Making it in the Small Time.. To Gig or Not to Gig

[Spook410]

Turns out if you pursue amateur jazz guitar long enough, you can gig as much as you want. Lots of places in my area need wallpaper jazz. Wine tasting rooms, wineries, and restaurants for the most part. They don't mind backing tracks and loopers. They just want ambience. Not an 'act' that diverts from conversation. That's OK with me. I kind of like playing this sort of background jazz. Feels like subterfuge. Patrons find themselves liking a music they usually don't listen to.

Thing is.. the pay doesn't really make it worth the time. I'm retired and comfortable enough financially. The amount these gigs pay, maybe $50 an hour (playing time), won't make any difference to how I live. Considering travel expense, time spent to get there and set up / tear down, and the idea that I'm showing up with $10K in gear seems to makes you wonder why.

Up side.. have a good reason to learn new tunes and maintain the old ones. Progressing while gigging versus playing at home I find to be quite different. And it gets me out doing things away from the computer. On the other hand, not so sure I care about entertaining anyone and certainly not looking to serve rich agro businesses like wineries. And while I understand the economics from the business stand point and do not feel like live musicians are being somehow cheated, it's easy to feel a bit abused. And it takes away family time on weekends and evenings.

So.. just don't know. I play at friends gatherings (summer parties, weddings) because they're friends and enjoy the overall experience. But now that I'm being sought to gig.. just not sure.

[sgcim]

What area is this?

[pamosmusic]

You don’t want to undercut guys doing it professionally I guess. But honestly $50 an hour is pretty typical for a background gig. I’d expect a good bit more for solo, but that seems about average per person for a trio thing or something. More wouldn’t be crazy, but standards as background music is one of those things that should be pretty low key to play and kind of pays accordingly. I wish it paid better and it certainly should, but that’s not really the reality in a lot of markets.

Caveat: Significantly more for a corporate thing or wedding. Like way more.

[Spook410]

What area is this?

Southern Oregon. Quite a few vineyards. Not a lot else.

[Spook410]

You don’t want to undercut guys doing it professionally I guess. But honestly $50 an hour is pretty typical for a background gig..

If an individuals business plan for making a living involves $100 a couple times a week, they need to revisit the whole deal and find an actual job. As it is, these gigs often go unfilled because the economics just don't work for the business or performer to make it worthwhile. In the end, it's not the money to me. It's the time and effort and whether or not the musical benefits outweigh the effort.

[pamosmusic]

If an individuals business plan for making a living involves $100 a couple times a week, they need to revisit the whole deal and find an actual job. As it is, these gigs often go unfilled because the economics just don't work for the business or performer to make it worthwhile. In the end, it's not the money to me. It's the time and effort and whether or not the musical benefits outweigh the effort.

Uh. Okay?

You asked. Didn’t mean to step on anyone’s toes by answering.

[AllanAllen]

$100 a guy for the night is supposed to be the standard rate. I haven’t made it to that yet.

[sgosnell]

In the end, it's not the money to me. It's the time and effort and whether or not the musical benefits outweigh the effort.

That would seem to be something only you can answer. Some people enjoy playing for others. Some less so. I don't see now we can answer this for you. Do it if you want, don't if you don't.

[pcjazz]

There may be other ways to get out and play with others without that sort of low-level gigging. In Toronto, where I live seven months of the year, there are any number of rehearsal bands at various levels of accomplishment as well as jam sessions etc. For the next few weeks I’ll be driving five or six hours twice a week to play for two or four hours a time, which is a hassle (and expensive!) but it’s worth it to me to secure steady playing opportunities for the rest of the fall and winter. In my case, playing with other committed musicians is more important than performing for an audience — ymmv.

[Spook410]

Uh. Okay?

You asked. Didn’t mean to step on anyone’s toes by answering.

I must have sounded snippy. My apologies. Was not my intention. Found your thoughts interesting and insightful.

[Spook410]

That would seem to be something only you can answer. Some people enjoy playing for others. Some less so. I don't see now we can answer this for you. Do it if you want, don't if you don't.

I know. Posted because this must be a common sort of thing and was wondering how our fellow forumites felt about their own experiences playing wallpaper gigs. Or not playing them.

[pamosmusic]

I must have sounded snippy. My apologies. Was not my intention. Found your thoughts interesting and insightful.

A bit snippy. No worries.

Not sure if I missed it in the post. Are the gigs solo?

[Spook410]

Are the gigs solo?

Yes. Some tunes with backing tracks, some looper, some just guitar. I think they would be more a lot more fun if someone else were involved. But in this area, jazz musicians are rather rare and those that can perform are rarer still.

So.. in New York it's still $50/playing hr? Kind of scary given the difference in cost of living.

[rpjazzguitar]

I think it feels good (to gig) or it doesn't. Or how it feels depends on the context.

I have no idea what to advise someone else.

EDIT: Wallpaper doesn't bother me. I watch to see if people are tapping their feet or otherwise moving in tempo to the music. If I see that, I know the groove is good and people are enjoying the music at some level. I'd rather play a bar with people talking than a concert where everybody is sitting facing the band and not conversing.

[sgcim]

Southern Oregon. Quite a few vineyards. Not a lot else.

Oh, you're right by me in NY!
Just a hop, skip and a jump, and I'll be listening to you play while I drink the vino!

[Liarspoker]

Solo Guitar wall paper gigs are my bag, or at least, were since I haven't played life since last October I think.

€50 per hour was my minimum for markets etc. Some markets pay but you can busk too. They pay a bit less but if you have a good day you can make substantially more.

I also got offered a 3 hour solo gig for €50.

My teaching rate has gone up this term so next spring my playing rates will go up too.

Why bring $10,000 worth of stuff? I bring a guitar, lead and amp and accessories in the guitar case and only take gigs near to me.

I don't teach during the summer months so that's usually my gigging time so that at least I have some money coming in.

[drbhrb]

Unfortunately from what I've heard $100 a person per night has been the going rate... since the 80s

I'm in a similar situation in that financially the gig cash is pretty meaningless considering I work a 9-5 that covers the bills. And I've had the same anguish about gig time vs missed family time or even just relaxation. I now only take gigs based on the music, and I don't take any gigs that are a pain in the ass (travel wise, tux required, event plannner stress, early sound check, these types of things). For me this means no solo gigs whatsoever because that is pure work and no fun for me. I'm mostly showing up to play with other good working musicians.

[AllanAllen]

drbhrb, I feel the same way about solo gigs. If I'm going to play by myself, I'm going to do it at home. Then when I take a break I can lay down on my couch, watch Columbo and dream about walking into the hospital with a lit cigar.

[Sam Sherry]

I say this often -- probably all too often:
"Jazz bassist: Someone who puts a $15,000 instrument into a $1,500 car and drives 150 miles to a $15 gig."

The most effective way for me to improve as a jazz guitarist is to play with other people in public.
Most of the time the opportunity to do that has value beyond measure to me.
When it doesn't, there's no amount of money which compensates for the lost opportunity to snuggle up at home.

[jim777]

I still only gig with the 'dad rock' band I'm in, but a Tele and a Fender Champ 40 will sound the same to most audiences (especially those that are 'there to drink') as an L5 and a Polytone combo. The top shelf fancy gear is completely unnecessary, honestly, IMHO.

[starjasmine]

Tommy Tedesco said that there are three reasons to take any gig: money, connections, or fun.

One way to get past frustration at being ignored on wallpaper gigs might be to look at it as getting paid to practice.

[Spook410]

Why bring $10,000 worth of stuff?

You're right of course. And I failed to mention I also play saxophone. Let's see.. if we do replacement cost in the used market here in the US:

Gibson L5 Studio -$5K
Selmer MkVI Tenor Saxophone - $7K
Acus 350 equivalent (like a Schertler Roy 400) - $2K
Pedal Board with Grace Design Felix, Strymon reverb, amp modeler, Infinity Looper, strobotuner - $2.5K
Apple laptop for backing tracks, MP3, sequencing - $1K
K&K guitar stool, stands, mic, misc - .5K

So.. not $10K. $18K.

It's an expensive hobby. Just feel fortunate I don't play cello when it comes to gear cost.

[rpjazzguitar]

For a full bore gear gig.

Guitar 1900
guitar case 250
pedal board 300
guitar stand 25
music stand 40
light 25
amp 300, 400 or 1000, depending on the volume I need
stool 75
mic 100
mic cable 30
mic stand 35
cables 100
spare strings, picks, tools, strap etc 150
rolling case for most of this 200

[Spook410]

For a full bore gear gig.

Guitar 1900
guitar case 250
pedal board 300
guitar stand 25
music stand 40
light 25
amp 300, 400 or 1000, depending on the volume I need
stool 75
mic 100
mic cable 30
mic stand 3
cables 100
spare strings, picks, tools, strap etc 150
rolling case for most of this 200

Oh yea.. I forget to include a light in my list. Would make it $18,025.

[AllanAllen]

You guys have expensive guitars. I like to go to the bathroom without worrying.