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When I was at university, I was mocked and made fun of for knowing too many songs when I would call songs at jam sessions only to find out that my peers didn’t know them. I had entered university knowing about 150 songs in all 12 keys, and graduated having learned about 600 in all 12 keys and the lyrics to about 120 of them. Post college, I found that other musicians in town would get offended if I called a song only to find out they didn’t know it. I predominantly accompanied singers during my career prior to my retirement from professional music, so I was never keen on learning horn player tunes.
What I learned from these experiences is don’t be the one to call the tune on a jam session or at a gig, you’re far more likely to offend someone than if you had just kept your mouth shut. YMMV, I spoke with other musicians from other scenes and who went to other universities and it’s possible my experiences may be unique in this regards.
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03-31-2024 07:57 PM
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I can hardly think of a jam where there were no charts or phones or tablets at all. Well, one or two.
Last time I was at one which discouraged charts, I called I Should Care and was asked to call something else because not all the horn players knew it. So, I called Another You and everybody knew that one. There were no music stands. The organist, who was kicking bass, had his phone out with IRealPro. And, as a sitter-in, I only had to play the tunes I called.
Since I don't know the changes to hundreds of tunes, I'd have to turn down an invitation that required no use of IRealPro or other charts -- except I've never been in a situation where anybody made that a requirement. More commonly though, it seems possible to get by with what I do know, which are tunes commonly seen on top 50 jam tune lists, and the like.
I play with working players all the time, jams and gigs, and there are almost always charts. I see regularly working bands with defined repertoire and great players and I usually see charts. Not that they don't know the basic tunes, but they're playing arrangements. Without charts you have to play tunes everybody knows and there's a good chance that the better players are tired of playing them.
Now, there may be a higher level of working player, where everybody knows hundreds of tunes, but I'm not at that level, if it exists. The last time I did a casual at a fancy hotel with some old pros, we played easy standards - and the leader provided charts even though we could have done most of the tunes without them.
Oh. One anecdote comes to mind. I was at a jam at a camp where a prominent musician was a teacher. He showed up to jam and took over. He stopped somebody from handing out charts. "No charts!". He was adamant. Everybody went along. Then he called a lot of obscure tunes, whispered the changes to the bassist (the teacher was playing keys), and everybody else had to figure it out on the fly. The tunes weren't impossible, but they weren't super easy either.
I ended up thinking, "If you're the guy who says no charts, then you shouldn't call any tunes. Let's see how you do when somebody else calls them".
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Originally Posted by JazzerEU
(Some people are also VERY insecure… I don’t think you’d get the reaction from good pro straightahead players, they love to get into a less often played standard.)
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Originally Posted by JazzerEU
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Originally Posted by sgcim
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I don't ever give people a hard time when they pull out the app to read a tune but I will encourage them to just call a different tune they know. I'd rather play Blue Bossa for the 1,000th time with a whole band who knows it then to call obscure tunes that require half the band to have their head buried in the chart.
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They made fun of you for knowing too many tunes?
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Questions, because I've never used a chart in practice, rehearsal, performance, or studio recording.
What falls under "doesn't know a tune"?
Never heard it before?
Never practiced, rehearsed, performed it before (with or without a chart)?
Any of these but still can't play it under any circumstances?
Or is there an expectation that with a chart one should be able to play it?
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Originally Posted by pauln
I think "doesn't know a tune", cannot be defined in a way that will satisfy you. Based on how rigidly you seem take things.
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Originally Posted by AllanAllen
On a gig, there may be arrangements. If there's an arrangement, there bloody well better be charts. I live in NYC, and I've never been to hear a jazz band (not a trio or quartet) that didn't have charts. Wynton Marsalis always has charts for his bands. You can't believe that those cats don't know Satin Doll.
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Any time there isn't a standard, widely accepted definition for a term, there is the potential for a lengthy argument.
For me, "knowing a tune" is somewhere between 1) scuffling through the changes in the key I'm used to while somebody else plays the melody and, at the other extreme, 2) being to play the tune perfectly, melody and harmony, in any key, with the proper feel and all the hits. It may involve knowing different arrangements that are commonly played. Stated another way, whatever there is to know about a tune, you know it.
If somebody asks me on a bandstand if I know a tune, they typically mean the standard key (unless it's a singer) and the usual kind of head arrangement. If I can scuffle through the tune, I'll say I know it and manage. I may have to interpret the head rather than nail the composer's version. If I'm uncertain at all, I'm inclined to pull out Irealpro. I might be a better musician if I didn't do that, but I hate not being able to play the right changes. Anyway, over time, the usual suspects sink in.
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Originally Posted by AllanAllen
I was asking about tune calling common practice expectations and etiquette of others.
(Rigid, really?)
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Another point about reading.
Ever see a big band where the players weren't reading?
If they were reading, did it suck?
I think that it's perfectly possible to play well while reading, if you're used to doing that. Sure, a chart could be too difficult for a particular player, but, on the whole, they're not.
I know one top pro who admits that he likes to have a chart in front of him. He said "it frees me up".
Ideally, everybody would know the tune perfectly and have full attention on the interaction. But, falling short of that, by reading, doesn't necessarily suck.
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Originally Posted by Ukena
Though, I have been to blues jams where a guitar player puts his head down and starts soloing and 7 choruses later, he's still looking at the floor noodling away.
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Originally Posted by pauln
The standard I hold myself to is, I won't call a tune unless I can play the melody and the changes without a sheet in the common key. That is enough for me to know it, but that's only the threshold to get to the starting line.
Now, if I'm at a jam and someone else calls Summer Samba, I can say "I'm familiar with the song, but I don't now the tune" meaning I have heard it but haven't studied it. Then I'll offer to pull up iReal or sit out. Someone once called Lets Fall In Love With Love and I said I don't know that at all and sat out, I didn't even know the song name, let alone have a recording to mentally refer to.
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Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
An effective mnemonic trick for remembering a lot of tunes is by classifying them by their chord changes, as on Ralph Patt's Vanilla Book site.
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Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
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I play in two big bands, sub in another, and in a 4 horn band. Everybody is reading everything. The ensemble passages sound good and so do the solo sections which are rhythm section and horn. I think it helps a lot when you have an aural mental image of what the tune is supposed to sound like, but it works even if you're reading. In fact, the reading probably keeps it more accurate.
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Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
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Originally Posted by AllanAllen
If what you say was actually what was called, and what was played, then I can certainly understand why you wouldn't know it or have a recording of it in your head. Must have been an original composition by someone who everyone else at the jam knew. The internet has no record of the existence of such a song.
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Originally Posted by drbhrb
And, interacting with each other is important in this context, despite the fact that there are charts.
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Yes, I won’t name which university for fear of retribution.
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Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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Originally Posted by Ukena
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Originally Posted by JazzerEU
RIP Nick Gravenites
Today, 05:48 PM in The Players