The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #26

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    He should stop whingeing and just get a day job, like the other 99.999% of jazz guitarists have to. Heck, even Tal Farlow did that, and he was a guitar god when Jazz ruled the world...

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  3. #27

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    I read this on Facebook, and had two thoughts.

    First was his mention of selling out clubs and not getting return dates. I just can't understand that without there being some other factor at play here. I'm not saying he's an issue, but I can't for the life of me understand a club not booking someone who has sold them out in the past. There's something there which is being left unsaid...either by Bobby or the clubs.

    Second. The cost of of living here in the US has gone thru the roof the last 10-15 years (maybe more I suppose), with the salaries of the middle class on down not following. I don't want to get into a political rant here, but that's as much a part of it as anything else. Add to that the fact we don't have any sort of healthcare as a right(here in the US), and being someone like Bobby is a tough road. When you add those two things together, being an artist is something you just can't be anymore. Add a kid and a spouse to that, and forget about it.

    It used to be "starving artist" was a romantic idea. But the truth was you could get by and live. Not anymore.

  4. #28

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    Even the Europeans that can get a free jazz college degree and live in a country that subsidizes the jazz economy are whining about gigs. Jazz is just a shitty business choice in the whole damn food chain, from musician, to promoter, to venue, to label, to non-existing consumers....worldwide.

    What smart entrepreneur in this century ever said 'I'm going to cash in on that lucrative jazz market"?

  5. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by guitarbuddy
    I see. So figuring out sophisticated instrumental music that's also accessible to younger audiences is a matter of luck?
    Yeah, definitely. Right place, right time, right concept. Great players for sure, but that's taken as read.

    People seem to reduce everything down to black & white - oh it's talent OR luck.

    Anyone working in music realises it's BOTH.

  6. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bahnzo
    ...his mention of selling out clubs and not getting return dates...
    Maybe he was so good that they weren't buying food or drinks...

  7. #31

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    Over the years I've been a big Russell Malone fan. Used to get to see him live occasionally in Northern California, generally at venues in SF and at Yoshis in Oakland. In recent years he rarely appeared in the area. Several months ago he appeared at Yoshis and during the show he commented on the reason he'd been scarce there is that the prior management told him he didn't have "draw". Typically the top acts at Yoshis would have a multi-day run - maybe Thursday through Sunday. As great a guitarist as Russell is I can kinda understand the difficulty selling out 4 days at Yoshis.

    Albert

  8. #32

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    There is so much greatness in jazz for musicians, people who love improvisation. Greatness in Classical music as well.
    Lifetime of learning.

    But the average person/majority of people simply don't care. They're not musicians. Couldn't care less.

    The Sheeple would rather listen to EDM(tired 'techno' beats with melodies we'd be embarrassed to play on guitar), rap, and Bro country.

  9. #33

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    Tbh you don't hear Peter Bernstein complaining about his situation do you? He just gets on with it.

  10. #34

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    Jeez, the guy opens his mouth once in a 40 year career and he's "complaining." Tough crowd.

  11. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by don_oz
    Tbh you don't hear Peter Bernstein complaining about his situation do you? He just gets on with it.
    I think we all know why. It’s because he plays a Zeidler!
    Last edited by AKA; 03-12-2019 at 10:58 AM.

  12. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    Jeez, the guy opens his mouth once in a 40 year career and he's "complaining." Tough crowd.
    First off, he's a legend and an amazing player. No doubt about that. Seems like a great guy too.
    He's talked about how he's had the chance to travel the US and other countries and play in world renowned venues, how many guitarists can say they've done that, especially with jazz. Maybe it's not down to the venues, maybe he needs to change his approach, after all, the times move forward and unfortunately social media rules the world. Maybe it's the time for him to change the way he markets himself. Plus, posting something like this and naming venues probably doesn't help him with this situation either.

  13. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    Rock's already dead, if you ask me. Mining the same ground it has for 40 years. Greta Van Fleet and all that.

    Rap's pretty healthy...I think we'll see it around for a good while. It keeps going through different phases, the stuff popular with kids now sounds different than it did 10 years ago, which sounded different than the popular stuff 10 years before that.

    My Jazz is dead, fix it applies directly to this thread, and I certainly agree that rock is in peril. All you gotta do nowadays is get a keyboard and soak the vocals in reverb. But what do I know.

  14. #38

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    Makaya McCraven Isn’t Interested in Saving Jazz – Rolling Stone

    Interesting article regarding Bobby Broom’s organ trio drummer. My nephew turned me onto Makaya but it took me a few listens to get into it but now I really like it. Check out his drumming with Bobby. It really propels the group with great energy. Good stuff.

    Makaya’s take on the modern day Jazz musician is pretty cool.

  15. #39

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    I understand his plight, but the problems with the industry are not limited to jazz guitarists. My wife runs a new, mid-size venue, and I hear all about what sells, what doesn't, the cost of running a place, ticket prices, the talent, and sometimes, scummy booking agents, and worse, rude, misbehaving patrons.

    It's true, though, that jazz just doesn't draw the crowds or command the ticket prices. Americana, kid's programs, indy rock, even comedy, are all more popular.

  16. #40

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    It’s twitching. We need another miles Davis. Don’t get me wrong there are some great players about. The form has to change.

    I don’t want to hear someone doing kind of bitches brew again. But the attitude miles had. The flecktones had it. Metheny and Holdsworth had it. But the broader conversation doesn’t include them for some reason

    As a guitarist who is not a jazz purist I can see some of the issues. I liked that interview. Thanks for posting.


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    Last edited by dlew919; 11-15-2020 at 04:22 AM.

  17. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bflat
    Makaya McCraven Isn’t Interested in Saving Jazz – Rolling Stone

    Interesting article regarding Bobby Broom’s organ trio drummer. My nephew turned me onto Makaya but it took me a few listens to get into it but now I really like it. Check out his drumming with Bobby. It really propels the group with great energy. Good stuff.

    Makaya’s take on the modern day Jazz musician is pretty cool.
    He's so good! I'm lucky to hear him live so often, including the experts from this show Drummer Makaya McCraven brings Universal Beings to Chicago : NPR

    The label he's on is consistently putting out forward moving music. Pretty much anything they put out is worth listening to Music | International Anthem

  18. #42

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    I am not comparing Broom's musicianship with these people, but it's a similar situation.

    https://www.vulture.com/2019/04/how-...=pocket-newtab

  19. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woody Sound
    I am not comparing Broom's musicianship with these people, but it's a similar situation.

    How Indie Artists Actually Make Money in 2019
    Yeah it's really worth remembering that these issues are affecting every area of music, it's just we see it in the areas we are working in, or most knowledgeable about.

    It might not be immediately obvious, but the decline of recording royalties is a big deal for the performance side, because it means live music has to be directly monetised. You can't for instance, pay the band out of your royalties and direct sales because ... there aren't any. People used to comfortable with tours not making money, for instance.

    This graph puts that decline in revenue in sharp focus:
    Visualizing 40 Years of Music Industry Sales

    Now, bear in mind the chart gives total sales revenue. If I understand it correctly this chart does not give revenue paid for musicians. So, given the music sales uptick in 2017 is in streaming, and digital sales accounts for the majority (80%+) of sales, and that the cut musicians receive from those sales is much smaller that from physical media, one can perhaps understand why being a professional performing musician full time is increasingly impossible.

    I do see some scope for being a cottage industry, focussing on direct sales, small gigs, word of mouth and community building, which suits jazz musicians in some ways.

    But, the more the musician has to do in terms of promotion, admin and so on, the less time to work on music.

    BTW, if people think this affects only the 'wannabes' or those who should choose a different career, every professional musician tells a similar story.

    Scott Henderson for instance describes a tours as increasingly hard - one having to play the same day as arrival (with all the risks that entails, missing flights etc) and the physical and mental toll that touring without rest days takes. Also he used to be able to bring his own soundman, and now has to regular contend with awful sound on gigs. And so on... Everything is getting more and more squeezed.

    (I think the majority of people will recognise that feeling, whether or not they have much sympathy for successful musician lol.)

    Anyway, if this goes on, your favourite musicians may well reluctantly decide to give up touring, and concentrate purely on teaching, especially online teaching courses which seems to be the main way established players generate that all important passive income these days.

    So, streaming is killing live music too. I don't think musicians are in a strong bargaining position to get a bigger cut, though.
    Last edited by christianm77; 04-11-2019 at 07:59 AM.

  20. #44

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    You know..

    it happened so that I communicate a lot with so-called 'normal people'... I do not mean that everybody should play jazz or enjoy reading Faulkner but still there should be some sensibility for true values - even if you do not have enough will or interest to go deep into that - but still to respect, support, show interest...
    My granddad was like that .. he was a common guy who dedicated all to the family but he always respected artistic people and put them very high, he thought they make our world better.

    But there ar enot so mayne people like that... most watch tv, go to restaurants, do routine and at the end - to their big surprise -they just die.

    they do not care about anything really except buying new wardrobe, iPhone or going Thailand next week.


    I happened so that I can touch both worlds... this and the artistic one - often quite the opposite (sometimes too much opposite - well you can clean your appartment at least once in a while))

    And lately I noticed that the world today really belongs to that 1st group of normal people... and the road looks like me and a small quantity of people like me gradually move further and further from the rest of the big world... more and more... we become a sort of aliens there (so far not considered dangerous).

    They have other things in focus: it is not that they want entertainmen - but even the idea of what is entertament is different, and it seems often so primitive that it scares even.

    To be honest... I do not want to get too much deeper into that... but the only way to come over it is some kind of crucial financial reformation of society. Which I am afraid is not possible without big social colapses.
    It is stuck too much into monetization of everything and consumers' society came really to a crisis point.
    For some period it was great to have dollar as an equivalent of value for everything (especially when there was oppsition to USSR fro example).... but times change... in many European country financial policy became much more socially focused than purel market-oriented.

    In other words - people who have power should really understand or feel that there are things that valuable not because they bring money.
    Like those guys in Ancient greece and Renaissance who - being 'bankers' or 'merchants' - invested huge money into real art becasue it had value for them, it did not bring money back, only respect, only spiritual pleasure.

    that is why by the way I am supporting streaming and more open access to artistic world in modern days becasue I do not believe that trying to imply old rules that were applicable to material objects to teh modern flows of information is just unprodactive and turns artists into neurotic salesmen who try to sell everyt page in aevery way and check all the time if it is on torrents or on scribdl already or not.
    thre should be some other solution.

  21. #45

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    It came to me suddely...

    some time ago a read a few books by Varlam Shalamov - probably one of the most original and powerful writers in the second half of the 20th cetury.
    there was a short introduction written by himself where he discussed the situation in literature (consider it was in 60s in Russia but he read a lot and knew leterature well)....
    so he mentioned Faulkner and that Faulner's novel is probably the last great novel art in European leterature... and the form holds firm only with great effort and gift and poweful will of the auther.
    Note that Faulkner did not sell well during his lifetime.. and even after Nobel (and even after his death) - and this is though he is way higher than all the Hemingways that ever existed...

    then he discusses interesting idea.. he speaks about the writer who has a diferrent main profession or specific experince- first in focus was Exupery who was a pilot... and himself with long Gulag experience which he manged to melt into really artistic universe (that Solzhenitsyn never did)...

    Whether he is right as a result or not - I do not want to judge now .. (but i have to say taht a few worthy writers taht I found in the 2nd half of the 20th century really had these features)...


    He siad that the writer should be amateur and be professional in spome other area today.... it is a good idea partly becasue professional writiung was really exhausted by the moment mostly and turned into copying rather than creating.

    You can be anything - professional pilot like Saint-Ex or professional drunkard like Bukowski... everything workds.. but you should be something else.

    It cannot be aplied to music directly of course (maybe to composition to some degree) - first becasue writer can write anywhere and anytime practically...
    Musicians must practice and play the instrument, and have gigs to communicate with other players and auduence - otherwise they do not grow.. all this takes time... lots of time.. that the writer does not really need so specially...

    But still I notice more and more that when I meet my pro players friend that they say that there appears some new cathegory of amateur musicians that have quite high skills (often even pro education in music) but do something different for life and at the same time lead some like a seond life of a serious hobbyist... even playing gigs and so on.

    An dthey of ten say that it is a great pleasure to play with them because they show much more dedication and are really relaxed about money issues.

    The biggest problem is that it is very mixed and it is not easy to identify - lets say so - a high level amateur from just a an ever beginner or something...
    Another problem is that these amateurs do not have time to participate activele in pro musical life and thus they always stay mostly out of it though they could benifite an dcontribute a lot from it...

    On teh other hand when there are more than just a few of them they begin to make a sort of society of their own that becoems a bit independent form pro players... they play for pleasure... rehearse when it is convinient for them and have gigs without hunting much for them.

    I saw a jazz quartet of very high level formed like that... the problem begins when they get invited to some serious events an dthey come to the point where they have to choose if they go into pros or skeep status quo..
    the last may lead to the situation taht they actually lose status quo even becasue they will not be cosidered as really serious...

    But if there is going to be enough of them - there is a chance actually that they will establish some kind of comunity intependent enough to support it...

    What I am tryoing to say maybe this kind of amateurship is the solution to support the living musical language, life etc. who knows?

  22. #46

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    Great post, Jonah (as always - now if only your spell checker would work Bobby Broom and the State of Jazz)

    Basically you describe the situation I‘m in. I have a day job that I‘m even good at, and make music for my enjoyment at a fairly high level (so I fancy myself - but why be modest? Better than most non-professionals out there). Sometimes I make a little money, but I don‘t need to.

    Last weekend, I organized the second concert of music in my town with musicians that are about my level, including at least three who have a degree in (classical) music, but who work other jobs. Money wasn‘t a consideration, what we took in we donated.

    At the same time, the professionals around here pretty much keep to themselves. I couldn‘t imagine being hired as guitarist for any of their productions.

    I live in a small town now, but it wasn‘t much different when I was in Berlin.


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  23. #47

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    I agree Jonah, I don't think you can hold back the tide. It's more that some people who are perhaps not totally in touch with live music (from the comments above) might think the situation is better for some.

    I'm not against streaming. It is (IMO) morally abhorrent that musicians are not paid a better cut from streaming. It's not something that would be impossible to rectify, it would just require tech to make less of a profit.

    However, whatever the morals are, we are not in much of a position to negotiate. Taylor Swift is in a position to negotiate, but not us schlubs :-)

    Also, I don't think many people outside of music have much sympathy. Few people really have an idea that non-famous professional musicians exist, let alone that they are not wealthy. So they just assume it's entitled whining pop stars.

    OTOH withdrawing our labour won't make a difference, because Spotify has plenty of tunes already :-) Music is massively oversupplied with respect to demand.

    So, here we are.

    But - it's something most jobs and professions face short term or long term. It's dawning on people, slowly, that we may need a different social model to the work to live model created by the industrial revolution. Other jobs may be created by tech of course....

    I think inflated claims are made about UBI, but I think it would be great for musicians.
    Last edited by christianm77; 04-12-2019 at 04:00 AM.

  24. #48

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    Great post, Jonah (as always - now if only your spell checker would work )
    Thanks.. and sorry for spelling, it actually drives me crazy - I can't figure out how to fix it... before it adjusted all in a strange way like 'hear' to 'here' and now it does not work at all..

  25. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    I agree Jonah, I don't think you can hold back the tide. It's more that some people who are perhaps not totally in touch with live music (from the comments above) might think the situation is better for some.

    I'm not against streaming. It is (IMO) morally abhorrent that musicians are not paid a better cut from streaming. It's not something that would be impossible to rectify, it would just require tech to make less of a profit.

    However, whatever the morals are, we are not in much of a position to negotiate. Taylor Swift is in a position to negotiate, but not us schlubs :-)

    Also, I don't think many people outside of music have much sympathy. Few people really have an idea that non-famous professional musicians exist, let alone that they are not wealthy. So they just assume it's entitled whining pop stars.

    OTOH withdrawing are labour won't make a difference, because Spotify has plenty of tunes already :-) Music is massively oversupplied with respect to demand.

    So, here we are.

    But - it's something most jobs and professions face short term or long term. It's dawning on people, slowly, that we may need a different social model to the work to live model created by the industrial revolution. Other jobs may be created by tech of course....

    I think inflated claims are made about UBI, but I think it would be great for musicians.
    I just came to the point that I probably live in a world on my own.. in the past I tried to be curious/tolerant about people and their opinions and so on... now I do not care. If idiots are idionts it is their life. But in modern world everyone has the right to be an idiot, but no-one can tell him about it .. so some people I know seem to begin to think I am almost a fascist... so I have to keep the mouth shut.

    but in general it is what I fell like...
    even if there are only 8-10 people in that world of mine - it is big enough and I do not care what other millions do (unless they start shooting at me or my family)...

    I have a friend - probably greatest living composer now - he is older than me, about 50 now (a family man, quite active socially, not just meditating artistic hermit) - in my opinion he does unique things, he is being performed of course, not totally neglected... but in comparison to what it deserves it is nothing...

    He lives in another city but we communicate all the time... he says that last year he is mostly in two conditions: suddenly and briefly excited (mostly it is about experiencing music - not all, or arts), and the rest of the time almost asleep (physically because he is terribly tired mostly)...

    It seems I amd getting close to this condition gradually too...

    But it's another topic maybe)

  26. #50

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    I also thought maybe it depends on the player's (his manager's) strategy too... and how he can coordicate his ambition for gigs and the market demand.

    Bobby Broom and his group are very subtle and sophisticated players but at the same time they have quite conventional format.. they can have bigger audience and probably are eager to have it, an dprobably try to look in the places they think appropriate for that.

    I am subscribed on FB to some guitarists' pages (like Frisell, Lage, Lund, Sco etc) and I get notifications.

    For example Bill Frisell tours very intensively... I believe in the scope of the whole world his potential audience is much smaller than that of Broom...

    But at the same time in some college campus - who knows? - it is possible that Bill would attract more people.

    If you look at the venues where he plays it is very often very modest chamber-style places in remote parts of the States - it is really for quiete contemplative audience, not for a cocktail club soft jazz dancing.

    I believe that Bill does not earn huge money with that but still he is on the road all the time in contact with live performance and live audience (which he obviously enjoys)

    What I am trying to say is that probably correct management of your ampitions is also very important, especially in this ever changing world.

    Bobby says that according to billboard and statistics from streamimg there are quite a lot of people who like and listen to this music, maybe the good move for a good manager is to find out who are these people and where they live and go to listen to music.
    I am not sure of course... but maybe it is time also to break a barrier too... maybe people who wants to listen to him just go to different places?
    Maybe today it's the same people who listen to Bill Frisell with Petra Haden?