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christian is posting cries for help i think someone should challenge him to cherokee
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11-20-2018 07:18 PM
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The way I recall it the word derives from stories, probably apocryphal, that a better stride pianist would walk into a club, outplay the current pianist and win the gig.
The idea of competition at a jam doesn't bother me a bit. No different than playing a round of golf with friends. You want to show your best game. Friendly competition.
But, there can be situations in which people can try to make things harder for another player to the point of sabotage.
The bob pioneers reportedly developed some aspects of bop as a way to keep less skilled musicians off the stand. Supposedly, they'd do things like substitute the bridge from one tune into another and not tell the guy they were testing or screwing with. If he could hear it, he had a chance of getting into the "club".
I have also experienced a pianist I'd never met acting cold even before I plugged in. I've always wondered if the pianist was just annoyed by having to deal with another chord instrument.
The last time I went to a jam, which was the first time I'd met that leader, he was kind enough to ask me what I wanted to play.
Two tunes, then somebody else's turn. This was at a restaurant bar with an audience. The leader had no incentive to make me sound bad.
But, the last time I sat in with a group, they called all the tunes. I knew some and not others. It was up to me to figure out what to play. Fortunately, IRealPro had them all, I could transpose to their key (only necessary once, I think) and I was able to balance the phone on my leg. It would feel funny to sit in and bring a music stand.
The last time I played casual, the leader made a folder of charts in advance. He didn't mind the reading and he didn't want to deal with people remembering the tune differently or forgetting it or anything else having a chart might prevent (arguably, including playing better jazz <g>).
One last point. At a gig where I was the leader, we're playing a tune and some guy in the audience gets out of his chair carrying a trombone and starts soloing. I was upset about it and let him know. I found out later that the bassist had okayed it without telling me. So, as it turned out, I had no reason to angry at the trombonist. As far as I know, the trombonist never found that out. He'd already left, probably with a low opinion of me. So, there might be some hidden reason for a player acting cold.
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Originally Posted by John A.
Originally Posted by joe2758
You guys are hilarious! Lmao Originally Posted by John A.
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Cherokee? You got my attention now. Who wants it?
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I'm in. 280bpm. And be forewarned, I'm gonna tell "yo mama" jokes as I play.
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sweet. mr b vs hep cherokee. head and 2 choruses. vid due in 1 week
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A week? I'll be up tomorrow. If you don't already know Cherokee a week ain't gonna help.
(Am I "cutting" right? It just feels like I'm being mean. It's kinda fun.)
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that’s just plain hurtful. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
lol pressure on Hep!
i feel like the jazz guitar don king and it just sorta feels right
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Here I am blowing on Cherokee four years ago, with a two year old sitting on my knee. Who wants some?
(Jeez, this is the wankiest thing I ever recorded)
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That’s up to you, I hope you didn't take my post the wrong way. Originally Posted by Gitfiddler
If you can sight read basic real book changes that tune would be relatively easy.
If you aren't able to you have the choice to wing it, or lay out. If you're an intermediate or better jazz player you'll be better prepared to wing a tune.
Just a suggestion, if you're not familiar w basic standards/ jazz tunes, listen to/learn as many as possible, it'll help train your ear, and will really aid in sitting in.
peace...
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Awesome! Sorry I can't do tomorrow, it's a busy day, and not like I need time to learn the tune lol! I can do it on Thursday though, or over the weekend.
I suggest a backing track, a same one, to level the field. But solo guitar to metronome is ok too, only then it would be more chordy in my case.
280bpm is fun!
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I too have an old one, more a transcription than my own improv, but my own one will be prolly pretty close it anyway.
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Thank you for the comment, and pardon my initial abrupt reply. Again, in my original post I mentioned that the 'Green Dolphin' gig took place 10 years ago. Originally Posted by wintermoon
I learned from that situation, and have since advanced in my jazz guitar studies. That however, is a never ending effort. Having recently retired I now have more time to focus on the nuances of jazz guitar, as well as many other interests.
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I think it's very easy to find yourself in a musical situation that you haven't encountered before and have no way to understand.
Like a jam session is playing Cantaloupe Island and you figure you can play it, so why not sit in?
Then, the next call is Dolphin Dance, no book (or you couldn't read anyway) and you can't play it.
Or, some very sophisticated players start messing around during the tune and suddenly it ain't Kansas anymore.
The challenge is to see this as a positive, no matter how well or badly you play. It's exposure to something that may be new. If you're interested in whatever aspect of music it represents, it can be motivating, goal-setting, life-changing or not.
For the OP who suddenly encountered GDS, you probably know more about jam session culture and etiquette now than you did before it happened. New musicianship skills -- because there is a lot to know that isn't simply playing your instrument.
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Cute kid plus lots of notes plus so many fretboard markers wtf. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
Solid work
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I want in on cherokee
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"Again, in my original post I mentioned that the 'Green Dolphin' gig took place 10 years ago"
Sorry, I missed that.
I'm pretty sure you can play it backwards by now!
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damn osmond coming after you all like it's lunch time Originally Posted by don_oz
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Hey Don King, how about you find us a good backing track, 280bpm? That'd be nice, set it all up proper... Everyone can crack jokes, but promoters work hard, ya know... Originally Posted by joe2758
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I got 2 for GDS, and 3 for cherokee. I'll make the voting poll posts when i get all the vids
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Yea, sounds good! Originally Posted by joe2758
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The Cherokee track is a little too slow.
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i'll find a faster one when you throw your hat in the ring Originally Posted by christianm77
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osmond said you're scared
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I like playing on GDS. I can think of lines to play and can play them.
OTOH, for Cherokee, I think of lines to play and I can't play them because they're too fast. I can stumble though it with dotted whole notes or something, but it won't be what is in my head
And, for a cutting contest, it's important to know when not to play.
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Only way to play fast is practice playing fast Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
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I'm in favor of anything that will increase the amount of PLAYING THE GUITAR on this forum. Seems like we're in a down-cycle on folks posting samples of their playing. I'm a virtuoso talker, but pretty much a hack player, and I love to hear the range of ability and accomplishment on this forum, from beginners to pros. This cutting thing, all joking aside, promises to show what the high-end of our talent, or at least, our confidence, can do.
I'll not be posting on this thread, which means everyone will have at least one thing for which to be thankful this week!
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I could probably manage that Green Dolphin Street thing, but not Cherokee at 305. My limit is about 240.
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graham you can join in gds by insulting either john a or donnie osmond
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Ok but as far as insults go I’ve only ever managed about 10 ipm.
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.... they synced it as best as they could, with Charlie Parker almost cracking up halfway through and almost getting Hawkins to cave too before someone off-stage tells him to knock it off.
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Some misinformed person on the TGP forum said this film showed Bird 'mocking' Hawkins for being old-fashioned! Obviously they had no idea of the true context or why Bird was fooling around.
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This thread called this interview to mind.
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Not quite shreddy enough to be true 'cutting' and not quite tasteful enough to be actual music, here is my opening salvo:
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While I've never been the victim of what I would call "intentional cutting", I've certainly been in lots of uncomfortable (musically speaking) situations where the tunes being called aren't familiar and my brain/hands can't quite keep up. The best part about it is that you get to make mental notes of where you couldn't hang and actually have a little more tangible feedback of what to work on.
As for GDS, I can totally understand and have certainly been in a place where that tune would've intimidated me. It helps to have been there in order to show some understanding/empathy for those who are early in their journey.
I'm embarrassed to say though that I hadn't yet touched Cherokee, let alone played at 280 bpm+ (usually prefer to practice at more 'lyrical' tempos) so this thread was a good kick in the butt to work on it a bit.
Here's my (far from perfect) take from last night after practicing some, and apologies for all the mumbling and weird sounds:
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probly the greatest jazz film ive ever seen Graham..watched it 5 times...synced an all...no ideA waht parker was doing but he was admonished by studio director to cut it out...lol
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Coleman Hawkins & Sonny Rollins - Lover Man - New York, July 15, 1963
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Ok heres mine... maybe don't listen before your turkey dinner, lost of appetite has been reported (via my gf, she's sick of this tune by now lol)
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just need the vids from beau jackson and donnie osmond and i can start the voting thread (let’s save the comments on the performances for that thread)
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MP3 Player SoundClick
Here's my shot at GDS.
I couldn't play Cherokee at that tempo.
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I have trouble HEARING Cherokee at those tempos. Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
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Sheesh, 305? I'll try an's be up tomorrow. I ain't cutting nobody at 305 though!
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At a public jam session in the city a couple of years ago, my buddy (also a guitarist) got on first after the house group had played for quite a while with some of the regulars; a couple of horn players were still on stage along with the pianist, bassist and drummer. Surprisingly, we were the only guitarists there. It was pretty clear that the pianist, there in support of another house member who was nominatively the leader, was in command and liked it that way. Soloists were mostly taking 2-3 choruses tops.
My buddy called On Green Dolphin Street in C; the pianist nodded, but then said "No, we do it in Eb" and started to vamp, and the bassist and drummer joined in. My buddy had to confess on the spot that he didn't have the head down in Eb and had to ask the horns to play it. He took a good solo, but was not otherwise really much in on the tune. On his next tune, however, Just friends, which he plays very well, he began at one point during one of the horn solos to comp solidly with some nice shell voicings and rhythms, but the pianist gave him absolutely no room to go anywhere and squeezed him out, comping the entire tune incessantly with all of his ten fingers.
I was up next and called Nostalgia in Times Square: played the head, in which the horns joined in, took the first solo and then laid back. As the second horn solo began, I imagined - foolishly - to perceive the pianist giving me an opening, so I started comping strong. As that solo went into its second chorus, I saw the pianist out of the corner of my eye suddenly stand up and walk off the stage in a huff. (Later I learned, he went to give my buddy an earful.) "Oh, well," I thought; and we finished out the tune. For my second tune, I called What is this thing called love? and played the head and two choruses in trio with bass and drums, then comped for the first horn solo, during which the pianist came back on stage. Suspecting nothing amiss, I passed the comping over to him for the next horn solo, after which he took his own solo - for about fifteen choruses, which, I have to admit, sounded so good that my hands remained stationary. Only with a final glare did he let me know when it was time for me to play the head out.
I'm sure he thought he had shown me a thing or two, which, in fact, he had, but I still laugh when I think of how that unfolded.
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And you gave a lesson in how to just hang in there and be solid. No drama. You had me grinning. We've all known pianists like that; at least it sounds like he could play. Originally Posted by Geechnyc
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He sounds like a total pianist.
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As Joe Pass said, of pianists, "He has 10 fingers, 88 keys, and he's bigger than you." Originally Posted by christianm77
Pianists illustrate the axiom that "Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely." No musician has a harder time with "less as more" than pianists.
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I guess the exception proves the rule. Bill Basie was an exceptional stride pianist, had chops like few others, but mostly played with two fingers when comping.
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"Just remember, it takes 2 great guitar players to sound like 1 very ordinary piano player"
-Barney Kessel
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