Benedetto Trainee

**Archtop17** · 08-04-2011, 07:21 PM

Hello all,

Glad to be here.

I'm looking to get over a mid life crisis, also to Buld my first Archtop.

I've been Studying the Benedetto Archtop Builder's Guide.,
I must admit it's a little overwhelming all the techniques to learn. But I do have some woodworking ability and a Strong desire to learn and succeed.

Need advice... any advice on all and everything, Where to buy, What to buy
as far as tools and luthier supplies. Select Woods.

I want to carve but I was wondering if maybe a 'kit' wouldn't be a better idea since I am new to Archtops.

Any Constructive advice will be gratefully appreciated..

Shawn

PS. what's the absolute first thing to buy? want to start slowly on a limited budget. Tools? Wood?

Sorry for this post I'm also kind of a scatter-Brain.

**paynow** · 08-04-2011, 09:15 PM

Welcome. Man, I wish I could even approach building an archtop. My hat is off to you. I'm not sure I could get past the first page of that book. I really wish I had those skills.

You have some great builders on here and some excellent threads following the construction of instruments, generally found in this section:

Guitar, Amps & Gizmos - The Jazz Guitar Forum

Some of the things I've seen people make are just awesome. Check it out, you can probably find some great help.

**Archtop17** · 08-04-2011, 09:22 PM

Thanks ..

I'll check them out.

yeah I've spent an hour in awe of the front cover alone. Got through the first few chapters last night, ashamed to say I've owned the book for more than a year, 'till finally the spirit has moved me to take action.

**jtizzle** · 08-05-2011, 05:58 AM

Assuming you want to build an archtop, that means you probably have enough money to make it. I don't have much experience building acoustic guitars, but I've ran through some projects with solid bodies that give me a bit of an idea.

Buy two sets of materials, high end quality materials and low quality materials. You get to pick how you want the high quality guitar (wood, ect). For the cheap one, plywood is a good wood to use. If you have no experience building guitars, buy a pre-made fretboard, with as much of the work done to it as you can find. The rest you can make yourself.

Archtops are hard to build, which is the reason you want to get cheap materials to build your first one, so if you mess up, it's easily replaceable. Then build the high quality one. Some people, though, find to like their low quality Archtops for some reason, and end up selling the high quality one to make up the money invested in both guitars.
That Bennedetto book is a great book, I've read through it a bit and it really goes through the process and explains it well. Sometimes it's a bit vague, but it makes the whole thing fun, making you explore how to do it yourself

**Gramps** · 08-05-2011, 07:24 AM

Jtizzle wrote. "For the cheap one, plywood is a good wood to use."

I'm not sure where this suggestion comes from.

You won't find many uses for plywood in your project. It won't work for top, neck, sides, back (unless you're fine with a flat back) braces, fingerboard, internal blocks.

I don't know what tools you already have but a band saw will help when you make forms and jigs. You'll need carving tools (finger planes, gouges, scrapers) for top and back. Some sort of bending iron for the sides. Some sort of thickness guage for carving and lots more.

You'll have a big, expensive project on your hands.

**jtizzle** · 08-06-2011, 03:32 PM

Some cheap guitars have plywood bodies. Plywood actually is a good wood for cheap guitars, especially archtops. It takes away some of the feedback when playing into an amp that archtops produce.

And anyways, the main reason for the plywood recommendation is because it's cheap and easy to find which makes good to build practice guitars. You're obviously not gonna go play at the village vanguard with a plywood guitar.

**Gramps** · 08-06-2011, 04:17 PM

The manufacturing process for pressed plywood tops sides and backs are completely different than working with solid wood. One won't teach you about the other so you'd be learning techniques for building an inferior instrument rather than how to work with solid wood.

The two process' are like comparing apples and oranges.

**loydb** · 08-06-2011, 04:32 PM

Ignore the plywood advice, you'll be making a carved-top guitar, not a pressed plywood piece. Where you save is using the lowest-grade spruce for top, and not-particularly-flamed maple (assuming you're doing the body with maple) for the body. I suggest downloading the PDF catalog from Luthiers Mercantile International, Inc. Guitar Builder Wood and Supplies as a starting point.

I do a lot of woodworking (http://www.blankenship.com), and have been kicking around the idea of trying my own archtop for years -- I still haven't jumped in, but I've got the Bennedetto book as well and have spent a lot of time poring over it.

Good luck, and do a blog with it! I've been blogging my builds for analog synthesizers, it's fun to look back at (electro-music.com :: View topic - Mini-Controller + 1v/oct calibrator build blog)

**kenbennett** · 08-06-2011, 05:15 PM

Archtop17,

Guitar building is fun. Do it yourself from scratch. Take as long as it takes. Patience. I'm building 2 archtops at present. Been at it for about a year working one day a week with my friend Jim Sadler. Started design from scratch. Making all the jigs and fixtures. My email and phone are on the contact page of my website. Your welcome to call or write any time.

**goshawk** · 08-07-2011, 03:31 PM

I'm not a luthier, but I'm going to jump in and disagree with some of the opinions here. There is absolutely nothing wrong with building a "plywood" guitar. Some of the most highly regarded jazz guitars are laminates, including the ES-175 and the Sadowsky Jim Hall and Jimmy Bruno models. Even Bob Benedetto makes laminates how.

As I see it, the advantage of building your first guitar with laminate plates is that it eliminates the need to carve the top and back, which I would think is the trickiest part of the process. You're still going to need to build the mold, install kerfing and bracing, attach the neck, etc., so you're going to learn alot. It just makes the process a little simpler and (perhaps) a little less expensive.

Of course, if you want a traditional carved archtop, the you should go for it.

If you like the idea of using laminate plates, one source that's been around for a while is acme archtops. I've never bought anything from them, but they seem to have a decent choice of tops, backs and sides as well as some useful info. on the site.

**kenbennett** · 08-07-2011, 04:55 PM

True, there is absolutely nothing wrong with building a laminate guitar. You will save more labor than money. Compare back, sides, and top wood from Stewart-MacDonalds for $262.64 to Acme at $280. That's the low end from each supplier. The way to save the most money is to buy lumber. Plain maple can sound as good as flamed, so you could save money there too.

It should be noted that if saving money is the goal, one would do well to consider purchasing a guitar. Unless you already have all the tools, your handmade guitar could end up costing more than a ready-made.

At Benedetto's shop, they laminate their own plates, retaining originality in size, outline, and arching. If originality is important, then you will have a lot more flexibility with solid woods that you carve and bend yourself.

The Acme stuff looks fine. The sides come pre-bent, so the outline and the arching is what it is.

Tricky? Bending sides is trickier than carving. Using Acme or similar parts eliminates both operations. The whole business of making guitars is not only tricky, it's a monumental task. Carving takes time, but it is one of the satisfying and rewarding experiences.

Where to start?

How much experience do you have at maintaining, repairing, or modifying guitars? If none or very little, then you may want to start there. Get the cheapest guitar you can find. Start collecting the tools for setups and fret work. You are going to need those tools at the end of your archtop project. So you could start by doing a complete setup on the cheap guitar. Then do a fret dressing. Then refret it and make a new nut for it. You're going to need those skills too.

The Benedetto book is good, but it is not thorough. You may want to get some other books too, or perhaps the Benedetto DVD. Something like 'The Guitar Player Repair Guide' would be good for the setup/maintenance project I mentioned above. The book by Cumpiano and Natelson, 'Guitarmaking: Tradition and Technology' is for flat tops and classicals, but it is much more thorough than the Benedetto book. You'll learn how to make your own kerfing, for example. Also, Henry Strobel's violin making books are very good. If you decide to carve, then you might find some of his techniques useful. You may want books on finishing as well.

Then, of course, there is this here internet. Lots of articles, videos, and so on.

To start your actual guitar project, there is nothing more motivating than having the actual wood sitting on your bench.

Don't have a bench? Start there.

With a limited budget it will just take more time. Budget and lack of time are the reasons that my archtop project is taking so long. But it is so much fun, especially as we are getting closer and closer to final assembly.

**loydb** · 08-08-2011, 09:27 AM

Just to clarify, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with a laminate/ply archtop. I'm saying that the Bennedetto book teaches you to make a carved top, and if you're following it, you should too.

**Greg Brouelette** · 08-10-2011, 11:35 AM

I am a luthier. And I think it's nuts to take on an archtop as your first guitar. You're grabbing the most difficult version of the instrument as your very first wood working project.

Do some basic woodworking projects first. Learn to sharpen your chisels and plane blades. Build your skill set.

Here is a photo intensive build thread I did earlier this year of a maple topped Telecaster clone I built for a lutherie contest. Notice how many details need to be exactly right. Even then, I've pulled off the neck and completely re-carved it since this build contest was done because it wasn't perfect.

GregB's 2011 TDPRI Build Challenge Thread - Telecaster Guitar Forum

I studied guitar building with Bob Mattingly and John Long back in the early 80's. Even after that class I ended up building mountain dulcimers first just to build up my skill set. That was a valuable learning experience in every way.

My advice: Build a box. Just a little jewelry box. If you want to do something guitar related then inlay a rosette into the top of the box and put some binding on it. You'll quickly find out how difficult it is to do even the most basic woodworking accurately. Then pick a slightly more difficult project and to that. Woodworking is an enjoyable hobby, but if you start off with an incredibly difficult project like an archtop guitar then you're going to frustrate yourself long before you see positive results.

**kenbennett** · 08-10-2011, 05:02 PM

Originally Posted by Greg Brouelette

I am a luthier. And I think it's nuts to take on an archtop as your first guitar. You're grabbing the most difficult version of the instrument as your very first wood working project.

Do some basic woodworking projects first. Learn to sharpen your chisels and plane blades. Build your skill set.

Here is a photo intensive build thread I did earlier this year of a maple topped Telecaster clone I built for a lutherie contest. Notice how many details need to be exactly right. Even then, I've pulled off the neck and completely re-carved it since this build contest was done because it wasn't perfect.

GregB's 2011 TDPRI Build Challenge Thread - Telecaster Guitar Forum

I studied guitar building with Bob Mattingly and John Long back in the early 80's. Even after that class I ended up building mountain dulcimers first just to build up my skill set. That was a valuable learning experience in every way.

My advice: Build a box. Just a little jewelry box. If you want to do something guitar related then inlay a rosette into the top of the box and put some binding on it. You'll quickly find out how difficult it is to do even the most basic woodworking accurately. Then pick a slightly more difficult project and to that. Woodworking is an enjoyable hobby, but if you start off with an incredibly difficult project like an archtop guitar then you're going to frustrate yourself long before you see positive results.

I totally agree with all of this. As a matter of fact, I consider my whole guitar making career simply as preparation for building an airplane, the old fashioned wood and fabric kind like a Piper Cub.

I'm happy to report that my guitars are holding up reasonably well. Prepare for takeoff!

**Dookychase** · 08-11-2011, 01:33 PM

You might consider buying Benedetto's dvds to accompany the book. It would be a big help.
Also, Frank Finnochio has a set of dvds on archtop building. He carves a top and also shows you how he steam bends solid tops. Well worth watching.

You can rent Benedetto's dvds at smartflix, along with other luthier dvds.

**Archtop17** · 12-09-2011, 06:13 AM

sorry this is not meant to be a *bump*

I'm amazed at how y'all (sorry) came out to help me. Thanks much Appreciated

**jmstritt** · 12-19-2011, 01:19 PM

Stewart Macdonald is a great resource for equipment, and they have a very knowledgeable staff that can definitely help answer questions and such.

I do think that building an archtop as your first guitar is ambitious, but my hat's off to you for doing it!

**Dookychase** · 12-20-2011, 09:43 AM

Hey Archtop, did you start with your guitar yet?

**Drumbler** · 12-20-2011, 10:03 AM

Originally Posted by jeffhilsonn

Assuming you wish to body an archtop, that agency you apparently accept abundant money to accomplish it. I don't accept abundant acquaintance architecture acoustic guitars, but I've ran through some projects with solid bodies that accord me a bit of an idea. Buy two sets of materials, top end superior abstracts and low superior materials. You get to aces how you wish the top superior guitar (wood, ect). For the bargain one, plywood is a acceptable copse to use. If you accept no acquaintance architecture guitars, buy a pre-made fretboard, with as abundant of the plan done to it as you can find. The blow you can accomplish yourself.

Excellent advice!

I would further add the obscure anon factor to my calculus. Then bind the laminate fine to ontop of its certainly. Very basic.