-
Why is it that no self-respecting PA owner doesn't have, and use, poles to elevate the speakers.
And yet, most guitarists have their amps on the floor. Now and then tilted back, or on a short stand, but not as high as an average PA.
I'm aware that there was the Ampeg Fountain of Sound and a few other exceptions, but the most frequent thing I see is amp on the floor, or close.
So, why are we so ground bound? Or, alternatively, why are they bothering with poles?
-
09-11-2022 04:38 AM
-
Well, the simple and probably in most cases accurate explanation: habit and laziness.
But there is also a somewhat more complicated factual explanation. Sound propagates differently in the so-called free field, i.e. an environment without reflecting surfaces, than when reflecting surfaces are present.
If a loudspeaker is placed on the floor, the sound radiates along a surface (the floor). Simplified, you can think of it as half of a horn. This leads to an increase of the bass frequencies by theoretically 3dB.
This effects only the bass as higher frequent sounds travel in a straight line vs. bass sounds that propagate in all directions. So treble doesn't interact with the reflecting surface as long as you don't point the speaker at it. But one does the opposite. Tilting the amp backwards helps hearing your own treble frequencies better.
Whereby the upward lifting of the medium / high frequency speakers in PA systems is motivated differently. People as a group absorb sound. If I want to supply a larger number of people with sound, I have to make sure that these sound waves are also transmitted to the back rows.
That's why you put the tweeters/midrange speakers so high that they can be heard over the heads all the way to the back row. The bass speakers (sub-woofers), on the other hand, are placed on the floor (at very large events even often under the stage) and also use the above-mentioned effect, although this is rather negligible with horn-driven sub-woofers.
Rule of thumb: If you want a fuller, more rounded sound with more bass, place the amplifier on the floor. If you want to make sure that the higher frequencies reach the audience, make sure that they don't get caught in the trouser legs of the first two rows, put the amp up high.
:-)Last edited by DonEsteban; 09-11-2022 at 06:13 AM.
-
There is also the weight factor. Making tripods sturdy enough for a 42 pound Deluxe adds significant weight to be hauled around, amd Twin-class amps are right out, as you'd need a crane to hoist them into position.
For my money, tilt back legs (and FOH) are the practical solution for most venues. Outdoors, all bets are off.
-
The sound suffers too. As soon as you put an amp on a stand, you lose a lot of bass, which most of the time isn't what you want.
I've had an amp stand in the trunk for a while, but it was yet another thing to carry, and wasn't really needed. Chairs do fine. And people bump on things at gigs, so amps stay close to the floor!
-
Replies much appreciated!
I have vastly more experience with the amp on the floor, but some of the best tone-nights I've ever had were with the guitar going through the PA, with elevated speakers.
As an audience member listening to a band with a guitarist whose amp is on the floor, I often find myself thinking the sound is too muddy, meaning more bass than I want to hear. I assume that it sounds better on stage and the guitarist is unaware of how muddy the sound is in the audience. Perhaps that problem would be mitigated by elevating the speaker. Or maybe just by tilting it back (which not everybody does).
-
If you play in a bigger venue / festival you can ask for a tipped (turned so it stands on the smaller side) mic stand flightcase and put your amp on top of it.
EDIT: Could be any bigger case like e.g. a moving lights case as well.
-
Some guitar stagecraft has been forgotten from the old days.
The invention of the tilt back amps allowed you preventing other musicians from placing their drinks and ashtrays on top.
The low level inputs labeled "2" (-6dB) were used for sound check, then the guitarist moved the cord to "1" for the show.
Guitar amps were positioned under the drum kit's hi-hat so both guitarist and drummer heard each other in synchrony.
-
If you check the photos of Charlie Christian playing, you'll notice that he almost always had his amp up high, on a chair or even on the top of an upright piano, whatever he could use to get it up high, where both he and the audience could hear it. But putting a Twin Reverb on top of a piano, or a high stool, or anywhere that high is more effort than I could manage, even when I was younger. Amps got really heavy, so they stayed on the floor, and that just became the accepted position for them. At least that's the first explanation that comes to mind.
-
That's an interesting point about the hi hat. One bassist I know prefers to set up right next to the hi hat. He says it helps him to keep the time together.
Originally Posted by pauln
-
That's why I gravitated to the Bose Compact years ago as my guitar amp: it has the subwoofer in the power base, but the treble/midrange speakers sit in a couple of extensions that get them above the heads of the audience, so you lose no bass frequencies but get the line array dispersion of the higher frequencies all over the room. It's a minor miracle as it also has a nice mic input with separate preamp, so singing or running a horn through it is easy. While it has no effects and minimal EQ, it's small and convenient enough that adding a small pedalboard or multi-effects unit adds little to your load-in weight. For solo or small-group gigs it's perfect, and for larger venues, there is a 1/4" output to go to the house PA. Very high fidelity, superb for amplifying elecro-acoustic guitars of all kinds.
-
When the source location for two instruments are coincident, then both musicians can adjust so that both hear the sounds of each as coincident. At that point, the synchronous sounds are coming from the same location, so the other musicians and the audience will all also hear them in synchrony. Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
A lot of slow R&B tunes have the drummer tap the closed hi-hat on each "four of six" in unison with the guitarist playing a fast little "chuck" sounding stab chord on the thin strings. Like this...
1 2 3 4 5 6 1 2 3 4 5 6...
or on the "one and the and of two"...
1 a 2 a 3 a 4 a 1 a 2 a 3 a 4 a...
and a few other variations.
When synchronized just right, the effect is that the hi-hat masks the guitar chord attack and all you really hear is the hi-hat and the ambient sound of the guitar chord, as if the hi-hat strikes produced harmony. The only way to get that synchrony illusion is to push your amp into the kit under the hi-hat. First time, you should ask the drummer if this is OK... they will insist on it from then on.
-
The high hat has always been my synch point. Originally Posted by pauln
-
In the 90s I played in a professional Top 40 band and the drummer bought an e-drum. Nightmare when your hear the drummer only out of your wedge monitor... I refuse playing with e-drummers today... though here in Spain they make them obligatory in certain tourist towns (Noise protection bla bla bla) Originally Posted by citizenk74
The high hat has always been my synch point.
-
Lately, at gigs I have been putting my amp on a card table when available or straddling two chairs. I think I and the audience hear it better. I notice that in those situations I end up dialing the bass done significantly compared to when I place it on the floor at home. Originally Posted by sgosnell
-
I do know a few guys (not jazz players though) who play with a pair of FRFR speakers on stands. They go from a Fractal/Helix/Kemper into a pair of those powered headrush cabinets and play in stereo. If you have the Fractal/Helix/Kemper stuff already, then you can get 2 powered headrush cabs for ~$600 or so, not sure how much the stands cost.
Reply With Quote
"Quail Bait" by Barney Kessel... help?
Today, 12:25 PM in The Songs