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My 50s/60s German archtop has too much relief or in other words, the neck's bent. It has a non adjustable rod.
Has anyone heat clamped, compression fretted or installed an adjustable rod?
I like the guitar a lot. TIA
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10-05-2024 02:31 PM
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How much relief does it have? Does it have a bow with no string tension, if so how much? Is the neck bound? Has it been refretted? How are the frets now? Does the fretboard extension float? Does the extension drop off or have a hump? How is the neck angle?
When you say it has a none adjustable rod I assume that means some sort of beam or t-bar or similar.Last edited by Freeman Keller; 10-05-2024 at 03:39 PM.
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Originally Posted by Freeman Keller
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Need the above ask for information. If it has some neck reinforcement like a bar that is good. Compression fretting can be done. If it has no reinforcement only wood I might think about adding steel bar if guitar worth it. Expensive unless you can do it yourself.
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I have not done compression fretting or the heat-the-fretboard-and-force-it-in-shape trick. I think both are sketchy and pretty unpredictable. I have removed fretboards and replaced them, and I do build new necks.
There are several other options that I think are a whole lot better. Obviously without the guitar in front of me I have to rely on you to be my eyes. It could be as simple as a little corrective work while doing a refret.
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You could carefully clamp the neck and then pull it back to a bit more than your required relief, leave it clamped for over a week.
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Originally Posted by Freeman Keller
The relief with strings to pitch on low e side:
When measuring half way between 1st and 14th 0.026".
Half way between 1st and 21st 0.026".
With strings off: roughly 0.020".
Unbound neck.
Original frets.
Frets OK.
Floating extension. Could be shaved.
Looks like neck has bent a bit at
the heal.
Good neck angle.
Heal block looks solid.
I'd like to use heavier strings than the 11s that are on it now.
There is a steel rod which looks to be about 5mm square and solid.
Can't quite work out why it has had a TRC if there's nothing to adjust under it.
I'm thinking it really needs an adjustable rod. Cheers. ps sorry for duplicated pics.
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Originally Posted by deacon Mark
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Originally Posted by GuyBoden
Do you use any heat in the process?
Do you clamp it with a slight back bow or dead straight?
So it looks like it's sometimes necessary for a guitar with a normal truss rod.
Cheers
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OK, here is what I see. The neck has 20 thousands bow from 70 years of string tension. Putting your normal set of strings on pulls about 6 thousands more. The very simplest thing would be to pull the frets, level the board from one end to the other -dead flat. Refret it with standard wire, I don't see binding so that is a simple operation. String it back up, you should have 6 thousands of relief. My normal acceptable range is 5 to 10. Life is good.
Second option would be to pull the fretboard (again, straightforward with no binding). I use a silicon blanket and a couple of pallet knives, a clothes iron might do it, Level the top of the neck. Install some sort of truss rod (different rods will have different challenges), looks like the headstock access has been taken care of for you. Glue the f/b back on, if the frets are perfect you might get away without replacing them, I would put new ones in. You'll have to touch up the finish on the sides of the neck and fretboard.
Both those are controllable and predictable. The second is a lot more work of course but you get an adjustable truss rod. If it was my guitar I would try the first and see what it gets me.
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Originally Posted by Freeman Keller
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Originally Posted by garybaldy
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Originally Posted by Freeman Keller
I could possibly remove the fret board and install the rod myself but don't think I'd be competent enough to flatten the neck , do the re - gluing and restore any damaged finish. I'd just as well leave the whole job to a pro.
I bought the guitar as a bit of a novelty and, yes, it's turned out to be pretty cool. As is, it plays surprisingly well, stays in tune, has perfect intonation and has a great sound. Some may say the work isn't worth it. I think it could be better. It just needs fatter strings and it needs a stronger neck for that.
In the meantime I may try the clamp technique.
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Has anyone considered replaning the neck? I know it involves a re-fret, but it works with the grain and orientation of the wood as it has come to rest over time. On older guitars, I explore the possibility of re-planing a fingerboard (if it allows as far as fingerboard depth) and taking down localized high points to create a flat fingerboard.
I've had success and it maintains the integrity of the wood and as much of the original guitar as possible.
New fingerboard would be my own second choice if it's really bad.
I respect all the above options. This is my own take.
Good luck
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Originally Posted by garybaldy
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Originally Posted by garybaldy
The clamping method would be what I'd try first, it might work if the guitar is clamped for about a week. (You need a big adjustable clamp.)
Watch this video from about 3:18min
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Originally Posted by Jimmy blue note
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Originally Posted by Tal_175
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Originally Posted by Freeman Keller
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Originally Posted by garybaldy
When I build a neck I make it dead flat on top, install a double acting rod and glue the fretboard on. My experience has been that almost every one has pulled 5 to 7 or 8 thousands with light or medium gauge strings. That is pretty much perfect but the truss rod is there if I need it. The last neck I built I put two CF beams next to the truss rod, it is almost too stiff (I put the rods in to help support the floating extension
I do agree that the ideal situation is to install an adjustable truss rod but as the video shows, it is a heck of a lot of work and is quite invasive. Many guitars were built without adjustable rods (all those "70's Martins are good examples), my feeling is that a simple refret with a little work on the board will give you 70 more years of playing. If it doesn't work, then take the board off and do the next big step.
FWIW here is taking a fretboard off. The red thing underneath is a silicon heating blanket, I'm working pallet knives into the glue seam
It was a neck under construction, the owner wanted a different fretboard and this was the easiest way.
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Originally Posted by Freeman Keller
Always a joy to read your informed posts, by the way.
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Originally Posted by Freeman Keller
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Originally Posted by Jimmy blue note
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Originally Posted by Freeman Keller
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This photo shows the neck joint and elevated f/b. Another photo in this series shows a tall -somewhat elevated bridge. If a reset were ever decided upon for this guitar, would / could the luthier take off some stock at that area and by doing so improve the playability ?
Assuming the top hadn't sunk, and was stable, won't the playability always be dependent on this neck joint dimension and any ' extra ' material that may not have been needed ?
Bass guitar or double bass ? What do you prefer...
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