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01-23-2020 12:26 AM
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Yeah, not sure what it's all about but here's the regular text on AB5.
Bill Text - AB-5 Worker status: employees and independent contractors.
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California, where more gov't in your life is always better. Where guitar amps have warnings they might cause cancer....true.
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Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo
I'll try to summarize one the issue to musicians of that AB5: If you get a group of musicians together to play a single gig at the local bar (in California), you are an employer and the rest of the group are your employees which requires extra taxes and benefits to be paid and additional accounting requirements like W-2s, W-4s etc.. Same thing if you hire a drummer to play on a track you are recording. Seems the studio musicians will have a whole bunch of employers every year. Many professions got exemptions but not musicians.Last edited by fep; 01-23-2020 at 10:45 AM.
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I smell "T-R-O-U-B-L-E."
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yup this state and Grusome are fucking whacked.
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Won't enforcement be difficult in most situations where musicians perform?
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Originally Posted by Gitfiddler
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I am both a bandleader and a sideman here in California. I am also still a licensed attorney here as well. The law is well intended, but will have unfortunate unintended consequences. That said, it is not as dire as many have predicted. If you are playing at a restaurant or bar where music is not part of the venue's primary business model, you should still qualify as an independent contractor, especially if you do less than 30 gigs at that venue a year. Bandleaders should be careful about their chosen sidemen. If the sideman does not work for anyone else, he/she could be considered an employee.
The law gave many professions a pass, but musicians did not get that pass (thanks to lobbying efforts by the Musicians unions), so care will be necessary for both venue owners and bandleaders to ensure that independent contractor status applies, but the sky is not falling (yet) Chicken Little.
IMO, ASCAP and BMI are far more dangerous to the small venue gigs than this new bill.
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Vegas is hiring.
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Originally Posted by fathand
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Originally Posted by Cunamara
I have not lost any gigs (yet) to this new law, but a bandleader that I work for has lost a gig due to the coronavirus pandemic. The hotel that we played in (by the San Francisco Airport) has lost so much business from the slowdown in air travel that they ended his 6 year long gig.
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Originally Posted by Stringswinger
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Because Wall Street is mostly a bunch of ninnies who overreact to everything good or bad, who knows whether the coronavirus outbreak is going to be good or bad for the stock market.
SS, it's an interesting point and that issue may of course end up being tested in court. Back in the big band era it was quite clear that the musicians were in the employ of the bandleader. It's unlikely that anyone writing the bill particularly thought about gigging musicians. Thousands of businesses try to get out of tax liabilities by hiring "independent contractors," offloading those obligations onto the workers, which prompted the IRS to issue specific guidance 25 or so years ago about who is and who is not an independent contractor versus employee. My own employer did that for years until his accountant and lawyer finally convinced him to stop. We all worked full time, had no other employment, followed his policies and procedures, etc. It would have been a slam dunk against him in court. But not all states have reconciled their own laws to match federal law in this regard.
If a venue has the same bandleader or musicians working on their premises week in and week out, there is a very good case that they are in fact employees of the venue or of the bandleader- especially if they are not working elsewhere. The IRS would probably have it so under their guidance, and the California law may being the state into greater compliance with federal law (remember that federal law trumps state law). If there are 52 bandleaders in a year, no problem I suspect.
Whether it hurts gigging musicians or not depends on whether musicians are seen as adding substantive value to the venue's bottom line. In many cases, the musicians probably cost the venue more than they bring in in extra revenue. Locally for many gigs the band has to provide a tax ID number to the venue to get paid, whether that is the bandleader personally or a corporation they've set up. The venue pays by check and their accountants keep track.
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Originally Posted by Cunamara
AB-5 stinks for professional jazz musicians. It will not help us a whit and has the potential to cause us harm.But like I posted above, the sky ain't falling yet.
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CA is doing this for the tax revenue..as its in financial trouble due to many issues..so if your a working musician in some cities in CA ..your working hard just to pay the rent..
if your considered an emplayee..find out all you can how that classification is determined..when I (and many other players) were doing small clubs/bar bands etc..we were paid mostly in cash and were never considered employees of the club or the band "leader"..now that is not the case..the paperwork involved in this kind of mess wiil be overwhelming to some..so if you are considered an employee by 20 or so "gigs" you will/should get 20 or so W-2s and you have to report them to the IRS and in most cases the state your in..if you have worked in several states you then have to file for each state..
if your considered an independent contractor and are issued a 1099 at years end..you will have to reconcile your tax libality with the withholding ..FICA & Medicare..State tax & Disability insurance and other taxes that may be owed..so if you get 20 of these forms..your going to be filling out forms for a few hours...and double check your math..or the FED/State may make you fill out additional forms to correct it...
so keeping records/paper work is going to take time and effort on your part..what a nightmare..
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Originally Posted by AlsoRan
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Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo
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Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo
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Originally Posted by Zina
wolf can see it now...bringing your guitar to the refilling station..."give me 30K of super high speed notes..."
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Originally Posted by fep
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What could go wrong
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California wants to control your life, because they think you be too stupid to control it yerself. Just pay your taxes and enjoy heaven.
RIP Nick Gravenites
Today, 05:48 PM in The Players