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  1. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzkritter
    If it stops someone doing something terrible to a child, or catches a miscreant, seems like a good deal. IMHO.
    There are officials who're paid to do that work, it's not up to us to volunteer for being considered a miscreant. The worse part is when you cast suspicion on yourself when you refuse to play the game, something actual "miscreants" who have reason to believe their prints might be in the system somewhere are bound to do.

    I see the US hasn't improved in the 20 (!) years since Bowling for Columbine...

    EDIT: glad I grew up in a time where schools and universities were open places!

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  3. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmy blue note
    fingerprint inks contain nanobots that take over your brain and make you into nazi commonist zombie droids. This is the way it works. I think there was proof from a source i saw in a senate hearing.
    I knew it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  4. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marinero
    Wow, J,
    Things have sure changed in Chi since the 70's!
    Marinero
    A lot of bad stuff happened in the '70s too.

  5. #29

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    If anything goes wrong with a teacher or volunteer and there is no background check there is hell to pay for the School District.

  6. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    In the district where I teach, anybody who works in a school and could have even minimal contact with students undergoes a background check, takes a TB test, and gets fingerprinted.

    If you are going to work in a school, its par for the course. I wouldn't want anyone working with or near my kids who didn't. The world is a fucked up place. Protecting our kids is important.
    It rankles, hard, but I defer to your front-line knowledge. If you want the gig, you dance the jig, I guess.

  7. #31

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    I have been fingerprinted for so many government licenses (and also that time I was wrongfully arrested in the 80's) that one more set being out there would make no difference to me if I wanted the gig.

    Pretty soon fingerprints will probably be obsolete and they will check everyone for most anything with a retina scanner. The only thing Orwell missed with "1984" was the date. If he had called the book "2034", he might have hit the nail on the head.

  8. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stringswinger
    I have been fingerprinted for so many government licenses (and also that time I was wrongfully arrested in the 80's) that one more set being out there would make no difference to me if I wanted the gig.

    Pretty soon fingerprints will probably be obsolete and they will check everyone for most anything with a retina scanner. The only thing Orwell missed with "1984" was the date. If he had called the book "2034", he might have hit the nail on the head.

    The Chinese are way ahead of us on this, but I'm confident that we'll catch up.

    USA!
    USA!

  9. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by citizenk74
    It rankles, hard, but I defer to your front-line knowledge. If you want the gig, you dance the jig, I guess.
    I agree. For a one-shot event with people the OP never played with, it seems too intrusive to be worth the trouble.

  10. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stringswinger
    they will check everyone for most anything with a retina scanner.
    How dark do your glasses have to be not to leave retinal imprints on everything you look at?

  11. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan0996
    A lot of bad stuff happened in the '70s too.
    Hi, J,
    No fingerprints . . . backgrounds checks, etc. in Chi in the 70's. Big brother is becoming a reality.
    Marinero

    P.S. And now Biden has established a "Ministry Of Truth?" Power to the people comrade . . . power to the people! Ya think they'll look at Hunter's dealings with his father? M

  12. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by RJVB
    How dark do your glasses have to be not to leave retinal imprints on everything you look at?
    This brought the image of Medusa to mind. I don't know if my mirrored aviator sunglasses would be up to the task. I had a fourth-grade teacher whose baleful glance could freeze-dry the blood in your veins, and that was bad enough. [shivers]

  13. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnoL
    If anything goes wrong with a teacher or volunteer and there is no background check there is hell to pay for the School District.
    Correct. The school district gets sued and might have to pay-out millions. There is a liability issue here and it is likely their insurance requires a background check based on a finger-print.

    What surprises me is all the overreaction by so many here (well maybe not since here in the USA we are in the age of everyone-wishes-to-oppress-me).

  14. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    In the district where I teach, anybody who works in a school and could have even minimal contact with students undergoes a background check, takes a TB test, and gets fingerprinted.

    If you are going to work in a school, its par for the course. I wouldn't want anyone working with or near my kids who didn't. The world is a fucked up place. Protecting our kids is important.

    Yep, Mr. B got it! My wife has worked in elementary and high school systems for several years, and anyone working around the kids for any reasonable amount of time (i.e., part-time coach, classroom volunteer, etc.) typically goes through this process. It's certainly not a "personal attack," it's typically the law/rule.

  15. #39

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    I guess since they are not race or gender issues, things like that don't seriously bother anyone in the US? So it is a legal thing to require? Here it would just sound unbelievable.

  16. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alter
    I guess since they are not race or gender issues, things like that don't seriously bother anyone in the US? So it is a legal thing to require? Here it would just sound unbelievable.
    Parents want their children to be protected from child molesters. When a child is under the custody of a 3rd party (e.g. school district), that 3rd party has a legal duty to protect said child.

    What sounds 'unbelievable' to you? The fact that a background check is performed?

    For those in Britain; is a finger-print background check required to purchase a gun? Just curious what situations call for that type of background check.
    Last edited by jameslovestal; 05-01-2022 at 06:43 PM.

  17. #41

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    Not seeing the dilemma. Ever read the case of Jimmy Savile in the UK who had the whole nation fooled for decades? He's one case in a billion (?), but if these checks go some way towards preventing abuse of children, they're a no-brainer, in the opinion of this parent.

    Just turn it down?

  18. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by jameslovestal;[URL="tel:1195539"
    1195539[/URL]]
    What surprises me is all the overreaction by so many here (well maybe not since here in the USA we are in the age of everyone-wishes-to-oppress-me).
    Actually, by my count most of the opposition to this practice seems to be coming from people who live elsewhere in the world. The U.S. citizens here mostly seem okay with it. Apparently the country that saw fit to make civil liberties such a prominent feature in its constitution is now willing to trade them for perceived security. Eh, times change.

    As for myself, I don’t see this as oppressive. However, I do think it’s needlessly intrusive and unlikely to be effective. And I think it conflicts with our culture of liberty. If you want to weed out potential molesters before the fact, a background check is far more likely to find them. I also think they’ve been hamhanded about this. If this is a priority for them they should notify contractors at the outset, before they begin prepping for the show. They should also provide a clear and simple way to comply. I still don’t know where I’m supposed to go to get this fingerprinting done.

    I didn’t mean to set off a big heated left vs. right political debate here. To me it’s just a straightforward question of how to appropriately manage contractors and mitigate risk.

    I’m still not sure what I’ll do, but I’ll probably make nice and
    play along, if only to avoid making the MDs job impossible. Thanks to everyone for your input.

  19. #43

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    Unfortunately, there are two things at work here. One is the readiness of residents of the USA to sue anyone for anything, something that doesn't happen anywhere else in the world. Lawsuits that would get the plaintiff a stiff fine in the UK for wasting the court's time end up, in the USA, costing both plaintiff and defendant a lot of money, even if the case is dropped. And too often the plaintiff just wears the defendant down with legal bills.

    The other thing is the relative ease of getting false ID papers in this country. Known child molesters and felons of all persuasions are fingerprinted upon capture. Unfortunately, innocent people who are arrested are also fingerprinted. At any rate, any of those parties who changed his or her ID would still have fingerprints on file. I suspect the purpose of this particular scheme in the OP is to check the database for previous offenders.

    In the 80's, thousands of schoolchildren around the country were fingerprinted en masse, partly as a result of Reagan's signing into law the Missing Children's Act (to be fair, the law was sponsored by Paul Simon, D-IL-24). When I was a boy scout for a year in 1961, I went to a jamboree where all the scouts got fingerprinted at an FBI demonstration. I have absolutely no idea if those prints are still on file somewhere.

    But personally, as someone who has taught in grade school (and high school and college) with no children being hurt, I would pass on this gig, even with the musical theatre in my blood.

  20. #44

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    Some of the posts here are hilarious.

    You're so concerned about your freedoms...there are none! You're not free! None of us are. What a joke. You don't want to be treated like a criminal? Too bad, this is 2022. Just don't, y'know,...do crime. Then you got 'em. They got nothing on ya.

    America can have its civil liberties back when we stop killing each other and fucking children. Til then, too fucking bad. Look what we do with "muh freedoms!" Mass graves outside of major cities in Ukraine, people dying dreaming of the freedoms we have, and we fucking ruin it with our addiction to guns and violence and our desire to control, while our "religon" represses any smidgen of sexuality until people act it out on the unwilling and those unable to defend themselves. Disgusting.

    Take my blood, scan my retina, I don't care. I've got nothing to hide, and nobody's coming for me. If I ever get accused of bullshit, my fingerprints and DNA are going to exonerate me, because I don't do bad stuff.

    And until sick fucks stop preying on children, I'm just gonna be okay with that.
    Last edited by mr. beaumont; 05-02-2022 at 12:44 AM.

  21. #45

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    If it were me, I wouldn't care. I'm not philosophically opposed to being open that I'm not a criminal. Plus why not protect the kids? There are a lot of bad people out there. If you're good, then why care?

  22. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by jameslovestal
    For those in Britain; is a finger-print background check required to purchase a gun? Just curious what situations call for that type of background check.
    In the UK, as far as I know, fingerprints are not required, but there are background criminal checks by the police as well as interviews and home visits before you can get a firearms license. Even then you are usually only allowed to own a shotgun or a rifle.

    To work in schools you need a DBS license (my wife has one), as I recall you fill out loads of details online and they check your background. No fingerprints involved though.

  23. #47

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    Australia is as far as I can see very similar to Britain’s approach (no surprise). Our working with Kids number is state issued and transferable from job to job. I.E. each institution sources its info from the same point. It’s not just schools- anywhere kids may be involved. Music teachers included.
    what would bug me is my personal ID info instead duplicated and the chain of custody of that info. Especially something like DNA or fingerprint details. Does the schools admin have its act together to maintain this info on your behalf? For how long? What is the disposal strategy here?Just think on the possible criminally implicating downsides if your fingerprints were in the wrong hands. Would a future background check on you be threatened?

    There is a need to make sure those in custody of our children can be trusted. There is a balance that we need to strike. I think our different underlying societies will dictate that balance on their terms.
    EM

  24. #48

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    Obvious to me that children are the real problem. Stop having children. Problem solved.

  25. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan0996
    The U.S. citizens here mostly seem okay with it. Apparently the country that saw fit to make civil liberties such a prominent feature in its constitution is now willing to trade them for perceived security.
    One can debate to what extent US citizens NOT living somewhere off the grid were ever really free - AFAIK there's always been an enormous (stiffling, I'd say) amount of social control, for a large part based in religious ideas. To that you can add decades of institutionalised fearmongering - I'm with Michael Moore's conclusions on this. Sadly the fact that just about every new TV series is yet another glorification of police and justice system where criminals always get caught has become a global thing.

    Maybe we should run a poll, just out of curiosity. I think the average age here is high enough that few if any of us went to school in a time of such perceived need for drastic protect measures. Who feels their lives would have been so much better if they had had a similar kind of protection.
    I for one am glad I did not. I hate being coccooned (barely survived the lock-up approach to covid here, and am intent on leaving this country if a professional opportunity allows that). I am in fact convinved that with all those measures being absent they also didn't inspire the susceptible to go out and try to beat the system...


    Quote Originally Posted by EastwoodMike
    Especially something like DNA or fingerprint details. Does the schools admin have its act together to maintain this info on your behalf? For how long? What is the disposal strategy here?Just think on the possible criminally implicating downsides if your fingerprints were in the wrong hands. Would a future background check on you be threatened?
    Exactly! For one thing: the technology to duplicate fingerprints and create fake fingers must be becoming more easily available. Not only can that compromise the safety of print-based device locks, imagine if it becomes possible to put fingerprints on gloves. Instead of not leaving any prints you now leave someone else's prints. It'd be like joyriding in a stolen car, except how, when and why are/would you report your prints as stolen?

    IIRC there was a lot of debate here in Europe when the US introduced biometric passports or made them compulsory for entry?
    In fact, when the vaccination/sanitary "passport" became a thing here last year many people were also all riled up about having to show private information to people not supposed to have access to it (legally, only the national police can perform ID checks here). And the information in that QR code only contains your name, birth date and the date plus type of c-virus vaccination.

  26. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jabberwocky
    Obvious to me that children are the real problem. Stop having children. Problem solved.
    That would solve so many problems ... the planet thanks you!