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Originally Posted by Vihar
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12-08-2022 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith
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The peak moves backward on those lines..
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Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith
Compare that to when it's the capacitive load that changes:
That is when the resonance is moving, and this latter is what cables of different length/capacitance do as well.
The OP could do what's used in Gretsch guitars, the so-called "mud switch", a tone switch that can switch two different capacitors across the pickup, and find the values he likes with the 3m Klotz cable and maybe with a longer low capacitance cable, like a 20ft/6m Klotz. In the middle position of the switch, there would be no parallel capacitors in the circuit, that's where he could use his long coily cable.
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What's wrong with dampening the peak? An 100k volume and a tone with a 18-22nf cap that I can adjust is what I prefer to small caps hardwired. A low metering 250k volume for a brighter jazz sound.
Last edited by Bobby Timmons; 12-09-2022 at 03:02 AM.
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Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith
Using more capacitors on a switch will also give him more tonal options without having to permanently reduce the output of his guitar, and without the additional noise the longer cable picks up.
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It's been fun, obsessing over gear for many years. It's a hobby, trying different things adds experience and zest to the journey... but I am finally nearing the end of my various "quests", and am very much looking forward to selling off a bunch of stuff and having only the "winners" here for the future. I wasn't able to purchase some of the more expensive things on my bucket list until recently, this year. After spending more money on gear in one year than ever before, I can honestly say I do NOT regret doing it- because the trying (and really trying- living with; not just playing in a store), has made my gear decisions rooted in experience, and I feel much better about the gear I have, even gear I've had a long time now. It's like I HAD to know... and I couldn't know until I actually TRIED (owned) the stuff.
I will still buy things as life goes on, but I am probably 80% done with my "list" of things I've always wanted to try. And sometime in the future, an ES-125 (or similar) as well as a GA-50/EH-185 (or similar) will be purchased as well... and I'll probably buy 2-3 versions of each until I find THE ones I want to keep.
But I really am looking forward to not messing with gear anymore (as fun as it's been), and just learning/playing more.
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I have been dabbling with measuring and modelling pickups so here for for illustration are some curves for an old Dimarzio PAF type pickup modeled in detail. A 470 pf load is like a modern 9 foot Fender or Gibson cable. The levels have been scaled to be the same at low frequency. Tone is fully up. The tone cap. is 22nF but its value has near zero effect with the tone at full.
Brown 500k tone 500k vol 470pF cable, full volume
Red 500k tone 500k vol 470pF cable, volume 6dB down
Orange 500k tone 250k vol 470pF cable, full volume
Yellow 500k tone 500k vol no cable capacitance, full volume
Green 500k tone 500k vol long cable 1500pF, full volume
An interesting thing is that when you turn the volume pot down a bit, the pickup no longer sees the cable capacitance so its peak, because of the loading of the two pots, is almost eliminated. Instead you have part of the pot resistance and the cable capacitance as a filter cutting the treble. The yellow curve also shows the sort of response there will be at the pickup itself when the volume is 6dB down. The influence of the cable is an important part of the frequency response.
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Originally Posted by ruger9
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It's good to know that it's not "bad" vs "good" cables that can make difference in tone, but long vs short.
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I don't understand the following:
If a long cable sounds better because it has more capacitance, then why can't you get the same sound from a short cable by rolling off your guitar's treble pot, to basically match the capacitance?
If we draw the circuit diagram, the capacitance of the cable looks like a capacitor between the hot lead and ground. Isn't that exactly what the tone control's capacitor looks like in the diagram? Or am I misunderstanding this?
My experience has been similar in that on some gigs I hate my tone and I don't know why. OTOH, it's consistent in my practice room.
So, I think the stage plot and the room have a lot to do with it.
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Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
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Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
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For real, here's an interesting article:
The Vintage Coiled-Cable Simulator Mod - Premier Guitar
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And Radial Engineering has their "Dragster" which does exactly that.
Dragster - Radial Engineering
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Originally Posted by ruger9
the Dragster is a variable
input impedance device
(not a variable capacitance device)
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Years ago, when I was studying electrical engineering, I actually built a rack unit effect that did nothing, it just had a bunch of buttons, dials, leds and lights in the front that would light up when you played. Looked glorious, I think I sold it to someone eventually
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Originally Posted by Alter
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Originally Posted by Groyniad
I think a lot of the “gear problems” that players complain about arise from failure to understand if, how, and by how much every part in your rig can affect your sound and/or your playing. Some of this is poor communication from manufacturers, eg the Klotz slant that their low capacitance cables are somehow better, when in fact they’re just different. But a lot of it is simple unawareness of important things, which can be fixed by doing a bit more homework. The cable is just another “tone cap” in the signal chain, in that it’s a shunt to ground for the highs within its passband. So yes, rpjg, rolling off the tone pot will have a similar effect.
When you encounter a term whose significance you don’t know, don’t ignore it - Google it. Even wireless rigs are available with onboard “compensation” for the capacitance of the cable they replace. The one you choose can affect your sound just as the OP’s Klotz did. There are good reasons for using low cap cables - they have a flatter pass band that extends higher. This is good for effects of many kinds - it livens up reverb, gives more complex distortion, etc and lets the full spectrum from active pickups reach the electronics. But it can also turn very bright pickups into sonic ice picks in your ears.
You have to know what you want and how to get it.
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NASA and SpaceX could join up to create the ultimate pickup and electronics system for the guitar.
And they'd go to capture every nuance up to 10GHz... Yet it cant beat a Tele. Banged together in the 60's.
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Originally Posted by emanresu
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[QUOTE]NASA and SpaceX could join up to create the ultimate pickup and electronics system for the guitar. And they'd go to capture every nuance up to 10GHz[/QUOTE]
After they designed and built it and proved how great it sounded in painstakingly produced video footage aired on national television they would proceed to misplace and lose most of the documentation and design plans for the entire project. People would begin to doubt the claims but employees with high security clearances would testify to it's amazing tonal properties. 50 years later they would promise they would build it again but it would never materialize.
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After NASA discovered that their ball-point pens didn't work in weightlessness, they started a multi-million dollar project to develop a pen that would work in weightlessness, upside-down, under water, you name it. The Russians used a pencil.
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Both NASA and the Russians bought their pens from the Fisher Pen Company.
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Originally Posted by Groyniad
Mouser caps.
would do, such as this one which is quite small:
likely cap
and would be ideal.
Place this stub between any short cable and the amp. The short cable will then behave like the long cable. The value 1n5 is a guess from the length of the cable but is most likely correct.
RIP Nick Gravenites
Today, 05:48 PM in The Players