The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #26

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gitfiddler
    Have any of you witnessed or were the victim of "cutting" at a live performance? ... [snip]
    Obviously, I don't know what was running through those guys' minds, but what you describe does not sound like an attempt to cut you down to size. It sounds more like they assumed you had some basic jazz knowledge and knew the tune. Green Dolphin Street is a basic tune, typically one that players learn pretty early on in their development; if you step onto a jazz group's bandstand (even on a smooth jazz/R&B gig), it's one you'd be expected to know.

    I've been going to jams off and on since I was maybe 18 or so (I'm now somewhere north of 193 ...). At jazz jams, I don't think I've experienced cutting in the sense of people deliberately outplaying others in order to put them in their place or embarrass them. But I have experienced "vibing", which is more people assuming you suck and giving you the stink eye before the first note is even played, treating you like an outsider to the scene, and/or scolding you publicly if you don't keep up, that sort of thing. Cutting in the sense of competing, I've seen it between horn players, but because there's typically only one guitarist on the stand not between guitarists; it's typically relatively friendly, though, since it's usually among people who know each other.

    I'd say blues is a slightly different story. There tends to be more ego and more of a silly "gunslinger" attitude. It's also more common for there to be a mix of good players and not-so-good players (who are often clueless about their limitations) and/or beginners. I've seen that lead to some less than friendly interactions, and attempts to play someone off the stage. Also, a sort of reverse cutting/vibing -- e.g., calling something other than a completely generic 12 bar shuffle (like a 10-bar form, or a "jazz" blues form, or Stormy Monday changes) and having people who can't hang with that get angry about it.


    John

  4. #28

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    i think it would be fun to have a video cutting contest on here. two people square up and take the same tune for a certain amount of time and record two choruses or something. then we vote. I guess you'd need some confidence to take part

  5. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    It’s 2:30am on the Ronnie Scott’s main stage and the vibey and very good American singer has just called Round Midnight in G
    Funny little sonny stitt annecdote I saw recently. A singer can't remember her name off of the top of my head right now called embracebale you in E major. She asked sonny where that puts the sax to which he replied 'that puts the sax back in the case'

    Laughed my arse off for a good 10 mins at that.

  6. #30

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    Seeing how this is a jazz forum, calling Green Dolphin Street and handing someone a real book that doesn't require transposing doesn't strike me as cutting in the slightest.

  7. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by joe2758
    i think it would be fun to have a video cutting contest on here. two people square up and take the same tune for a certain amount of time and record two choruses or something. then we vote. I guess you'd need some confidence to take part
    How about the song from the OP? Green dolphin street? I'll be up for this, but in a fun way nothing to serious. It'll be good to see what you guys got!

  8. #32

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    i'd like to nominate anyone except for me to take on donnie osmond here

  9. #33

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    Another cutting story, around the same time as when I got cut playing all the things in my previous post, I got cut playing yesterday's by a Canadian trumpet player who over heard me and my friend trying to figure out what tune to play when we were up next. He heard us say say yeah let's play yesterday's. Just to me and my friends luck we got on to the stand with him. You guessed it. He called yesterday's at around 240 BPM. Played great bop over it. It came to me. D minor pentatonic scale, my good old friend, we meet again.

  10. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by joe2758
    i think it would be fun to have a video cutting contest on here. two people square up and take the same tune for a certain amount of time and record two choruses or something. then we vote. I guess you'd need some confidence to take part
    We get some of the flavor of this via threads on various tunes and study groups. Mixed feelings about explicitly calling it a cutting contest -- this could degenerate into weirdness and hurt feelings, or it could be pretty cool. First tune would, obviously, have to be Green Dolphin Street. I'm not saying my vote would be for sale, but ...

    John

  11. #35

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    John A vs. Donnie Osmond. Green Dolphin st. Head and two choruses. video due 11/27. FIGHT

  12. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by joe2758
    John A vs. Donnie Osmond. Green Dolphin st. Head and two choruses. video due 11/27. FIGHT
    Sure, after all I am a little bit country.

    John

  13. #37

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    Let's. Get. It. On!

  14. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by coolvinny
    Seeing how this is a jazz forum, calling Green Dolphin Street and handing someone a real book that doesn't require transposing doesn't strike me as cutting in the slightest.
    To be clear, one must look at context as well as the time frame of events I stated.

    I was invited to sit in with a smooth jazz band that also played contemporary RnB and Pop.
    The keyboard player was being an ass from the start. None of the subsequent tunes were quite as challenging (for me) as GDS. As stated, I had never heard of the song. Once into it, I was able to find my way through that chart, but it was a challenge and a very stressful way to start a gig.

    The performance was two 1 hour sets, and afterwards, I was told by the promoter that I did a good job. The rest of the band agreed, but the keyboard player remained aloof.

    For me it was an intimidating situation, so maybe it wasn't technically cutting. I've seen worse...much worse treatment done to other guitarists over the years. What the experience did was motivate me to dig more into jazz standards, seek lessons and join jazz guitar forums to gather additional insight. Unfortunately, egos get in the way in the latter, and a few dismissive comments detract from otherwise constructive commentary. Its all good. This is still a great forum and a decent discussion of a behavior (cutting) that guitarists might experience during their journey into playing jazz.

  15. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo
    Haha oh man we were so obssesed with this movie! Just in case I had to learn that Paganini caprice exactly how Vai played it, if it ever comes to a guitar battle...

    Btw a friend of mine from Russia sent me a link to a show called Guitar Battle, apparently it's a thing now over there, they do the whole show with judges and stuff, two guitarists battle in 3 rounds. It's weird and stupid, but entertaining kinda.

  16. #40

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    Just trying to give you a reality check in efforts to help you, but I give up.

  17. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by John A.
    Sure, after all I am a little bit country.

    John
    Gonna be fun!

  18. #42

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    You do realise it's important to have zero taste or musicality in these examples? Just NOTES. Lots and lots of NOTES.

  19. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by don_oz
    Gonna be fun!
    Donnie, wrong answer. You're supposed to say "I'm a little bit rock and roll".

    Sheesh. Kids today ...

    - Marie

  20. #44

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    What about 'I will crush you like a bug?'

  21. #45

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    I kill you with my jazz

  22. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by John A.
    Donnie, wrong answer. You're supposed to say "I'm a little bit rock and roll".

    Sheesh. Kids today ...

    - Marie
    i think donnie was born in like 2010

  23. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by joe2758
    i think donnie was born in like 2010
    So you're telling me that I'm now on the hook for public humiliation over my lack of chops because of some toddler's failure to grok 70s TV references? Sweet.

    - Wojo

  24. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by John A.
    So you're telling me that I'm now on the hook for public humiliation over my lack of chops because of some toddler's failure to grok 70s TV references? Sweet.

    - Wojo
    hahahahaha literally lold at that one.

  25. #49

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    To me, "cutting', short for 'cutting contest' has always referred to a line of soloists, usually all on the same instrument, trying to outdo each other in the eyes (ears?) of the audience and/or fellow musicians. A bunch of trumpeters reaching for higher and higher notes, a bunch of saxophonists trying to pack as many notes as possible into a bar of "Cherokee, up a half step each chorus".

    There are certainly challenges, and potential for conflict, when you have folk with different repertoire, experience and ability sharing a bandstand, but I don't know if there's a particular word for it...

    PK

  26. #50

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    It's always fucking Cherokee. (Cos it's not actually that hard. UNLESS you are bass player.)