The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by TLerch
    then I realized my eyes/brain were making visual decisions not musical ones. I realized I didn't need to look at that damn thing anymore and in fact the music flows better and more intuitively when I don't look, I know where all the sounds are so I don't need to look!
    Looks like you finally caught me.

    What you said is exactly why I wanted to put this thread up in the first place. The same thing happens to me--but my musical choices are far less advanced and true. Closing your eyes isn't about showing off or ignoring the audience. It's about making the ear to finger connection stronger and overriding the eye to finger connection. I can only close my eyes when I feel comfortable with the people I'm playing with--it's not a way to escape in a shy knee jerk reaction kinda way.

    There's aural pathways that light up when you close your eyes and mute your visual senses. Some might say that closing your eyes essentially closes you off to the rest of the band. If your ears get sensitive enough, and the other rhythm section players really know how to play song form--you won't miss your cue to end your solo.

    Now, if I could close my eyes and play accompaniment... that's the next frontier. That's my goal, to connect with everyone on the bandstand when I play accompaniment--not to play memorized grips that sound good together. One day... What do you think, Tim?

    I always found those videos of Ted Greene explaining harmony while improvising 4 part Bach Chorales on the guitar to be utterly AMAZING. I think, I can't say for sure, but I think he was able to do that because he studied the Chorales so closely that he could hear how they manifested themselves onto the fret board. I might be wrong, though.
    Last edited by Irez87; 07-06-2019 at 03:07 AM.

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  3. #77

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    Single notes I prefer not to look at the fingerboard. Closing my eyes makes me concentrate even more and it is effective. Unfortunately I don't feel as though I can do the same with chording. It is a goal, however.

  4. #78

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    I can only say that the greatest jazz guitar solo I ever saw live was Jimmy Raney playing "Lover Come Back To Me".
    When he played that solo, he wasn't looking at the guitar; he had his eyes closed, but he wasn't looking down. He looked like someone having an epileptic seizure or something; it was actually painful to look at.
    But he was playing the most beautiful lines (at a fast tempo!) I've ever heard.
    He spoke about that type of thing in an interview he did with Terry Gross on NPR.
    He said jazz was all about waiting for that moment to come, when you seem to be in another state of consciousness, and the music just flows out of you. He said you have to know enough about music to be able to play a good solo; for when you can't reach that state, but those few times that you do reach that state (for lack of a better word) are what jazz is all about. He seemed to infer that you can't just turn it off and on; it has to come to you.
    Stan Getz (who Raney played with in the 50s) called it the alpha state.

  5. #79
    sgcim, I'm not comparing myself to Jimmy Raney (though, HE's the influence I would love other people hear in MY playing--then I would be free of...well, you know...) But I think I've gotten into that alpha state before--but my lines never come close to Stan Getz or Jimmy Raney.

    After I really get into a solo, I feel disoriented and dizzy. It's almost as if I'll faint--and that's not an overstatement. But when I'm in that state (it might be alpha or something else) everything else stops. It's just me and the music around me. I can't feel my legs, or my arms--and my everything becomes focused on my sense of hearing. It's really weird.

    HOWEVER--here's what separates me from Raney and Getz (besides, well, everything )-- when I get into that state, I get OVER excited. I loose track of the groove and of the architecture of my lines. IE, I lose my FOCUS. We spoke about this in another thread, but I need to work on my concentration when I enter that "state". It's not a matter of focusing on the notes or anything like that. It's just a matter of focusing on being PRESENT--in the groove, in the context of the rest of the band, and within the overall sound of everything and everyone on the bandstand.

  6. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by Irez87
    sgcim, I'm not comparing myself to Jimmy Raney (though, HE's the influence I would love other people hear in MY playing--then I would be free of...well, you know...) But I think I've gotten into that alpha state before--but my lines never come close to Stan Getz or Jimmy Raney.

    After I really get into a solo, I feel disoriented and dizzy. It's almost as if I'll faint--and that's not an overstatement. But when I'm in that state (it might be alpha or something else) everything else stops. It's just me and the music around me. I can't feel my legs, or my arms--and my everything becomes focused on my sense of hearing. It's really weird.

    HOWEVER--here's what separates me from Raney and Getz (besides, well, everything )-- when I get into that state, I get OVER excited. I loose track of the groove and of the architecture of my lines. IE, I lose my FOCUS. We spoke about this in another thread, but I need to work on my concentration when I enter that "state". It's not a matter of focusing on the notes or anything like that. It's just a matter of focusing on being PRESENT--in the groove, in the context of the rest of the band, and within the overall sound of everything and everyone on the bandstand.
    It took years of playing every day and night for Getz and Raney to get where they got. How many people have that 'luxury' today?

  7. #81
    Why not just love and appreciate the journey?

    Music takes a lifetime to learn, and another lifetime to play what you've learned.

    That sounds exciting to me, to be forever learning.

  8. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by Irez87
    Why not just love and appreciate the journey?

    Music takes a lifetime to learn, and another lifetime to play what you've learned.

    That sounds exciting to me, to be forever learning.
    If you’re not up for that, I don’t know why you would bother with it tbh.

  9. #83

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    I usually play w my eyes closed, just easier for me, I might glance @ the board if I decide to do a sudden jump from the lower to the upper register, etc.
    Sometimes I kinda wish I made more eye contact w the audience but it's just not in me I guess.
    Way back in the day that's what people were taught, make a connection to the audience not just w your music, but your eyes as well.
    Might get more of a crowd response that way, but won't improve your playing.

    btw, not a fan of PM, Sco, Frizzell or Rosenwinkle, so flame away!

  10. #84

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    What I don't do, and what I don't like others doing is the little too overly expressive head bobbing, head shaking, weird mouth shapes, eye rolling...”

    I agree with this comment. I saw Jonathan Krisberg live at a club in NYC and the onanistic facial gymnastics were too much for me. I actually felt kind of embarrassed, like I was a voyeur to an intimate moment he was having with his guitar lol

    I guess he’s kind of following Scofield and Metheny’s lead on this. I had a teacher who described it as ‘giving good face’ ?

    On the other hand I find Rosenwinkel very restrained and refreshingly free of theatrics (which is amazing for the intense level that he plays at).

  11. #85

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    Quote Originally Posted by b0b
    What I don't do, and what I don't like others doing is the little too overly expressive head bobbing, head shaking, weird mouth shapes, eye rolling...”

    I agree with this comment. I saw Jonathan Krisberg live at a club in NYC and the onanistic facial gymnastics were too much for me. I actually felt kind of embarrassed, like I was a voyeur to an intimate moment he was having with his guitar lol

    I guess he’s kind of following Scofield and Metheny’s lead on this. I had a teacher who described it as ‘giving good face’ ?

    On the other hand I find Rosenwinkel very restrained and refreshingly free of theatrics (which is amazing for the intense level that he plays at).
    Quote Originally Posted by b0b
    What I don't do, and what I don't like others doing is the little too overly expressive head bobbing, head shaking, weird mouth shapes, eye rolling, and other movements that stink of affectation (not the little natural things, but the ones over the top that look as faked as a lead rock guitarist bending one long easy high note but projecting the posture, face, and image of extreme intensity of effort
    Talking to yourself much?

  12. #86

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    Sorry, double post. I was responding to comment #10 on this thread.

  13. #87

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    Quote Originally Posted by b0b
    Sorry, double post. I was responding to comment #10 on this thread.

  14. #88

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    Seems that you can positively construct your onstage persona. You can practice in front of a mirror or videotape yourself. try things, see if they look dumb or OK, make sure you're actually reacting to what your playing sounds like, it's a little subtle eyebrow raise when you nailed something, or hear something new, don't be afraid to smile when things are going well, it's contagious. Eye contact with the audience can be easy and good while announcing tunes or introducing players; that may well be enough for the folks to get an idea who you are. (I have heard of a very, very fine player getting tossed from a great orchestra job, including lots of TV work, where his convoluted faces coming from his jazz show were a terrible distraction in closeups.)
    Closed eyes at times are very cool to an audience: it's not unnattractive, and it actually will give the audience more confidence in you. You can own an audience if you make then comfortable with your first tune, make friends with them, don't try to impress them, just play your favorite opener like you're at home playing for friends who are actually listening.

  15. #89

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    Double post
    Last edited by ronjazz; 05-01-2021 at 06:54 AM.

  16. #90

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    Next topic: Reading Threads With Your Eyes Closed.

  17. #91

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    "I was wondering if anyone else closes their eyes to connect with the music when they play in performance situations. " Irez87

    Hi, I,
    I connect to music with my brain and hands. Nothing else.
    Play live . . . Marinero

  18. #92

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    I've done so much theater where I had to sight read that I tend to keep my eyes open all the time. Sometimes I'll close them during a solo but usually just play with them open and connect with someone I know in the audience and tell them to bring me another drink