Building an Archtop Guitar

**wwwilkie** · 09-12-2010, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by robertm2000

When one buys a hand made guitar, it is a bargain, considering the skill and care that you have put into its making. I finally understand that now.

Thanks again.

You can say that again!

**wwwilkie** · 09-12-2010, 09:00 PM

Gluing the top on is much the same as gluing the back, only another clamping caul is needed. This sure beats using a hundred spool clamps.
Next photo is the top attached and the body together ready to rout the binding channel.
I have been using wood binding almost exclusively. I think it is a very nice touch on a fine instrument. Using the same wood as the back and sides is my preference, in this case curly big leaf maple with a single black fiber line. I make my own bindings and purflings in small batches.

**Jazzaluk** · 09-13-2010, 10:55 AM

Quick question Wyatt... Was the top slightly oversized when it was glued? It looks that way on the first picture but it seems fairly flush on the second.

**kamlapati** · 09-13-2010, 12:05 PM

Mr. Wilkie.

Question about tap tuning: is it sort of like tuning a drum? You know, where you listen for consistency around the head, attack and decay, overtones, rather than listening for a specific note? When guitar players hear the word "tuning", well, we think about specific notes, but I am suspicious that that is not what you're doing with an archtop top or back.

**wwwilkie** · 09-13-2010, 12:56 PM

Jazzaluk- you're right, they're still oversized when I glue them on. I find it easy enough to flush up the sides using a cradle (one of the clamping cauls for gluing) and flush cutting router bit on the overhead router. This gets it close then the rest is done with sanding blocks and random orbital sander. I'll admit I have missed documenting a few steps along the way, I'm afraid of getting too detailed and losing people.
Kamlapati-I've never really known how drums are tuned but I think that's a reasonable description. No, I don't try to reach certain notes, although I used to do that but it didn't seem to lead to anything meaningful. I think the term tap-tuning is a bit misleading but that seems to be the word we use. For me, probably in order of importance, the number one priority is flexibility, making sure there aren't stiff areas, then evenness, making sure there are no inconsistencies in the carving, no bumps or waves, then there is the "tap-tone" and for that it is nice to have a good, clear note which rings out for a good length of time. For much of the carving process this tap-tone will be high and tight, lowering and opening up as wood is shaved away. I actually stop right before getting to this point knowing I will remove more wood in the recurve area and in final sanding once the body is together and binding is installed.

**wwwilkie** · 09-14-2010, 08:31 PM

First I measure the arch of the top and back using two blocks of the same thickness, in this case the measurement is 18/32", well ok 9/16" but it lets me know I should use my routing fixture marked "18". This helps keep the ledge at 90 degrees and makes it easier to fit the binding to the guitar.
With the belly of the guitar on table I will rout the purfling channel first. For this guitar I have 2 lines of black fiber material and 1 maple line each measuring .020" for a total of .060". Since the binding is .090" I need to rout .150" but I'll give it another .010" to allow for any small inconsistencies in the lines (there is also the thickness of the glue). I rout the ledge only slightly deeper than the height of the purfling. Next the .090" channel is routed and that is approximately 1/4" high, the height of the outside wood binding. Sorry for all the useless measurements.
At this time I will bend the wood binding using the same press I used to bend the sides. Building this simple bending press has made my life a lot easier ensuring a good fit for sides, binding and occasionally solid unkerfed linings.
Next I go over the entire binding channel looking for anything out of the ordinary and cleaning it up while I'm at it.
The purfling is installed in 4 pieces and for this I use CA glue, gluing it in an inch at a time.
Once I am happy with the purfling with mitres cut and joined I carefully match up the wood binding to the routed ledge making any changes needed on a hot bending iron. When it fits well I use filament tape to keep it in place, then using CA glue again and a push stick I'll glue it in place.
Since I used super glue for the whole procedure it is immediately ready for level sanding for which I use a sanding block with 80grit sandpaper attached.

**Dookychase** · 09-15-2010, 03:10 PM

How thick is the top/back of the wood you're using.

1 inch thick?

Thanks

**wwwilkie** · 09-15-2010, 04:34 PM

They started at 7/8" and probably ended up around 13/16"+.

**Recurve?** · 09-21-2010, 09:20 PM

Great Process, I like the overhead router compared to the safety planer. Nothing safe about them, Even for the wood. (which I think is how it got the Name)

WHILE your on the top, How about X versus Parallel, These are really fine instruments you build, Is X the way to go for a "proper' archtop? or is it just a matter of preference? And is it as cut and dry as what I've read as far as - X brace is a more mellow sound (better usually) and not as strong, parallel is superior in strength and usually louder. These are things anyone purchasing a fine instrument would consider. And for playing styles would need to know what they are getting into. Any players battled with this quantry?

Thanks for the Tap tuning hints!, Really cool. And could your work get any cleaner???? its a shame to close up them Jazz boxes! they are like Art! seriously! How many cases of New Zealand Wine do you want for an apprenticeship? I'll throw in a sheep to seal the Deal! Ok, a few sheep!

listen to much '650 Sea Isle'? (radio Station) we always called it '650 Senile!' cause it played such old music, needless to say I now listen to Quadromania, and Billie Holiday all the time. Keep up the process, my favorite part is coming up!! Neck Sets! Then Finishing! Do you go with the famed, belated Lawrence? or do you travel to deep jungle in search of beetle Shell residue?
I want a documentery on THAT!

**wizard3739** · 09-21-2010, 09:59 PM

Thank you wwwilkie! Your lucid presentation of information on building an archtop guitar was very informative and much appreciated. I hope you will continue to participate in the forum.

wiz

**wwwilkie** · 09-22-2010, 02:44 PM

[QUOTE=
Thanks for the Tap tuning hints!, Really cool. And could your work get any cleaner???? its a shame to close up them Jazz boxes! they are like Art! seriously! How many cases of New Zealand Wine do you want for an apprenticeship? I'll throw in a sheep to seal the Deal! Ok, a few sheep!
[/QUOTE]

My current workshop is a bit larger than a walk-in closet so an apprenticeship is out of the question at the moment. And sheep? Well, for years I had my shop in a small town in Wales so I've had my fill of sheep (whatever that means). The wine on the other hand..... we'll have to talk.
As for your comments about x-bracing vs. parallel, I think that is generally accurate, although there certainly are very few absolutes in guitar building.

**wwwilkie** · 09-22-2010, 05:19 PM

Originally Posted by wizard3739

Thank you wwwilkie! Your lucid presentation of information on building an archtop guitar was very informative and much appreciated. I hope you will continue to participate in the forum.

wiz

Thanks wiz! I really appreciate the interest and the input.
It's been several days since my last building post because of mandolin duties but I will get back to the guitar soon and will post photos and perhaps more video until it is finished.

Wyatt

**wwwilkie** · 09-24-2010, 01:00 AM

In this next section I am scraping in the recurve. For this I use a single small scraper I reshaped to make it easy to get the curve I'm looking for.
The purpose of the recurve is to add to the flexibility of the plates, and give the builder more control over the voice of the instrument. This is another area which can only be improved upon by years of experience. Personally I have been building guitars and mandolins for a dozen years and feel I have much to learn.
The first photo shows the sides of the guitar after cleaning up the excess glue from binding. For this I use a sanding block for the most part, a large dowel with sandpaper attached for the tight areas in the waist and cutaway.
Next the binding is leveled again using a sanding block. It is important to do this carefully making sure the binding is an even height all the way around the guitar.
In the 3rd photo I begin scraping the recurve in the top. This is done slowly to make sure no chip-out occurs.
During this procedure the flexibility is constantly checked applying downward pressure with a thumb, fingers and palm of the hand, as well as checking the tap-tone regularly. Even though a relatively small amount of wood is removed there is a discernible drop in pitch when tapped.
Photo 5 shows a good angle of the nearly finished recurve on the back of the guitar.
Once I am happy with the flexibility and tap-tone I clean it up with the random orbital sander and take it to 220grit.

**Scotto** · 09-24-2010, 01:16 AM

What an awesome post... thanks for sharing!

**blackwingchai** · 09-24-2010, 04:01 AM

cant wait for the finish product

**Meggy** · 09-24-2010, 03:21 PM

It looks just stunning, can't wait to see the next stages!

When it comes to amplifying an archtop like this, say with a floating pickup, do you feel there is much difference in the amplified tone quality between the smaller (say 15" or 16" bout) guitars and the larger sizes (say 17" bout width and above), if I may ask?

**wwwilkie** · 09-24-2010, 11:47 PM

Originally Posted by Meggy

It looks just stunning, can't wait to see the next stages!

When it comes to amplifying an archtop like this, say with a floating pickup, do you feel there is much difference in the amplified tone quality between the smaller (say 15" or 16" bout) guitars and the larger sizes (say 17" bout width and above), if I may ask?

Well, I couldn't really say. When it gets into pickups and tonal differences in various sized bodies it moves into territory which is difficult to define, and in which there can be an almost unlimited number of variables.
Wow, what a cop out, eh?

**DaveS** · 09-25-2010, 12:31 PM

Wyatt, great thread! And cudos for taking the time & effort to compile it!
As a builder (and longtime lurker) myself, I envy you your time spent in the Benedetto shop, and felt compelled to join up & say well done ....and to see those pics. (Build threads are always such a treat ... great to see how others approach things. Love the plate clamping press!)
Keep up the good work..... everyone knows the best archtops come from Canada! <g>

**ECross** · 09-25-2010, 12:55 PM

Guitars are so beautiful. True pieces of art.

**gingerjazz** · 09-25-2010, 06:00 PM

Hi wwwilkie have you ever come across a luthier called paul mcnab(paulman)who lived and worked in my home town of Huddersfield.Sadly he passed away this year and will be greatly missed by many musicians.Sorry should have said huddersfield Yorkshire England.

**wwwilkie** · 09-26-2010, 01:16 AM

Dave, thanks so much for that. I've been to your website many times and am an admirer of your work. What beautiful models you have! I think you're right about the best archtops coming from Canada.

ECross-thanks!

**wwwilkie** · 09-26-2010, 01:20 AM

Originally Posted by gingerjazz

Hi wwwilkie have you ever come across a luthier called paul mcnab(paulman)who lived and worked in my home town of Huddersfield.Sadly he passed away this year and will be greatly missed by many musicians.Sorry should have said huddersfield Yorkshire England.

I never got the chance to meet Paul Mcnab during my time in Great Britain and hadn't heard about his passing until your post. I would occasionally make trips to Yorkshire to buy wood which makes it even more regrettable that I never had the opportunity to meet this great builder. I know he will be missed by many.

**Meggy** · 09-28-2010, 01:18 PM

Originally Posted by wwwilkie

Well, I couldn't really say. When it gets into pickups and tonal differences in various sized bodies it moves into territory which is difficult to define, and in which there can be an almost unlimited number of variables.
Wow, what a cop out, eh?

I'll let you off!

The question does have relevance for me though, as although I can appreciate that a fine archtop is a very responsive/sophisticated acoustic instrument, I am primarily interested in playing one as an amplified instrument. So the primary factor soundwise for me is how much the acoustic nature of the guitar influences the amplified tone (which it clearly does with a good archtop). A secondary consideration is then the size of the guitar - so... if a very similar result can be gained from a 15" bout compared to a 17" say (though I'm not at all sure it can!), I personally would go for the 15" for reasons of comfort and ease of use on stage.

I appreciate the further complexities that pickups, amplifiers, strings etc. can add to the mix, but I still feel that it should be possible to come to some kind of conclusion if these are assumed to be constant, and just body size is varied. I'll keep searching for answers though and cheers for replying to my digression!

**wwwilkie** · 09-28-2010, 04:33 PM

Originally Posted by Meggy

I'll let you off!

The question does have relevance for me though, as although I can appreciate that a fine archtop is a very responsive/sophisticated acoustic instrument, I am primarily interested in playing one as an amplified instrument. So the primary factor soundwise for me is how much the acoustic nature of the guitar influences the amplified tone (which it clearly does with a good archtop). A secondary consideration is then the size of the guitar - so... if a very similar result can be gained from a 15" bout compared to a 17" say (though I'm not at all sure it can!), I personally would go for the 15" for reasons of comfort and ease of use on stage.

I appreciate the further complexities that pickups, amplifiers, strings etc. can add to the mix, but I still feel that it should be possible to come to some kind of conclusion if these are assumed to be constant, and just body size is varied. I'll keep searching for answers though and cheers for replying to my digression!

I do believe a similar result can be gained in a 15" body as in a 17" in an amplified instrument but I do think we are drifting into the land of intangibles. Perhaps the key word here is "similar". If I were to approach building a smaller sized guitar with this in mind there would be certain intuitive differences in construction, however small, but in my mind there is no recipe for this. Personally I don't believe a conclusion can be reached, although it certainly is an interesting topic. I guess for me it seems the more I learn, the more there is to learn, and the less scientific I want to become. I think living on a island will do that to you.

**Dad3353** · 09-28-2010, 04:52 PM

Originally Posted by wwwilkie

...I think living on a island will do that to you.

Planet Earth is an island.
Congratulations on your excellent explanations and videos; we're all here with bated breath, waiting for that first couple of chords to be posted here (perhaps nearly as much as yourself...).
Great inspirational topic, many thanks.