon I have given each one about a quarter turn on the truss rod and that's it. I hate turning those things unless it's strictly necessary.
The action and relief on these guitars is perfectly ok after all this time.
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Tweaking the truss rod is no rocket science when you know what you are doing...
I suspect the notorious rod snapping happening mostly on guitar where the rod was never adjusted in decades...
A combination of seasonal change, unstable humidity and a very low action can make one play with the truss rod quite frequently. Of course if one has a Freddy Green like action and a huge amount of relief it is not necessary to do so.
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I live in area with sharp differences in temperature and humidity between winter and summer + extremely dry steam radiators in my apartment. The changes in relief due to this are quite noticeable. I have to adjust my truss rods twice a year (tighten in winter, loosen in summer) if I want consistent relief and playability year round. "Need" may be too strong a word for this -- in the many years before I actually figured this out (and dared touch a truss rod), I lived with the changes in relief -- but it makes a difference. If you have a truss rod that needs more frequent adjustment than this (especially repeated tightening), there's probably something else going on, but seasonal tweaks are normal. Originally Posted by grahambop
John
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That's fair enough - we don't have that problem in the UK! Originally Posted by John A.
I guess regular small adjustments not going too far either direction are fine, in fact probably keeps the rod moving freely. I just wondered what it takes to "un-anchor" it as has been suggested.
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Well, not sure I'd agree, unless you don't have central heating!* I suppose it depends who fussy you are about a low action. Originally Posted by grahambop
My experience in the UK has been that other brands - guild, fender, slaman, ibanez- need hardly any seasonal adjustment, but gibsons, particularly modern gibsons, do. I have found truss rods on older ( pre 80s) gibsons to be reliable, but the couple of modern gibsons I have had, and sold, had unreliable truss rods. In one case, it couldn't be adjusted straight.
Not gibson-bashing; I still have three older ones.
* or live in Manchester
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1st thing I do when I buy a new Gibson is check the trussrod and make sure I can get it to backbow the neck. I never had a problem with Nashville except for a 2010 with a laminate fretboard but their is indeed a serious problem going on in Memphis with their trussrods. Since 2010 I have personally had to return 4 Gibson's that had trussrods that didn't work or were maxed out tight right from the factory. Not bashing Gibson either just stating fact. Gibson did replace the guitars with a apology. My dealer said it wasn't just my 175's but he had to send back a lot of 335's also with trussrod issues. Gibson has said they went to a new trussrod for 2015 so we shall see if all is well again. I know a lot of the problem was with the laminate fretboards used for a while are too stiff compared to solid wood fretboards and the trussrods just didn't have the strength to straighten them. The trussrod anchor would just "dig in".
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Vinny, That is GREAT information.
I would have thought, that a laminate fretboard would have gone the other way by preventing the bowing by virtue of its strength. Then the truss rod would not have to be used as much. Goes to show how much I know.
JD
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I am going to try to take things back to truss rod stuff.
Most truss rod mishaps occur, IMO, because guitarists haven't a clue as to what the truss rod adjustment is supposed to do/not do. Take a guitar with a big, chili-dip forward bow, e.g., a Gibson ES-335-12 that has been tuned to concert pitch for several years. [FWIW, those guitars were supposed to be tuned to "D" and capoed. Long-term tuning to concert pitch will bow that neck, for sure.]
With the strings in place, and tuned up, attempting to correct a big forward bow with the truss rod will likely damage the rod and the neck--every time. If you slack the strings, however, and loosen the rod first, then manually attempt to improve the bow before torquing the truss rod, you should be able to straighten things without fubar-ing the truss rod. In the worst instances, application of heat is necessary.
Simply torquing the truss rod to take out the bow spells disaster, unless we are talking about correcting simple relief, or seasonal bow of a few thousandths of an inch.
A Gibson is an expensive instrument to try to learn truss rod adjustment on.
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One of my guitars has the rather common problem of the truss rod nut being in a fairly small cavity, with little room for the nut-driver head of the truss-rod wrench. On one of my guitars, I literally tried every wrench in my box, including the Stew-Mac ones. All were either too thick-walled, or to "deep" to fit in the tiny space. I was about to carefully enlarge the truss-rod adjustment nut cavity when i thought I'd try one more. I ordered a Grover Truss Rod Adjusting Tool (link below for the 5/16" tool) and it arrived sporting a very thin-walled nut-driver head and a very shallow (though not too shallow) head, which nestled perfectly into the cramped cavity of my guitar. 10 minutes later I had the needed adjustment complete.
Others might have this problem and I thought I'd share my finding! All the best!
http://www.amazon.com/Grover-16-Trus...ilpage_o03_s00
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