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Just had another PLEK job done on one of my archtops and wanted to give a shout out to this awesome invention. For the second time in a row the instrument only needed a "super accurate" tweak of the truss rod. My frets were not in need of crowning - not even a minor one. The action is now lower than low (heck i may even raise it a little, and i like it low...)
Now, I realize that there are some terrific guitar techs out there - in fact I use one myself - but there is simply no way to compete with this machine in terms of precision. It can "see" and do things that the human eye and hand can't.
BTW, go see Larry at Norman Music especially if you live in the central USA. He works on guitars from all over, some for stars, and some for regular joes like me. A lot of folks ship their guitars to him while others make a road trip. It takes a solid technician to use the machine, and he knows how to get it done. He also has the lowest service fee in the nation (last time I checked around).
Check it out!
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10-18-2012 04:18 PM
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As a matter of interest....
How would the machine deal with the old slight fret board hump where the neck joins the body.
Only a very slight one (not visible to the eye)
I have 2 arch tops where this is a problem. I tried to get my tech to dress the frets and pay attention to that particular area but there's only so much you can do.
I still get some buzzing up there around the 13th and 14th frets.
Just wondering how the machine would deal with that.
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The Plek system in question does two things.
One is easy to describe:
- It accurately measures and "levels" frets, arguably more accurately than many luthiers. In practice, this may not be as big a deal as some feel it is.
The harder to describe:
The Plex measures the frets under full load, the corrects them as needed (and determined by a skilled data interpreter/operator) while there is no string load.
A very skilled luthier will observe the fret situation under load, but then do the corrections with no load on the neck. Often this works great.
But some necks can have odd shapes (this can all be VERY subtle) under load, and under such conditions it can be very difficult to accurately file frets with no string load.
On may observe a slight "S" bend under load that all but disappears with no load. A very skilled luthier (who bothers to try) can deal with this, but it s tricky. For the Plek it is as easy as a neck that is better behaved under load.
Sooooo,...
It makes perfect sense that one non-hysterical person may find a "Plek job" to be a near miracle, while another equally non-nutty person may feel it did little to nothing for them.
Likewise under many (arguably even most typical) conditions the machine can do no better than a luthier who has skill and bothers to try. But under some conditions, the machine can be dramatically superior, and faster.
In my opinion.
Chris
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>>> I still get some buzzing up there around the 13th and 14th frets.
>>> Just wondering how the machine would deal with that.
The machine can not change the fundamental situation. If you have a hump of a proportion that really needs FB work and not just a fret dress, the machine will not change this.
Chris
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Thanks PT. I think on one of the instruments I'll need to do some more major FB work.
The other one needs another approach....more fret work.
On the other hand my L5 is just perfect. One out of three!
Oh and I just got a Comins GCS1 and the sales spiel states that each guitar is set up at the Comins workshop.....I have to say that it's the best set up I've ever felt.
That neck is just superb to play. Freakishly good.
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Congratulations on getting the PLEK job. May I ask how much it ran you?
My source for PLEK service would be Jay Wolfe at Wolfe Guitars in Jupiter. He's only about a hour drive away and it as courteous as they come.
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Yet another reason I'm GASSING for a USA ASAT Special (G&L's T-style guitar) is that they are PLEKked. The bad news is that this is expensive in the case of their stainless steel fret option: a $400 MSRP upcharge ($300 street).
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I, for one, am a BIG advocate for using the Plek machine. I have had 8 of my guitars "custom Plek'd" to my action, my relief, ect... and the come out playing beyond what I can describe. They have lower action and no buzz.
Some people, like the CNC machine, will debate the precision and accuracy that a Plek vs competent luthier can do. I am not here to do this. I know the luthier that has a Plek that I go to can scan a guitar, Plek the guitar's frets & nut, and final polish the frets in under an hour. The most important thing to me is that the ACTION IS ALWAYS EXACTLY AS I SPEC IT TO HIM with no adjustments by me at home. The cost is around $100 for strings, nut & frets, and perfect to me adjustments.
Could a competent luthier give the same results... probably. But my experiences have been that the action is never as precise as I have asked for with the luthiers, the bench time is longer, no pre or post "diagnostic" fretboard scan, and the wait time to get the guitar back is more. Cost is a wash.
Just my .02
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Why don't you get the one with regular frets for now, wear them out, and then get a PLEKed refret from a trusted dealer like Jay Wolfe or Dan Erlewine for around $300?
Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles
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Other than QC I dont see the importance for pleking a new guitar. Like PT says (i think.. too lazy to scroll down). a neck with no issues can be leveled quite effectively by a luthier. A neck with minor twists and humps would benefit most from a plek IF the neck has stabelized (my spelling is off this morning.. sorry). A new neck can take a while to twist and warp (an advantage of buying older guitars, if it hasnt twisted after 15 years it "probably" wont). Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles
I have nothing againts PLEKing, I dont see it as panacea but for the right job it would offer some advantage.
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Where do you have your guitar PLEKed, strung, and nut replaced for $100?
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Was thinking the same thing.. around here it's more than that just for a proper setup including a new nut.
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PLEK is almost as polarizing as the Feiten system. I'm enamored of both of them, but have no desire to try to convert anyone.
I will say that a factory PLEK is much different than getting a custom one done.
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Klatu, Originally Posted by Klatu
I too live in South Florida (Pembroke Pines). I've thought about using Wolfe to refret, plane the fingerboard if needed, and Plek my L5. I can't find any reviews or recommedations, or any info on them before I entrust them with my baby. It takes a lot of skill to do all that work and run that PLEK machine properly from what I understand. I've heard good things about them as far as sales is concerned, but nothing concerning their ability to do a super job on a bound fingerboard high-end archtop.
Does anyone know someone who has had this work done at Wolfe guitars in Jupiter? Not just a PLEK on a Strat/LP, but real fretwork on an archtop? Sometimes a neck might need some touch-up after a fret job (on the edges). It takes skill to do that kind of touch-up so it looks original.
Let me know, as I'd love to use them instead of shipping my guitar out of state...
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Sorry, if I mislead that the nut would be replaced. I think that is an extra $25-50. Originally Posted by Klatu
But I am around a $100 for pre & post scan diagnostic of neck, frets cut/leveled, nut recut/corrected if need be, frets final polish, and guitar strung. A new nut that is added and Plek cut is either an additional $25 or $50.
Guys, also remember I am not shipping the guitar. I drop it off and wait on the work usually. Sometime a come back a day later, so I have no shipping cost. Shipping would obviously add to the cost.
Steve Weber at Weber Custom Guitars...
Steve owns the Plek machine and does all his own work from his own workshop at his house.
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I agree Brian, and I also am just stating my opinion and my own experiences. Originally Posted by Flyin' Brian
There are other luthiers that do incredible work, for me Steve has my frets, nut, action, and set-up business.
And I COMPLETELY agree that a Custom Plek is much different that a more generic factory Plek.
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>>> PLEK is almost as polarizing as the Feiten system.
NO, it is NOT polarizing.
Just trying to be polarized,...
The funny thing about the Plek is that is absolutely can be magic on one guitar and pretty much inconsequential on another for perfectly simple, objective reasons. No need for polarity unless it amuses or something.
Unless I am completely WRONG!
Chris
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Oh I totally agree. I've played a couple of fabulous manual fret jobs that were as good as any PLEK that I've played....... Originally Posted by Kuz
.......and agree that there are more factors at hand than just a machine. Originally Posted by PTChristopher
I will say that the PLEK jobs I've had done were done by Joe Glaser, who is arguably the Dean of PLEK operators in the US, and who could probably do an astounding traditional job while blindfolded.
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when all i need is the aforementioned "super accurate" truss rod adjustment - nothing. i could not talk him into taking my money. the first job a few years ago cost me $125.00 if I remember correctly. he charged me slightly less than that when i returned with a second guitar. Originally Posted by Klatu
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Originally Posted by PTChristopher
you know much more about guitar tech work than i ever will but i don't see how a luthier can make the type of quantum adjustments to frets that this machine can - and only and exactly where needed. and oh yeah, quickly and effortlessly too (unless you count electricity and lubricant).
besides, are we really talking about luthiers or guitar techs? many times the set up men are techs, not luthiers, at least not master luthiers of note.
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Well first off, my post was meant in jest about argumentative polarity and such.
But on the modest substance:
>>> you know much more about guitar tech work than i ever will but i don't see how a luthier can make the type of quantum adjustments to frets that this machine can - and only and exactly where needed. and oh yeah, quickly and effortlessly too (unless you count electricity and lubricant).
They can't. But in very many cases the precision of the Plek, while wonderful, does not necessarily make a difference.
Guitars move around a little. So today's angstrom unit accuracy, can be moot as tomorrow's weather front comes through.
Under most conditions a skilled luthier who bothers to try can be remarkably accurate with a file (or whatever tools are used).
But indeed, for some necks the Plex is a fantastic tool that can really be a great help - and very clearly superior to even the best human effort.
>>> besides, are we really talking about luthiers or guitar techs? many times the set up men are techs, not luthiers, at least not master luthiers of note.
I know what you mean. But the terminology is tricky. There are guys who have never built a guitar, but really know what they are doing, and bother to actually try to do a great job.
And there are skilled "luthiers" who luthiate while applying some remarkably abominable practices.
In my opinion; certainly not the only way to look at it.
ChrisLast edited by PTChristopher; 10-19-2012 at 10:39 PM.
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The Plek idea is very enticing, and Ive had a college who has wishfully mentioned wanting to get his favorite guitar Pleked. So to the degree that I have embraced the idea rather firmly myself. Before I take the leap I wonder if anyone is familiar with the set up proceedure, and to what extent it was deemed worth the investment, as it does cost a bit.
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I have only one plecked guitar, done at manufacturing, a G&L ASAT Classic. The neck was and is perfect for me. When I first purchased the guitar I delayed changing strings for fear of messing with perfection. I have since aquired the tools and skill to level my own frets, it isn't all that hard. I've had amazing results working some terrible necks.
I would certainly recommend having your guitar plecked, but would also recommend a good technician in your area. Ask a few guitarists you respect where they get their work done. I suspect most would love to talk guitars
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Based on the guitars I've had done, I highly recommend it.
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I've had two of my guitars Plek'd. My Gibson Les Paul Studio has a very low action, which I'm
sure a good luthier/tech could've achieved. I have a Gibson semi which had a refret; stone and
polish set ups; and work on the bridge, this was done by a luthier and I'm very happy with the
setup. When I got my Godin LGX-SA, I took it along to a couple of places, with the Gibson
semi as a reference. The first place was where I'd had the Plek done before. The tech said
he couldn't improve on the setup, and also they'd got rid of their machine. The owner of
the other place I went (SW London) noticed the Godin had 6150 frets, whereas the Gibson
6130s. They also have (probably) the last Plek m/c in the UK, which was fortunate, as they
programmed it to make the change, which might've been difficult by hand. The feel on the
Godin is great, and it's my Jazz guitar of choice, even tho' it's a solid. So I think the lesson
for me is - Plek is a great way to change the setup of a guitar, get a low action etc, especially
of a new guitar; after that a good luthier/tech should be able to maintain it - especially if
you use flatwounds and don't bend strings much..
Jamie
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