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  1. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Miller View Post
    I like it when people just go with there not being a bass and just accept it and work with it.

    For me the quintessential exemplar of drums/piano/sax. Probably Scott’s inspiration

    This is savage. Nat King Cole on piano?!

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop View Post
    Dave McKenna actually made 2 records like that with Scott Hamilton, here’s one of them:

    Also fantastic.

  4. #78

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    Last edited by Clint 55; 09-11-2021 at 05:20 PM.

  5. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clint 55 View Post
    This is savage. Nat King Cole on piano?!
    Yes

  6. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit View Post
    That’s true for many rock players who are / were far more than they seemed. For example, Duane Allman was a stellar guitarist and musician who played any style well. Buddy Guy’s acoustic fingerstyle playing is very fine, although I never heard him play jazz. Mickey Baker was only known to most people as half of Mickey and Sylvia. Jimmy Bruno’s father played with Frank Virtue and the Virtues, (biggest hit was Guitar Boogie Shuffle, 1959 - I don’t think he was on that date) but he was far more than a simple rock guitarist. Phil Upchurch played fine jazz guitar, although he wasn’t the most sophisticated soloist.
    Joe Pass, at a gig:
    "Phil Upchurch just walked in. Now I'm nervous!"

  7. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by citizenk74 View Post
    Joe Pass, at a gig:
    "Phil Upchurch just walked in. Now I'm nervous!"
    The truth is that we often haven't a clue about how good someone is or how broad his / her musical knowledge may be from hearing their bread and butter work. Those of you who went to Berklee years ago may know or know of a fellow graduate named Billy Baltera. He's been a quiet standout in the local and national blues scenes for decades, with boundless creativity, amazing taste, and beautiful playing. Billy's written, arranged, produced and played for many fine front people over the years and is truly great (in addition to being one of the nicest people I've ever met). I've had the pleasure of sharing a stage with him on a fair number of gigs over the years, and we've talked about a lot of stuff. But the only music we ever talked was the blues, and the only guitar I ever saw him play was his beloved LP Custom.

    Back in the 90s, I had a Sunday brunch duo gig at a French cafe in center city Philly and played it for a few years with a wonderful keyboard player. Fitting right into this thread, he insisted on dragging his Rhodes everywhere, along with a JC120, despite the fact that the place had a decent upright piano kept in good tune. Sadly, he pased away suddenly and I was left with an empty sideman spot to fill on short notice. Right after John died, I had a gig along with Billy backing Lonnie Shields. Out of curiosity I asked Billy if he played any jazz - and he replied "a little". So I asked if he was interested in doing a two guitar date with me at the cafe, and he said he was.

    He showed up with a fat archtop and played his @ss off!

  8. #82

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    The world seems full of players that deny they play jazz while being better at it than me haha.

  9. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Miller View Post
    The world seems full of players that deny they play jazz while being better at it than me haha.
    Welcome to the club - there's a lot of that going around!

    Piano trio vs guitar trio-imnoangel-courtroomscene1-jpg
    "No, your honor - I'm trying to hide it!"

  10. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit View Post
    The truth is that we often haven't a clue about how good someone is or how broad his / her musical knowledge may be from hearing their bread and butter work.

    I had a gig along with Billy backing Lonnie Shields. Out of curiosity I asked Billy if he played any jazz - and he replied "a little". So I asked if he was interested in doing a two guitar date with me at the café, and he said he was.

    He showed up with a fat archtop and played his @ss off!
    I assume he knew enough "common" jazz standards for there to be common-ground. For me that has been the key; I've meet musicians that are a lot more skilled than me (e.g. their technique is better), but they know no jazz standards and they are used to playing songs "their way" (typically rock songs that they play as close to the original recordings as possible). I know many rock songs so I name some to play but I ask that we play them differently (especially if there isn't anyone that can sing the song). E.g. no need to repeat verse after verse but instead lets do a two-chord vamp.

    Sometimes this works but most of the time it is like pulling teeth and we end up just playing blues in either E or Am.
    Last edited by jameslovestal; 09-07-2021 at 02:20 PM.

  11. #85

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    Quote Originally Posted by jameslovestal View Post
    I assume he knew enough "common" jazz standards for there to be common-ground.
    I was amazed at the depth of his knowledge - he knew more standards cold than most of my jazzy friends and fellow sidepeople, and he hadn't played most of them for years. The ones he didn't know he sight-read from a ratty old fake book! It was one of the most enjoyable playing experiences I've ever had, and he expressed the same thought. Unfortunately, he was playing Saturday night blues gigs most weeks, many of which were quite a way from Philly - and an 11 AM Sunday start was a bit of a stretch after getting to bed only a few hours before.

  12. #86

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar View Post
    From what I gather, Joey DeFrancesco often (always? couldn't tell) kicked bass. He did when I saw him at Dizzy's pre Covid. Jimmy Smith too. As I understand it, guitar/organ/drums was a popular trio format in the 50s and 60s.
    Oooh, yes! Both Joey D and JS make that pedal board sing. I have no quarrel with no-bass bass when it's that tight and tasteful. Sadly, many organists make even the funkiest tunes sound like background music at a roller rink with their 2 beat pedal droning or rudimentary left hand bass. Joey D is on some albums with a bass player, but I sure don't miss one when he's doing it himself.

    The classic "organ trio" was a B3 and a drummer with either a tenor player or a guitarist, and an amazing number of our idols (like George Benson and Pat Martino) played in that setting at one point in their careers. I first met Pat Martino when he played with Willis "Gatortail" Jackson at the Club Harlem in Atlantic City NJ in the summer of 1964. I was 17 and he's 2 years older than me - so when I went to hear him, both of us were in the club illegally

    My own organ trio was playing 7 nights a week at the Golden Inn in Avalon, NJ that summer. The organist lived down there for the summer, but the drummer and I drove back and forth to Atlantic City every night. So if we weren't too tired, we could hit the last shows and after-hours sessions before going home and crashing. Those were the days!!!
    Last edited by nevershouldhavesoldit; 09-08-2021 at 05:53 PM.

  13. #87

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    Quote Originally Posted by citizenk74 View Post
    Joe Pass, at a gig:
    "Phil Upchurch just walked in. Now I'm nervous!"
    Interesting remark, C,
    I never thought of Phil as a Jazzer. We were playing around Chicago at the same time in the 60's/70's and he was the "go to" guitarist for R@B/Soul gigs and recordings. Anyone have any of his Jazz recordings to share? The closest I found was "Take Five" (2:45 and 3:34 to 3:50) that he recorded much later in 2001. In this recording you hear mainly hardcore R@B licks.
    Play live . . . Marinero


  14. #88

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marinero View Post
    Interesting remark, C,
    I never thought of Phil as a Jazzer. We were playing around Chicago at the same time in the 60's/70's and he was the "go to" guitarist for R@B/Soul gigs and recordings. Anyone have any of his Jazz recordings to share?
    I have what may be his only straight ahead jazz album (Dolphin Dance - trio with bass & drums on Paddlewheel Records vinyl, 1987). In addition the title tune, he does Django, Sister Sadie, All Blues, Love for Sale, and Embraceable You. I couldn’t find it on YouTube but it’s available on CD from a few of the usual sources.

    As I said earlier, he’s not the most sophisticated jazz soloist and there’s certainly nothing exciting on this one. I bought it out of curiosity and have probably listened to it half a dozen times in 30+ years, usually to satisfy the curiosity of other guitarists.

  15. #89

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    Quote Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit View Post
    I have what may be his only straight ahead jazz album (Dolphin Dance - trio with bass & drums on Paddlewheel Records vinyl, 1987). In addition the title tune, he does Django, Sister Sadie, All Blues, Love for Sale, and Embraceable You. I couldn’t find it on YouTube but it’s available on CD from a few of the usual sources.

    As I said earlier, he’s not the most sophisticated jazz soloist and there’s certainly nothing exciting on this one. I bought it out of curiosity and have probably listened to it half a dozen times in 30+ years, usually to satisfy the curiosity of other guitarists.
    Hi, N,
    I think Joe P may have said the above remark as "tongue in cheek." Phil was a very experienced jobber. I don't believe he is a JG soloist and he might even agree. One of my drummers played with him on a couple gigs in the 70's. He's a Chicago legend.
    Play live . . . Marinero

  16. #90

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    I saw Phil Upchurch play as part of Jimmy Smith's trio that toured in the early 2000's. He sounded pretty damn good. Jazz guitar may not have been his bread and butter, but he could do it very well. I do not think his recorded output does his jazz guitar playing justice.

    Regarding the Joe Pass quote, it was probably just Joe being funny. Other than Wes Montgomery, I doubt any jazz guitarist who lived in Joe's time made him "nervous".

  17. #91

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stringswinger View Post
    I saw Phil Upchurch play as part of Jimmy Smith's trio that toured in the early 2000's. He sounded pretty damn good. Jazz guitar may not have been his bread and butter, but he could do it very well. I do not think his recorded output does his jazz guitar playing justice.

    Regarding the Joe Pass quote, it was probably just Joe being funny. Other than Wes Montgomery, I doubt any jazz guitarist who lived in Joe's time made him "nervous".
    I think Jim Hall said he spent an entire afternoon in Frisco trying to get Wes Montgomery's thumb caught in a car door.

  18. #92

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar View Post
    An average pianist can front a pbd trio effectively. He chords with his left hand and plays melody with his right -- at a minimum.

    The audience hears melody and comping.

    Consider the guitarist in that position. There may be a few guys (probably with some classical guitar technique) who can actually comp and solo at the same time like a pianist, but most players, even pros, can't do that. Instead, the guitarist creates an illusion of it. It's not easy to do and it's certainly not easy to do for a whole show and keep it interesting. Done well it's great. I'd probably rate "Get Me Joe Beck" as high as any piano trio playing the same material. Reg can do it, but I don't know many others.
    I had an accomplished pro tell me once that, after mastering and using the comp and solo technique, he got tired of explaining to audience members that ' no that wasn't a looper - that was me '..... ..It must've been disheartening to hear stuff like that....